The Politics Thread 2020

[ramit]

A couple of old quotes worth keeping in mind

 

[G STAR RAM]

6 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

They are both women. And non-white. So fair game. The Patel one even looks a bit more Muslimy than Abbot so should really get more stick.

PS Snowflakes, I don't actually think non-white women are fair game. Like you do.

Why wouldn't they be fair game? 

Isnt that what equality is all about?

[G STAR RAM]

12 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Are we still mocking Diane Abbott? 

Not so much since she learned how to get dressed properly.

But yeah, she is still a very mockable character, as Patel has no doubt just become too.

[jono]

5 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Why wouldn't they be fair game? 

Isnt that what equality is all about?

You know what .. that’s a great philosophical statement. .. we are still a long way from there because of historical injustices and prejudice but I really long for an age when describing someone in humour by any simple physical description will be viewed the same. tall, short, lanky, black, white,  big eared, fat, thin .. they really should all be the same .. they aren’t but they should be. 

[ariotofmyown]

4 minutes ago, jono said:

You know what .. that’s a great philosophical statement. .. we are still a long way from there because of historical injustices and prejudice but I really long for an age when describing someone in humour by any simple physical description will be viewed the same. tall, short, lanky, black, white,  big eared, fat, thin .. they really should all be the same .. they aren’t but they should be. 

Where we are really at though is Dianne Abbot getting a disproportionate amount of stick as she is a prominent black woman in Labour.

I'm sure there are loads of good memes laughing at Nicky Morgan's lying maths on police numbers, or Rabb not knowing about Dover to Calais trade whilst Brexit minister, or Patel on bullying/lying about foreign meetings etc. I just have never seen them, nor do they get brought up on here regularly.

[maxjam]

12 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

PS Snowflakes, I don't actually think non-white women are fair game. Like you do.

I'm assuming thats not come across how you've meant it.

Surely everyone is equally open to scutiny regardless of whatever immutable characteristic - skin colour in this case, applies to them?  

When Diane Abbott gaffed stating new police officers will cost £300k, no wait £80m - she's gonna be challenged.  The same would have happened if Priti Patel or Boris Johnson had done the same.   No one should escape ridicule for getting basic maths wrong because of their skin colour.

[Archied]

Anybody else finding this keep swapping of ministers doing the update rather weirdly like a tactic to stop continuity of questions ,obviously illness apart

[MaltRam]

15 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Are we still mocking Diane Abbott? 

Yes. And Priti Patel.

As soon as she walked out to the podium suppressing a little smile and opened up like she was addressing the school council, I switched over. Abysmal politician risen miles above her capabilities, because of the requirement to be seen to be diverse rather than good.

[MaltRam]

11 hours ago, ramit said:

A couple of old quotes worth keeping in mind

 

Both good points. But. Do you think that we will not return to the same level of freedom as was held before? I think we will. Do you think the measures in place were sensible? Necessary? I think they were.

[G STAR RAM]

22 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Where we are really at though is Dianne Abbot getting a disproportionate amount of stick as she is a prominent black woman in Labour.

I'm sure there are loads of good memes laughing at Nicky Morgan's lying maths on police numbers, or Rabb not knowing about Dover to Calais trade whilst Brexit minister, or Patel on bullying/lying about foreign meetings etc. I just have never seen them, nor do they get brought up on here regularly.

It just isn't though, its completely in your head.

She gets stick because of the rubbish she comes out with, nothing to do with the colour of her skin, maybe a bit more because of the party she represents.

I think Boris gets a lot of stick. Not because he is white with a silly haircut but because he comes across as a bumbling buffoon, because he went to Eton and because of the party he represents.

 

[jono]

11 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Where we are really at though is Dianne Abbot getting a disproportionate amount of stick as she is a prominent black woman in Labour.

I'm sure there are loads of good memes laughing at Nicky Morgan's lying maths on police numbers, or Rabb not knowing about Dover to Calais trade whilst Brexit minister, or Patel on bullying/lying about foreign meetings etc. I just have never seen them, nor do they get brought up on here regularly.

I think you have a point about memes.
On the other hand how many cartoons and negative remarks do “posh” Tories get in terms of silver spoons, tax havens, country castles, duck ponds and all the rest of that sort of thing ? The other thing is that at a distance it is quite hard to be objective when we hear second hand about bullying in a political environment. It’s not quite so easy to to create that sort of pithy joke. Abbots maths things a while back were so stark that whatever your politics they were jaw dropping live theatre and way beyond a slip of the tongue. It seems she wasn’t well at the time so she has some sympathy from me in that sense but I struggle with the thought that it was only because she is black, female and Labour. Perhaps this enhanced it unfairly but it was bound to happen because the utterances themselves weren’t one offs, there was a track record

[ariotofmyown]

4 minutes ago, jono said:

I think you have a point about memes.
On the other hand how many cartoons and negative remarks do “posh” Tories get in terms of silver spoons, tax havens, country castles, duck ponds and all the rest of that sort of thing ? The other thing is that at a distance it is quite hard to be objective when we hear second hand about bullying in a political environment. It’s not quite so easy to to create that sort of pithy joke. Abbots maths things a while back were so stark that whatever your politics they were jaw dropping live theatre and way beyond a slip of the tongue. It seems she wasn’t well at the time so she has some sympathy from me in that sense but I struggle with the thought that it was only because she is black, female and Labour. Perhaps this enhanced it unfairly but it was bound to happen because the utterances themselves weren’t one offs, there was a track record

I doubt posh Tories have had many doors closed to them over the years. And whilst it could be harsh to criticise them purely for being posh or loaded, it's fair to question if their life experiences are ideal to be in government. Fair play for Johnson for pretty much making Mogg disappear after his abysmal comments on Grenfell tragedy, comments that seem to come from a profound lack of knowledge of normal life.  Telling people that it's wrong to have abortions after rape is easier if your experience is having loads of hired help to bring up children in your family.

There are still lots of people I know who just like laughing at black people for being black. Maybe their watermelon smiles are just funny. Or Indians for their funny voices or Chinese people for their different eyes. Combine this with a serious/valid criticism and you are onto a winner.

Whilst memes from the left may often laugh at the wealth of top Tories, I can't remember many that are overly focused towards non-white males. If they are created in the first place, I would hope they are not really shared. During the lockdown, I've still been sent Diane Abbott memes from comments in the past.

[GboroRam]

1 minute ago, ariotofmyown said:

I doubt posh Tories have had many doors closed to them over the years. And whilst it could be harsh to criticise them purely for being posh or loaded, it's fair to question if their life experiences are ideal to be in government. Fair play for Johnson for pretty much making Mogg disappear after his abysmal comments on Grenfell tragedy, comments that seem to come from a profound lack of knowledge of normal life.  Telling people that it's wrong to have abortions after rape is easier if your experience is having loads of hired help to bring up children in your family.

There are still lots of people I know who just like laughing at black people for being black. Maybe their watermelon smiles are just funny. Or Indians for their funny voices or Chinese people for their different eyes. Combine this with a serious/valid criticism and you are onto a winner.

Whilst memes from the left may often laugh at the wealth of top Tories, I can't remember many that are overly focused towards non-white males. If they are created in the first place, I would hope they are not really shared. During the lockdown, I've still been sent Diane Abbott memes from comments in the past.

Stop going on about Boris talking about watermelon smiles. That was ages ago. Plus, he's not been well. We need to get behind Boris, get being Britain and get behind our excellent government! Rule Brittania and God save the Queen ? 

[Eddie]

46 minutes ago, maxjam said:

I'm assuming thats not come across how you've meant it.

Surely everyone is equally open to scutiny regardless of whatever immutable characteristic - skin colour in this case, applies to them?  

When Diane Abbott gaffed stating new police officers will cost £300k, no wait £80m - she's gonna be challenged.  The same would have happened if Priti Patel or Boris Johnson had done the same.   No one should escape ridicule for getting basic maths wrong because of their skin colour.

I don't think her skin colour had anything to do with her being bad at maths - that's more of a Hermstein and Murray thing.

[Norman]

13 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

I doubt posh Tories have had many doors closed to them over the years. And whilst it could be harsh to criticise them purely for being posh or loaded, it's fair to question if their life experiences are ideal to be in government. Fair play for Johnson for pretty much making Mogg disappear after his abysmal comments on Grenfell tragedy, comments that seem to come from a profound lack of knowledge of normal life.  Telling people that it's wrong to have abortions after rape is easier if your experience is having loads of hired help to bring up children in your family.

There are still lots of people I know who just like laughing at black people for being black. Maybe their watermelon smiles are just funny. Or Indians for their funny voices or Chinese people for their different eyes. Combine this with a serious/valid criticism and you are onto a winner.

Whilst memes from the left may often laugh at the wealth of top Tories, I can't remember many that are overly focused towards non-white males. If they are created in the first place, I would hope they are not really shared. During the lockdown, I've still been sent Diane Abbott memes from comments in the past.

To be objective, you have to put the shoe on the other foot. 

I think that's the saying. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

26 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

I doubt posh Tories have had many doors closed to them over the years. And whilst it could be harsh to criticise them purely for being posh or loaded, it's fair to question if their life experiences are ideal to be in government. Fair play for Johnson for pretty much making Mogg disappear after his abysmal comments on Grenfell tragedy, comments that seem to come from a profound lack of knowledge of normal life.  Telling people that it's wrong to have abortions after rape is easier if your experience is having loads of hired help to bring up children in your family.

There are still lots of people I know who just like laughing at black people for being black. Maybe their watermelon smiles are just funny. Or Indians for their funny voices or Chinese people for their different eyes. Combine this with a serious/valid criticism and you are onto a winner.

Whilst memes from the left may often laugh at the wealth of top Tories, I can't remember many that are overly focused towards non-white males. If they are created in the first place, I would hope they are not really shared. During the lockdown, I've still been sent Diane Abbott memes from comments in the past.

Sorry, I simply don't buy this . If you do, that's a choice your making to associate with them.  Stay away from that time machine back to 1974 Marty.

[Tamworthram]

12 hours ago, ramit said:

A couple of old quotes worth keeping in mind

 

Well, IMO, the first one is in no way relevant to the current situation.

Firstly, I’m guessing he means giving up liberties permanently to purchase temporary safety. The liberties we are having to give up (shopping, travelling, visiting friends, general socialising etc) are only temporary unless you truly believe there will be some kind of police state after it’s over.

Secondly, how many of the liberties that we are having to “give up” could actually be classed as essential? Not many (if any) I’d suggest unless, once again, he meant permanently giving up.

Thirdly, is it a temporary safety we hoping for? I think and hope not. Yes, there may well be a second wave after the restrictions are lifted (although if you think they’ll not be lifted then that’s less of an concern). But, as has been said many times, the current measures are helping buy time for the health service to cope with future cases rather than being overwhelmed now.

I would suggest an alternative quote “to temporarily give up none essential liberties is a reasonable price to pay for the chance of permanent safety”

 

With regard to the second quote, yes emergencies can be such a pretext but I’m not convinced it is always the case. I am not remotely worried about any of the current measures being made permanent once the crisis is over.

[ramit]

49 minutes ago, Needlesh said:

Both good points. But. Do you think that we will not return to the same level of freedom as was held before? I think we will. Do you think the measures in place were sensible? Necessary? I think they were.

They are hardly both good points, if you add a but.  History would indicate that the answer to your first questions would be no,   After 9/11 and 7/7 for instance, new anti terrorism laws were set, removing civil liberties which were formerly held and they seem to be as permanent as the war on terror, otherwise known as the war of terror. 

It is still unproven how this pandemic we are in came about.  Some might snicker at that statement and that's their choice, but i choose to keep my options open and not blindly trust those who have repeatedly misused the trust given to them.  Perhaps these measures are sensible and i am not the fool to take any chances with the health of my loved ones, or other innocents i might infect by behaving irresponsibly.  Still, i can see how an emergency such as this could be and probably would be taken advantage of by governments and the big money behind them.

i have no intention of getting into a long discussion about this, my views are clear.

[Sith Happens]

3 minutes ago, ramit said:

They are hardly both good points, if you add a but.  History would indicate that the answer to your first questions would be no,   After 9/11 and 7/7 for instance, new anti terrorism laws were set, removing civil liberties which were formerly held and they seem to be as permanent as the war on terror, otherwise known as the war of terror. 

It is still unproven how this pandemic we are in came about.  Some might snicker at that statement and that's their choice, but i choose to keep my options open and not blindly trust those who have repeatedly misused the trust given to them.  Perhaps these measures are sensible and i am not the fool to take any chances with the health of my loved ones, or other innocents i might infect by behaving irresponsibly.  Still, i can see how an emergency such as this could be and probably would be taken advantage of by governments and the big money behind them.

i have no intention of getting into a long discussion about this, my views are clear.

I agree, we shouldn't rush any decisions,  afterall it's a marathon not a sprint 

[GboroRam]

38 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I don't think her skin colour had anything to do with her being bad at maths - that's more of a Hermstein and Murray thing.

Don’t forget looks. I'll stand up for Priti as, as has been mentioned, at least she's attractive enough to have sexual relations with. That makes up for it a bit.