Greta Thunberg & Extinction Rebellion

[Nuwtfly]

5 minutes ago, Spanish said:

yep bloody awful.  You can see why people get frustrated though.  The basics are that many are unwilling to change their lifestyles to meet a challenge which is still theoretical.  By the time it is not theoretical it may be too late.  I don't think disrupting peoples lives will succeed in turning them into active supporters of 'extinction rebellion'.  As we can see there are some brutal people around

I can absolutely see why. ER need to get smart quick, and start targeting more appropriate/subject relevant spots. Targeting the underground train service is silly for so many reasons.

In saying that, I'm just shocked that the general reaction seems to be to lambaste the protesters, rather than the people who acted like a violent mob.

[maxjam]

5 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

I think I quoted similar figures yesterday - current population growth models show 11bn people by 2099.
The predicted "earth overshoot" by then is 400% -  based on the methods we currently use to sustain/feed/house the population

80 years is a decent amount of time to work out how we change things, but the point is that it has to start NOW. And that's why XR is critical as a protest. Because our current governments are hellbent on infinite economic growth, increasing wealth inequality and letting nothing stand in the way of that.

As the proletariat we are also guilty - hellbent on consumerism and doing whatever we like to make ourselves feel good

It's a deadly embrace, and doing nothing about it is not an option if the human race is to survive

I'll agree that something needs to be done sooner rather than later but strongly disagree that the antics of the extinction rebellion is doing anything other than annoying people going about their daily lives or coming across as loonies to be ignored.  I've made my point over several pages in this thread so will probably leave it here.  

Some interesting posts last night though after we got past the extinction rebellion stuff, almost made me feel positive about posting in The Pub again!

[TuffLuff]

It’s worth pointing out this mornings action has been condemned by the leaders of Extinction Rebellion. It’s the problem of a decentralised organisation that people can act ‘in name’ rather than getting approval. 

Problem is when you attack public transport is that you aren’t just stopping people getting to work but also people getting to hospital appointments and all sorts. Support it all in general but feel that was an unsupportive step too far this morning.

[WhiteHorseRam]

35 minutes ago, King Kevin said:

Not the sharpest tools in the box,if you're going to disrupt commuters don't pick an East London station.

The violence is unpleasant but it was a stupid place to try and make a point about climate change.

I wonder what the Telegraph readers were thinking?

Spluttering over their bowls of golden nuggets drenched in port, wondering why the Yeomanry cavalry hadn't piled in probably.

[Spanish]

2 minutes ago, WhiteHorseRam said:

The violence is unpleasant but it was a stupid place to try and make a point about climate change.

I wonder what the Telegraph readers were thinking?

Spluttering over their bowls of golden nuggets drenched in port, wondering why the Yeomanry cavalry hadn't piled in probably.

[Stive Pesley]

5 minutes ago, maxjam said:

strongly disagree that the antics of the extinction rebellion is doing anything other than annoying people going about their daily lives or coming across as loonies to be ignored.  I've made my point over several pages in this thread so will probably leave it here.  

Yeah sorry - I do get where you're coming from, so don't feel like I'm fishing for a reply

It's a similar argument to the old chestnut about strike action. When people say "oh it's terribly inconvenient" - that kind of misses the point that it is meant to be. If strike action had no disruptive effect then it would be pointless.

For me I agree it's annoying and that the antics might turn some people off, but the opposite side of the coin is that if they were mild-mannered, non-disruptive and innocuous then no one would ever become aware of what they stand for.

Comes down to how individuals process the thought pattern., With strike action you have to realise the people to get mad with about the disruption are the employers who have mistreated the workers so badly that they have no choice but to do this. Same here - be more mad at the leaders who won't take action than you are at Brocolli man for being a prat

 

I'm off to the Charlton game on Saturday so I might change my mind if they block the trainline!

 

[MaltRam]

It's a mad one. 

On the one hand the planet is being destroyed. My guess is that within 50 years reversal will be impracticable, and within 200 life on earth will be limited to whatever can be kept in biomes.

On the other hand, there is absolutely nothing I, or any individual, can do about it. The governments are too reliant on business in the west and too corrupt most everywhere else, business is beholden to share value.

The only option to save the planet is a new global order, and that means a literally global movement by consumers as a unified block.

The only way we get there is by raising awareness, making links and joining together. Social media has given us the platforms to accomplish that...but I'm not sure that anywhere close to critical mass of humanity has awareness, is intelligent enough to comprehend it, or has the vision to see it. Most of us 7bn apes are living pretty much hand to mouth. Folk that are clued enough that they don't want to burn petrol today, still have to go to work or they lose their home and go hungry long before they see global warming or overpopulation or pollution affect them personally. Stand in their way with a banner and you're likely to get a negative reaction.

We need a miracle. Come on swine flu...get evolving.

 

[Angry Ram]

Trains had better not be ducked when I get back on the Eurostar. Grrr 

[Spanish]

3 minutes ago, Needlesh said:

It's a mad one. 

On the one hand the planet is being destroyed. My guess is that within 50 years reversal will be impracticable, and within 200 life on earth will be limited to whatever can be kept in biomes.

On the other hand, there is absolutely nothing I, or any individual, can do about it. The governments are too reliant on business in the west and too corrupt most everywhere else, business is beholden to share value.

The only option to save the planet is a new global order, and that means a literally global movement by consumers as a unified block.

The only way we get there is by raising awareness, making links and joining together. Social media has given us the platforms to accomplish that...but I'm not sure that anywhere close to critical mass of humanity has awareness, is intelligent enough to comprehend it, or has the vision to see it. Most of us 7bn apes are living pretty much hand to mouth. Folk that are clued enough that they don't want to burn petrol today, still have to go to work or they lose their home and go hungry long before they see global warming or overpopulation or pollution affect them personally. Stand in their way with a banner and you're likely to get a negative reaction.

We need a miracle. Come on swine flu...get evolving.

 

just when World Wars have gone out of fashion, perhaps Brexit,as warned by Cameron,provides an option in years to come (gallows humour sorry)

[SaintRam]

I see the logic behind trying to disrupt public transport to get heard. However, there's a reason similar protests choose to do things like stand on runways and other methods of disruption in areas that the public can't get to you.

It's absolutely idiotic to put yourself within reach of the commuters who are being hurt by your disruption. Plenty of those commuting aren't going to be the sorts who can just call in and say they can't make it - plenty of them will be working jobs where not turning up = not getting paid. 

I wonder if they just assumed all past protests just hadn't thought of doing this? They thought the "people" are on their side? The people will always be on the side of being able to buy food.

Incredibly naive, and a great advertisement for the obvious "deep thinkers" that make up this protest.

 

[Gone]

55 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Just me that finds the act of pulling a man down to the ground and beating him senseless as a mob more abhorrent than disrupting a train service to raise awareness of climate change? 

Not really and think you’ll be in the minority, all actions have consequences. What did those drips think would happen stopping people trying to get to work and feed their families etc. 

I think the quiet majority have finally had enough. 

[maxjam]

20 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Yeah sorry - I do get where you're coming from, so don't feel like I'm fishing for a reply

It's a similar argument to the old chestnut about strike action. When people say "oh it's terribly inconvenient" - that kind of misses the point that it is meant to be. If strike action had no disruptive effect then it would be pointless.

For me I agree it's annoying and that the antics might turn some people off, but the opposite side of the coin is that if they were mild-mannered, non-disruptive and innocuous then no one would ever become aware of what they stand for.

Comes down to how individuals process the thought pattern., With strike action you have to realise the people to get mad with about the disruption are the employers who have mistreated the workers so badly that they have no choice but to do this. Same here - be more mad at the leaders who won't take action than you are at Brocolli man for being a prat

Strikes generally put pressure on a individual company you are trying to get a raise out of though - bad publicity, hurts financially, can work quickly in a lot of cases. 

The extinction rebellion are trying to raise awareness of climate change however and turn people that maybe don't care for one reason or another onto the idea.  If you aren't interested in climate change or think its scaremongering mumbo jumbo someone dressed as a broccoli or watching some weird street dance is only going to reaffirm your existing opinions that they are all crazies and its nothing to be really that concerned about. 

If you then start disrupting people from going about their daily lives they are very quickly going to lose sympathy they may have had and as we've seen in the other thread start reacting aggressively.  I just think its a poorly thought out strategy and has the potential to do a lot more harm than good.

But I really need this to be my last word on the subject, I'm repeating myself and more importantly have a lot of work to do today!

 

20 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

I'm off to the Charlton game on Saturday so I might change my mind if they block the trainline!

Might make for an interesting conversation after the weekend!

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

Poor show, that's the way to do it!

[Norman]

Just proves the points of many in the other thread that their protests are counter-productive. 

And I don't care what anyone says on here, if some Bamford is stopping me getting to work on time, or to a hospital appointment etc then I am dragging him off the train with little care for him.

Wouldnt hit him or kick him after, like. 

[ramsbottom]

I'm all for raising awareness that the government isn't doing enough to tackle what will be a huge problem, but this isn't the way to go about it.  I'm not defending the bell-tards that put the boot in after he was dragged off the roof, they want locking up.  But what did he think was going to happen when you put people's livelihoods at stake??  They're gonna get annoyed, and they're going to lash out.  Would I have put the boot in?  Absolutely not.  Would I have dragged him off the roof, so I could get to work, and earn a wage to provide for my family?  Yes I would. 

One of the protesters (retired, middle class, probably spent most of her retired years travelling round in her hubby's S Class diesel...) who glued herself to another train said they targeted that particular one because it ran through the financial district.  Righto love, because hedge fund and big bank employees clean their own offices, and make there own coffee, in the Starbucks round the corner.  I'm pretty sure most of the commuters on all these trains are on low wage jobs and easily replaceable. 

[WhiteHorseRam]

27 minutes ago, Norman said:

Just proves the points of many in the other thread that their protests are counter-productive. 

And I don't care what anyone says on here, if some Bamford is stopping me getting to work on time, or to a hospital appointment etc then I am dragging him off the train with little care for him.

Wouldnt hit him or kick him after, like. 

Would have been interesting if everyone just got on ...

 

and then the train started moving

[WhiteHorseRam]

33 minutes ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said:

Poor show, that's the way to do it!

In my experience, that's the 0700 train from Reading to Paddington

[alexxxxx]

Living in London im not hearing much support for them disrupting commuters... Jubilee line is already terrible in the morning with people left on platforms cause you can't cram anymore people in.

[SillyBilly]

11 hours ago, Highgate said:

 

I think your ex-uni cohorts might be closer to the mark than you are on this issue.  Although let's hope you are right and they are wrong.

 

 

They probably are, I've no doubt my views are a function of my environment and ultimately how I make money. I perhaps should declare that I have a significant vested interest in the oil industry in particular given I own a chemical manufacturing business. Most haven't got a clue just how our extensively crude derivatives are used in everyday products the West takes for granted. We buy millions of litres of crude derivatives each year; I'd be pretty surprised if you didn't have a product at home which was either fully or part produced by us given we toll for most of the major brands that sit on retailers' shelves.

[GboroRam]

1 hour ago, maxjam said:

The extinction rebellion are trying to raise awareness of climate change however and turn people that maybe don't care for one reason or another onto the idea.  If you aren't interested in climate change or think its scaremongering mumbo jumbo someone dressed as a broccoli or watching some weird street dance is only going to reaffirm your existing opinions that they are all crazies and its nothing to be really that concerned about. 

I think the fringe "loonies" are making their presence felt more and more because (a) they are going to attract the attention of the news editors (man bites dog is better news than dog bites man) and (b) the measured, sensible approach seems to have had little or no effect.