The Politics Thread 2020

[Van der MoodHoover]

39 minutes ago, King Kevin said:

Very true ,I have numerous friends that had final salary schemes ,the firms that they work for no longer exist .Their pension funds have been sold  on to private institutions that so far have maintained their expected pension income .

These institutions had made a call on the fund value ,mortality rates etc when taking these schemes over ,very few things guaranteed in this sector.

Final salary schemes were never guaranteed. They were "sponsored" by the employer, and governed by independent trustees (following maxwell). Their security improved in recent years as they became a priority creditor in an insolvency situation but that's only relevant if there is a debt in the scheme. Employers only had accounting tests of solvency and "going concern" to meet.

If they've been consolidated into the financial sector they arguably have a bit more security through the UK Prudential Regulatory authority which demands minimum levels of capital retained to respond to adverse scenarios, but that stops short of being a "guarantee".

[Tamworthram]

7 minutes ago, ramit said:

Well, attention spans differ.  This guy is James Corbett and the reason i posted this after watching, is because i found the information gathered in the video rather convincing and because Corbett has a good track record of being credible and dealing with subjects in a factual manner. 

You assumed incorrectly, although i admit that i wish you hadn't.  i would not post a spoof at this time of probably the greatest social and economic upheaval in our lifetimes and no, the fairies are not going to save us all, but your garden may come in handy for you soon.

I wonder how credible his conspiracy theory over 9/11 is? We’ll never know.

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 minute ago, Tamworthram said:

Would that happen to be Norges Bank, the central bank of Norway that happens to manage the government pension fund?

it would. Managing a pension fund is not being the pension fund though, which has a distinct legal presence. So if the shares were held for the benefit of the pension fund that is whose name they would be under.

[ramit]

10 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I wonder how credible his conspiracy theory over 9/11 is? We’ll never know.

It's been over 18 years since that happened.  If you still are not aware of the gaping holes in the official account, then indeed it is likely you never will be.  The official version of the events is a conspiracy theory, you know.

However, this video is about the ongoing crisis we are all facing, so either watch the thing to the end, 15 minutes at a go if you must, or accept that you are not currently in a position to criticize it's content.

[Van der MoodHoover]

6 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

it would. Managing a pension fund is not being the pension fund though, which has a distinct legal presence. So if the shares were held for the benefit of the pension fund that is whose name they would be under.

...or are you thinking they may be using nominee accounts and recording the legal rather than the beneficial owner? Which is not the most transparent thing to do....

[Tamworthram]

9 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

it would. Managing a pension fund is not being the pension fund though, which has a distinct legal presence. So if the shares were held for the benefit of the pension fund that is whose name they would be under.

Fair point but, it’s still the countries central bank (similar to the Bank of England I’m guessing) so not owned by any fat cats etc.

[GboroRam]

Are we really at the point where people are trying to argue that dividend payments aren't abused by the very wealthy?

[Van der MoodHoover]

23 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Fair point but, it’s still the countries central bank (similar to the Bank of England I’m guessing) so not owned by any fat cats etc.

That's true - I was more thinking that as a Bank (assuming it was holding it for its own account and not as a nominee for something else) then it forms part of core capital that it can lend against, rather than being for the benefit of a "pensioner" as such.

[Tamworthram]

1 minute ago, GboroRam said:

Are we really at the point where people are trying to argue that dividend payments aren't abused by the very wealthy?

No. We’re just debating the fact that the wealthy aren’t the only ones that own shares. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that often pension funds are amongst the largest shareholders for large corporations.

[jono]

5 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Does all the dividend money end up in pensions? Or does some of it end up as yachts and lear jets?

Some does for sure, but then there are skimmers at every level. a lot of small ones and a few big ones. That's life and human nature. We have laws and rules designed to limit it. They don't always work. I also agree there are some CEO's who cream money they simply do not deserve. Equally, There are CEO's in the public sector who have never taken a risk in their lives but are paid eyewatering salaries and move from council to council with golden goodbyes, golden hellos and golden pensions - All at the tax payers expense. Might not be a lear jet but you bet there are some juicy second homes.  Laws need to be tightened but it doesn't alter the basic story. Profits pay shareholders who invest money. The largest shareholders are pension funds that pay ….pensioners …. who would otherwise be dependant on the state and if their pension is big enough then they pay tax on that pension. 

[Comrade 86]

6 hours ago, jono said:

The startling ignorance of some left wing commentators who perpetuate the myth that dividends are somehow money that drips down a hole to some global mastermind in the Cayman Islands is as daft as it is blind

Assuming you know what us lefties don't is 'startling ducking ignorance' to be honest. Sick to death of it.

[A Ram for All Seasons]

2 hours ago, i-Ram said:

On 08/04/2020 at 10:49, i-Ram said:

Would any Remainers like to give me their current thoughts on how the EU are coming together to serve their people. No whataboutery please; let’s try to stick to the question for a post or two.

BBC Extracts in the last 24 hours:

EU finance ministers said on Wednesday still haven’t agreed an economic response. Northern EU member states like the Netherlands and Germany fear they’ll end up carrying other countries’ debts, while hard-hit nations in the south like Italy and Spain say not enough is being done 

Mauro Ferrari, the EU’s top scientist, dramatically quit last night because of the bloc’s response to the virus, saying he had “lost faith” in the EU.

The EU Taskforce set up to coordinate supplies of ventilators, PPE, masks, etc., as of yesterday had still not delivered one piece of equipment to a member state.

Italy clearly disappointed by EU support.  Not difficult to see Spain and France joining them. Be interesting to see how Germany play this, as it is not inconceivable they may find themselves ostracised in the EU.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52224838

 

At the moment, all governments are behaving like we are, shutting down borders and avoiding contact with each other. The EU will have to reach an agreement at some time in order to protect the Euro from currency speculators, but sharing each others debts is contrary to Article 125 of the EU treaty. All 27 states would have to approve the change, and that isn't going to happen.

If the Italians don't like it, they can always leave like Britain has done. They would also have to leave the Euro, at which point the Italian Lira would fall through the floor leaving them with high inflation, high interest rates and massive problems repaying their debts. Some agreement will have to be reached eventually, probably through the Euro Stability Mechanism, as otherwise chaos will ensue. The Germans know that too.

However, it is certain that Boris ain't gonna get his trade agreement by the end of the year. The EU has much more important issues to deal with, i.e. survival and reconstruction, and it won't do Britain any favours. Somebody ought to ask Boris whether he still really would prefer to die in a ditch rather than ask for an extension. Recent events might have caused him to change his mind.

[i-Ram]

14 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

At the moment, all governments are behaving like we are, shutting down borders and avoiding contact with each other. The EU will have to reach an agreement at some time in order to protect the Euro from currency speculators, but sharing each others debts is contrary to Article 125 of the EU treaty. All 27 states would have to approve the change, and that isn't going to happen.

If the Italians don't like it, they can always leave like Britain has done. They would also have to leave the Euro, at which point the Italian Lira would fall through the floor leaving them with high inflation, high interest rates and massive problems repaying their debts. Some agreement will have to be reached eventually, probably through the Euro Stability Mechanism, as otherwise chaos will ensue. The Germans know that too.

However, it is certain that Boris ain't gonna get his trade agreement by the end of the year. The EU has much more important issues to deal with, i.e. survival and reconstruction, and it won't do Britain any favours. Somebody ought to ask Boris whether he still really would prefer to die in a ditch rather than ask for an extension. Recent events might have caused him to change his mind.

Pretty sure St Thomas Hospital is giving him Oxygen not Methamphetamine

[Tamworthram]

2 hours ago, ramit said:

It's been over 18 years since that happened.  If you still are not aware of the gaping holes in the official account, then indeed it is likely you never will be.  The official version of the events is a conspiracy theory, you know.

However, this video is about the ongoing crisis we are all facing, so either watch the thing to the end, 15 minutes at a go if you must, or accept that you are not currently in a position to criticize it's content.

Are you saying the “official” version of 9/11 is that it was a conspiracy? Have you got a link for the “official” version I’d be interested to see it and, I promise to view/read it all the way through.

[Tamworthram]

9 hours ago, ramit said:

The controlled demolition of the economy?  A plandemic to create conditions for a centralized cryptocurrency?  The ushering in of the social credit score?

 

 

OK, so I’ve watched. Very crudely he seems to be suggesting the whole thing (people losing jobs, pressures on health services, loss of civil liberties, companies going out of business etc.) has all been engineered in order to centralise power and in particular support the launch of the digital dollar. There does seem to be some odd things he’s flagged up including digital dollar legislation in the US but, this doesn’t explain why every government in the world is joining in the conspiracy unless he is suggesting the US is so powerful they either have no choice or don’t realise they’ve been had by the US.

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Assuming you know what us lefties don't is 'startling ducking ignorance' to be honest. Sick to death of it.

I think anyone who believes dividend distribution is a helpful redistribution of wealth via pension pots, rather than it representing the biggest transfer of risk from businesses and government onto individuals needs to step back and look at the system in its entirety.

Those lovely philanthropic corporations were just looking after us pensioners all along........

 

....er, maybe not eh? 

[ramit]

40 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Are you saying the “official” version of 9/11 is that it was a conspiracy? Have you got a link for the “official” version I’d be interested to see it and, I promise to view/read it all the way through.

19 terrorists who could not even fly a Cessna and armed with box-cutters overtook control of 4 large passenger jets, flew 2 of the planes into the World Trade Towers collapsing both in a free fall into their footprint and 1 into the Pentagon at a speed and angle deemed not possible by aviation pilots and engineers, leaving a neat hole in the side of the building, the 4th crashing into a forested area in Pennsylvania without leaving debris or even the engines for inspection.  A large building adjacent to the towers that was only hit by debris, building 7, free falls into it's footprint.  All this was directed by a madman in a cave in Afghanistan, who years later is killed by US special forces and then buried at sea.

If that sounds reasonable to you, then do carry on in your beliefs, but if you seek evidence of a conspiracy do your own work in supplying yourself with that evidence.  i will leave one link for you to get you going, a 14 year old one.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2006/sep/05/internationaleducationnews.highereducation

[ramit]

28 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

OK, so I’ve watched. Very crudely he seems to be suggesting the whole thing (people losing jobs, pressures on health services, loss of civil liberties, companies going out of business etc.) has all been engineered in order to centralise power and in particular support the launch of the digital dollar. There does seem to be some odd things he’s flagged up including digital dollar legislation in the US but, this doesn’t explain why every government in the world is joining in the conspiracy unless he is suggesting the US is so powerful they either have no choice or don’t realise they’ve been had by the US.

Thank you for that.  i would consider one of your last two mentioned possibilities to possibly be correct, if Corbett's theory holds up to scrutiny, which time will surely tell.  Sorry, i don't know how to highlight a text.

[Tamworthram]

No it doesn't sound reasonable but neither does the thought of the US government (if that is what the "official" versions is) engineering such a terrible event with the resultant loss of life. Does it to you?

The link you've provided requires me to register (albeit it free) which I don't particularly want to do. Before I decide to, does it actually state what the "official" version is or just pose, however plausible it may seem, a theory?

 

[ramit]

5 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

No it doesn't sound reasonable but neither does the thought of the US government (if that is what the "official" versions is) engineering such a terrible event with the resultant loss of life. Does it to you?

The link you've provided requires me to register (albeit it free) which I don't particularly want to do. Before I decide to, does it actually state what the "official" version is or just pose, however plausible it may seem, a theory?

 

Look at the aftermath.  Afhanistan and Iraq invaded.  There was no appetite for sending troops to war, 9/11 changed that immediately.  We must always ask the question to every event, large or small, who gains.

That's odd, i was able to read the whole thing and i never sign up for any news pages.  i can send you the text in a pm if you like.