v Charlton Athletic (H) - Matchday Thread

[CharltonFan]

Terrible, terrible performance from us last night. Nobody looked at the races from the very get go. poo defending for both of your goals, but credit to Derby down to 10 men they made it really hard for us to break down and counter attacking punishes us yet again.

We can have all the possession in the world but with nobody to penetrate the defence and actually put a decent cross in, it means nothing.

Jason Knight I'll be honest I didn't even know who he was when I saw the lineup and SkySports were bigging him up, he certainly showed us why last night. Incredible performance from him.

And to sum up our night, our top goalscorer gets injured and is now out for 3/4 weeks.

All the best for the rest of the season.

[DRBee]

16 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

Given how you have so much more knowledge than all these managers has anyone approached you yet to be their no 1, sounds like you can see stuff no one else can.

Mind you if you did not notice what Waghorn brought to the team last night you may be waiting a while....

I thought Waghorn did well last night and I don't agree with the post you criticised but the tired "Given how you have so much more knowledge than all these managers has anyone approached you yet to be their no 1"you pompously state applies to your comments just as much as theirs. We comment as fans, that's what this forum is.  Grow up.

[AdamRam]

2 minutes ago, DRBee said:

I thought Waghorn did well last night and I don't agree with the post you criticised but the tired "Given how you have so much more knowledge than all these managers has anyone approached you yet to be their no 1"you pompously state applies to your comments just as much as theirs. We comment as fans, that's what this forum is.  Grow up.

Point taken, although it was very much a tongue in cheek comment given the last line about so many managers ?

[Ram8]

I’m earmarked for the Man. City job when Guardiola moves on AdamRam, and Sky Sport have me on their radar as a pundit too !

For the record I think you’re delusional about Waghorn; a few penalties and the odd goal from open play aren’t enough to paper over the fact that his overall contribution doesn’t compare with that of Chris Martin, whose excellent first touch and speed of thought more than make up for a perceived lack of mobility .. 

Running around a lot and having the ball bounce off you 50% of the time isn’t necessarily the best contribution to a Derby performance is it .. 

[AdamRam]

8 minutes ago, Ram8 said:

I’m earmarked for the Man. City job when Guardiola moves on AdamRam, and Sky Sport have me on their radar as a pundit too !

For the record I think you’re delusional about Waghorn; a few penalties and the odd goal from open play aren’t enough to paper over the fact that his overall contribution doesn’t compare with that of Chris Martin, whose excellent first touch and speed of thought more than make up for a perceived lack of mobility .. 

Running around a lot and having the ball bounce off you 50% of the time isn’t necessarily the best contribution to a Derby performance is it .. 

Hope you get the going rate for it ?

Will agree to disagree about the rest, I can't see a role going forward for Martin, think the game has passed him by and his fitness doesn't allow him to play games back to back in a short period of time. One of my favourite players however time for him to move on.
 

As for Waghorn, poor control agreed however last night energy and endeavour was required above having a player who hasn't got it in his game to cover the pitch as was required. Long term, I suspect we will also see less of him.

[Sparkle]

3 hours ago, Ram8 said:

Strange how only RoyMac, Kash, Goldstar and Tuffluff can see what was glaringly obvious from Waghorn’s (usual) performance last night, albeit obscured by an excellent performance from the other ten ! 

The result and much improved performance by (nine of the) ten men should not hide the fact that Waghorn is contributing nothing to this team, other than pointless running around (like David Nugent before him) and the worst ‘first touch’ of anyone at the club.

If Cocu picks Waghorn ahead of Chris Martin on Thursday a great opportunity for a ‘double act’ of supreme quality first touch football from Rooney and Martin will be lost, and yet another manager will have completely missed the true value of CM’s contribution to this team ! 

 

I am a chris Martin fan but I like a lot about Waghorn I like his effort and commitment and playing him out wide is the best option for us as he has many qualities there as we gain more by having Marriott or Martin in the middle as well as Waghorn  - sure his first touch is generally poor but he does get that one good chance a game and he needs to take a much higher percentage of them but his overall battling abilities helps others and the TEAM 

43 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

Personally I think he kept him on as he had no other options, Martin is not mobile and with 10 on the pitch we needed a forward who could get across the pitch to close players down.

I think Whittaker for Marriott was the correct move but Martin as sub also gives us a lot in that situation such as ball control as well as a very good defensive header of the ball so it depends who we were playing really 

[RamNut]

Waggers is so left footed that playing wide right in midfield he does look a bit uncomfortable at times. 

But he’s a workhorse and he did well imo.

[Sparkle]

35 minutes ago, CharltonFan said:

Terrible, terrible performance from us last night. Nobody looked at the races from the very get go. poo defending for both of your goals, but credit to Derby down to 10 men they made it really hard for us to break down and counter attacking punishes us yet again.

We can have all the possession in the world but with nobody to penetrate the defence and actually put a decent cross in, it means nothing.

Jason Knight I'll be honest I didn't even know who he was when I saw the lineup and SkySports were bigging him up, he certainly showed us why last night. Incredible performance from him.

And to sum up our night, our top goalscorer gets injured and is now out for 3/4 weeks.

All the best for the rest of the season.

You weren’t very good to be fair and both sides have had a tremendous amount of injuries this season which a lot of your supporters haven’t noticed about us?

yes the youngsters are getting chances here at Derby and we do have a very good crop coming through but the championship is a harsh learning environment as well as the best one

good luck with the rest of the season  

[Sparkle]

After all the moaning by Derby supporters following the Wigan game that last minute goal by waghorn seemed to give the whole team a big lift 

[angieram]

38 minutes ago, CharltonFan said:

Terrible, terrible performance from us last night. Nobody looked at the races from the very get go. poo defending for both of your goals, but credit to Derby down to 10 men they made it really hard for us to break down and counter attacking punishes us yet again.

We can have all the possession in the world but with nobody to penetrate the defence and actually put a decent cross in, it means nothing.

Jason Knight I'll be honest I didn't even know who he was when I saw the lineup and SkySports were bigging him up, he certainly showed us why last night. Incredible performance from him.

And to sum up our night, our top goalscorer gets injured and is now out for 3/4 weeks.

All the best for the rest of the season.

Really good of you to come here and post this.

I thought our injury list was bad but yours is even worse! I was at your place when you demolished us earlier in the season and that day you had all the drive and energy. 

Sometimes football is strange and we have looked better off with some of our younger players on the pitch, even though results (until last night) haven't been going our way.

I hope things start to improve for you soon. 

[S8TY]

3 hours ago, Ram8 said:

Strange how only RoyMac, Kash, Goldstar and Tuffluff can see what was glaringly obvious from Waghorn’s (usual) performance last night, albeit obscured by an excellent performance from the other ten ! 

The result and much improved performance by (nine of the) ten men should not hide the fact that Waghorn is contributing nothing to this team, other than pointless running around (like David Nugent before him) and the worst ‘first touch’ of anyone at the club.

If Cocu picks Waghorn ahead of Chris Martin on Thursday a great opportunity for a ‘double act’ of supreme quality first touch football from Rooney and Martin will be lost, and yet another manager will have completely missed the true value of CM’s contribution to this team ! 

 

So a great performance last night but you bring it back to CM again !! Now saying CM must play on Thursday ??? Does it really bother you that much that Chris was not involved? 
Waggy hardly had a stormer but let’s not forget he did well a few times defensively and his direct running at defenders is different to what CM offers ...but no ...let’s just criticise Cocu for Thursdays line up before it’s even been selected ....it beggars belief some of the negative crap on here at times even when we’ve won 

[MaltRam]

Come on lads and lasses. This morning should not be about picking on our personal favourite scapegoat, or taking the bait if someone moans. We won! Magnificently! Enjoy!

[BondJovi]

What stood out for me was the general positive intent, players wanting the ball and willing to try something, yet without the ball incredibly disciplined.

Clarke makes a huge difference but I thought penalty aside Davies had a great game, quite a few times he won the ball Infront of their attacker and then he moved forward, even going beyond the ball at one point. It isn't really his game but he is giving it his all.

Considering the form we are in, the pressure on the game, the second match in 3 we have had to play the majority with 10, you should only really be impressed.

Anyone who doubts what the coaching staff are doing here, look at the reaction between Knight and Scheepers at the end of the game.

[Mckram]

1 hour ago, CharltonFan said:

Terrible, terrible performance from us last night. Nobody looked at the races from the very get go. poo defending for both of your goals, but credit to Derby down to 10 men they made it really hard for us to break down and counter attacking punishes us yet again.

We can have all the possession in the world but with nobody to penetrate the defence and actually put a decent cross in, it means nothing.

Jason Knight I'll be honest I didn't even know who he was when I saw the lineup and SkySports were bigging him up, he certainly showed us why last night. Incredible performance from him.

And to sum up our night, our top goalscorer gets injured and is now out for 3/4 weeks.

All the best for the rest of the season.

How has Pratley been for you this season? I thought last night he looked well past it.

[Phoenix]

You have to wonder about Lawrence. Although it leaves the taste of bile in my mouth, I have to admit that Leicester City have proved to be very astute at spotting talent.

So why would they sell Lawrence to us? Might it be that they realised that for all his apparent talent, he wouldn't 'go all the way'?

I seem to recall that Brian Clough was reluctant to sign Welsh players. "They get homesick", although it might  have been a BC tongue-in-cheek comment.

[Ramarena]

4 hours ago, Ellafella said:

Spot on @Jourdan. That performance reveals a few myths that have been voiced this season:

1. “Cocu has inherited a squad who are not good enough”. “Holmes is at best League 1”. “Wisdom is not the player he was and should not play”. “Lowe is not good enough for the Championship”. These myths are touted as a way of explaining our poor showing this year yet clearly they lack validity in light of what they showed last night.

2. “Jack Marriott is an impact player and can only play from the bench”. Had his constant running been picked up more frequently and some passes given earlier he’d have also been on the scoresheet last night. So why hasn’t he been selected more often this year? He understandably showed moments of frustration last night when his demand for a pass wasn’t answered so the team need to take note. He gave Charlton defenders a lot to do last night as a lone striker. He needs to play as a 2 up front though. 
 

3. The answer is not to blame the quality of the opposition. We should have been 1-0 within 5 seconds last night. {Perhaps 1 of our 6 coaches can find some time to show Waghorn how to “draw” the keeper when 1 on 1 because he clearly makes the wrong decision each time he’s put through. His technique is wrong }. Charlton were not very good but so good were we that we beat them with 10 men. And it clearly wasn’t a penalty - Curtis Davies clearly pulled out of any contact so the attacker clearly cheated on that one and the replay showed it. 

So where did that performance come from? We looked a completely different Club let alone team: very good atmosphere, energy, desire, speed & adrenaline and attacking intent. Why has this been largely absent this season? 
 

I suspect that given the very short turnaround before Thursday there’s a real danger that legs will be heavy v Barnsley and we’ll revert to type; I certainly can’t see Knight re-producing that level of performance so soon { he was nothing short of brilliant last night} and Bird finally showed a performance to justify what others have said he’s capable of...

And did we miss Lawrence? I do wonder why we persist with a player who wantonly squanders so much good possessions in advanced positions. It’s really time to grab that particular nettle. Do we have the courage to do without that particular luxury item? 

So, was it just the “backs to the wall” situation that triggered that or did Cocu and his cast of coaches just get the preparation, formation and approach right? No easy answer but let’s hope we don’t see any more “tinkering” and we learn from those positives - Wisdom can play, Lowe can play, Marriott can play from the start, and we can attack teams and try and win the game, especially when we’re at home. Well done Derby County!

I’d add another myth in there:

- Cocu has lost the dressing room

People haven’t been watching closely enough before declaring he’s lost the players. I said it a few weeks ago, a manager who’s lost the dressing room doesn’t get these bursts of performances for 15-30 mins before reverting to type.

Fine to criticise his decisions/tactics as some have been suspect. But he wouldn’t be getting the upticks in performance the players sometimes give if he’d lost them, there would just be a flatline.

Last night proved this, there’s no way the team would have pulled that performance out if he’d lost them.

I don’t know for sure but I fear there is a problem in the dressing room, something doesn’t seem right and it was interesting to see the level of performance, effort and desire increase with the youngsters in and certain individuals not involved......I would hope this is just coincidence but it’s an obvious concern given some of this seasons “events”.

It’ll be fascinating to see where we go from here!

[DavesaRam]

3 hours ago, I Bought the Tee Shirt said:

An opinion is an opinion, So here's mine, Charlton started with 11 players, So did DCFC, After 17mins we were down to 10 players, Those 10 players stopped a Charlton team from having it their own way, In days gone by 11 V 10 would have the 11 winning comfortabely, But today teams train to play with 10 men, Charlton had the advantage of an extra man, We stopped them using the space that was there, More so we could have and should have scored 3 maybe 4 with better finishing.

Lee Bowyer is in your court he said they were poor, Also he said give Derby credit for their victory, The opposition is only as good as the opposition let them play, We were intelligent enough to let them have the ball and get players behind the ball, Hit them on the break and create chances.

For me the reason Charlton were poor was because they couldn't work out how to break a resolute team down, Derby made them look poor.

Actually much of their gameplay was simply hoof it long and high, along with kicking, pushing, tripping and anything else you can to opposition players. No surprise really, when you see who their manager is!

 

[Ellafella]

5 minutes ago, Ramarena said:

I’d add another myth in there:

- Cocu has lost the dressing room

People haven’t been watching closely enough before declaring he’s lost the players. I said it a few weeks ago, a manager who’s lost the dressing room doesn’t get these bursts of performances for 15-30 mins before reverting to type.

Fine to criticise his decisions/tactics as some have been suspect. But he wouldn’t be getting the upticks in performance the players sometimes give if he’d lost them, there would just be a flatline.

Last night proved this, there’s no way the team would have pulled that performance out if he’d lost them.

I don’t know for sure but I fear there is a problem in the dressing room, something doesn’t seem right and it was interesting to see the level of performance, effort and desire increase with the youngsters in and certain individuals not involved......I would hope this is just coincidence but it’s an obvious concern given some of this seasons “events”.

It’ll be fascinating to see where we go from here!

Can you be any more specific as to who you may mean by this vague and ephemeral reference @Ramarena? ?

[Sparkle]

1 hour ago, Phoenix said:

You have to wonder about Lawrence. Although it leaves the taste of bile in my mouth, I have to admit that Leicester City have proved to be very astute at spotting talent.

So why would they sell Lawrence to us? Might it be that they realised that for all his apparent talent, he wouldn't 'go all the way'?

I seem to recall that Brian Clough was reluctant to sign Welsh players. "They get homesick", although it might  have been a BC tongue-in-cheek comment.

Well we offered Leicester a lot of money for someone who wasn’t going to play for them also Manchester United thought the same and sold him to Leicester 

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

It does make me wonder that the players were giving everything because Lawrence wasn’t in the team. 
 

For more reasons than one - what happened in September and also with how he plays, I can imagine a few players frustrated with him. 
 

Hopefully we can go on a run without him.