Overreaction

[RamNut]

It was a cracking cup draw, but we literally didn't turn up. ?

 

[RandomAccessMemory]

1 hour ago, RamNut said:

You count a dodgy decision against us, but ignore the even dodgier decision in our favour. Missing 50% of penalties isn't down to bad luck. 

I said two saved penalties or one (against Swansea, which would have won us the game) and a dodgy refereeing decision that gave WBA one.

I'm not ignoring the fact that our second one against WBA was dubious, but we didn't score from it, the score was still 1-0 from the one that was correctly given, the dodgy decision for theirs (caused by one of their players, unlike our dubiously given one) and the fact they then went on to score it meant we drew instead of won, if neither of those penalties had been given we would still have won the game.

Who mentioned it being down to bad luck? I was actually pointing out that it's a game of very small margins and that given the opposition faced we haven't started the season nearly as badly as some are suggesting.

[NottsRam77]

The side that cocu sent out was literally lambs to the slaughter .... when he put that team out (for a local Derby no matter how insignificant) where exactly did he see our goals or attacking threat coming from ... I mean really ?

i have to work with the bouncy duckers and while I’m all for blooding youth as some have alluded to there’s a world of difference between putting a couple of kids in amongst an established set of pros that are fluent and cohesive or sending them literally into no mans land over the top to be shot at in the most unforgiving of environments 

I’m all for the kids gaining experience but I’m not sure that’s the manner in which to do it 

[Bubbles]

Good morning,

 

So we did get shafted yesterday but what do you expect, we played a second string side, with some bang average players.., Playing Duane Holmes right back was stupid and I still stand by the point we should of played a more strong team. 

But look at it from the bigger picture, that Florist team was seriously strong, they have a quality side and without being too bitter I'll be suprised if they don't get top 6 this season (Yes I know they'll probs bottle it but on paper they've got a quality team with lots of depth). They've got 40 players or whatever it is but it means they've got good depth in each position, and it sucks to say it but they've got a much stronger team than we do. 

But enough crediting them, for us it was a good lesson to learn, our youth have had their first taste of a midlands Derby and no doubt they'll all be peed off with the result and that is just going to fire them up more! Losing in a game as big as that (albeit in a energy drink cup) will surely fire them up to improve and put it right to the fans. Unfortunately I feel like Curtis Davies has lost it which is a big shame regarding how much quality he had before his big injury, Our main issue is up top nowadays and in that attacking midfield role. We have literally no end product, we're struggling for creativity, and Jan is going to be crucial for us, to get some actual Phillip Cocu signings in rather than some Frank Lampard signings, you would of thought that by Jan 1st he will of drafted up a list of a few players who he will want to bring in. A new AM, new Winger and I'd even say maybe a striker too, Marriott's came back from injury which is fair enough to him and he's working on his fitness but as I said before we're lacking that end product with Waggy on top, absolutely love Waggy to bits but I just don't feel like we're an attacking threat anymore... Maybe that will change if we bring in a new attacking midfielder and a winger, but we can't rely on penalties to score.

Mason Bennett - lives and breathes Derby County but he's just not good enough at the moment, he really isn't and its sad to say but he's not at that level yet, Josefzoon we all know isn't at the standard required to play for a promotion challenging team, so we need to shift both of these and bring in 2-3 more wingers (1 left sided 2 right sided). I've drafted up a couple of players I'd like to see us go for (Some seem unrealistic but worth a try)

Tomás Chancalay - young winger plays in the Argentinian league - regarded as a bright prospect, skillful, versatile and his contract runs out at the end of the year.

Jarrod Bowen - we all know the quality of this lad, unbelievable player and again, his contract runs out at the end of the year (not sure if the 1 year extension can be triggered by club or up to player) if he doesn't want to review would Hull really want to let him go on a free? Could get a cut price deal on him but would still be 4-5 mil.

 

Jordon Ibe - Contract runs out at the end of the year, would love him back for many reasons, kind of self explanatory.

 

Gastón Pereiro - Come on Phil, use your links! Another player out of contract end of the year, quality attacking midfeilder.

 

Angel Gomes (LOAN) - Seems to be a highly regarded prospect at Man Utd, but not getting any game time with the first team at the moment, seemed a good player in pre season and see a lot of fans getting frustrated he hasn't been picked for some first team games.

 

Either way, we're going to be okay, Its the start of a big project, don't forget Cocu had an average first season with PSV then look at what happened, be patient, give him time, one day soon we'll be back in the promised land.. 

COYR

[sawley_ram]

54 minutes ago, jimbo jones said:

Been at work in Beeston since 6, mostly been asked why Cocu played such a weak side, and been told by a couple who went to the game they thought our youngsters looked promising from what they saw.

to be fair, im yet to encounter the more moronic of the red dogs ?

Must attract a different bunch in the side of Beeston I work in then!

Wasn't at the game but from what a friend who was there has said, the youth (Buchanan, Mitchell-Lawson particularly) did look promising and showed individual talents. All we can do is treat the game as a bit of experience for them in a fairly tough game.

[RandomAccessMemory]

43 minutes ago, Davide said:

Wrong wrong wrong. Don’t play all those youngsters at once. Don’t play a weak side in a competitive match. The people criticising him are spot on. Awful selection last night. 

In your opinion. Others have a different one.

This was one game. One game that won't affect the outcome of rest of the season as we were highly unlikely to have actually won the cup. One game where Cocu obviously felt it necessary to put out the team that he did, for whatever reason.

The only reason a lot people have a problem with the selection is simply because it was against Forest.

Say the decision from Cocu for this season is that the league is the main focus and the cup games mean blooding youngsters, fringe players and those returning from injury to see where they are at, why should that approach change because of the balls drawn from a pot? Even if that means upsetting some people.

That's why others are talking about a bigger picture for the season, we have chopped and changed our approach so many times over the past few years, and most recently it's been through no fault of our own. If this is the plan for this season, so that we can become stronger in the long run then we should stick to it.

Many of the teams that succeed in this league are the settled ones, we have to let ourselves become one of them for the first time in a while and not be reactive to pressures and hyperbole from people disgruntled about what amounts to one game, in which there were no points at stake, in a season of at least 49 games. It's not like our manager is inexperienced and doesn't know what he is doing when it comes to ultimately winning things and bringing through the best youngsters, lets give him the time and the space to do just that.

[Van der MoodHoover]

Feel for Cocu. Was a really bad draw to get. If we’d been playing eg Newport or Crewe then the reactions would be different.

hes possibly also aghast at what he’s inherited. And I’m surprised frank lampard doesn’t get more stick for his poor permanent signings that he’s left us with.

but also look at the fact that 3 of our alleged “marque” loans were in the team last night with the 4th possibly in the trunk of a dcfcfans car on the way back to Everton. That was not a team full of kids. They should have been able to put in a better performance but they didn’t.

we have to accept that the squad was in a mess and our recruitment seems to remain poor. Much to work on.

[Andicis]

2 hours ago, CocuCrazyCocuMad said:

The reaction to last nights game on Facebook and Twitter is embarrassing.

Cocu has a long term plan, which everyone should accept and back. I don't care if we lost to Forest in a cup competition that adds to the number of fixtures when there are already so many. Not to mention playing in the heat again.

'Cocu doesn't have a clue', 'does he not realised the importance of the fixture?' WTF.

He's the first manager we've had with undoubted quality and knowledge of bringing through youngsters. Difficult game to be make a debut, yes. But given that in the grand scheme of things the worst thing that could happen was we lost and were out of the cup (which we would be knocked out of anyway) then its great that the young players have experienced a high (of being selected) and a low (losing). Even if only one of those players walks away thinking 'I need to work harder' then its a result.

But some fans don't see that. They see a loss to Forest and it worries them that someone will message them taking the pee. Boo hoo.

Cocu would have been a young player once. Someone gave him an opportunity and he took it, going on to 100+ dutch caps and captaining Barcelona for 200+ games. How many of our academy graduates have ever hit such heights to date? a big fat zero.

Especially considering Bury's situation, making money through the academy is 100% the way forward.

No, it isn't. And I bet you wouldn't be saying that if you'd wasted your money on attending just to get taunted by Forest fans.

What the duck is Cocu's long term plan that people keep talking about? There is zero evidence of one. What formation is it? What style of play is he going for? We essentially know nothing so far, we've tried so many things, and none of them are working, so how are you privy to this mystical long term plan? 

How is it smart to bring through youngsters like that? If you bring them in slowly into the spine of a team, with some level of cohesion, they can learn what professional football is like. Instead we just chucked them in with a patched up, poo side and just hoped they would learn something, well what the bloody hell were they supposed to learn from that? 

You're awfully condescending about some fans wanting to beat their local rivals. Just because you don't care, doesn't mean you should be so dismissive of the opinions of other supporters, it just makes you sound like a bit of a dick, to be honest. 

[PrivateDerby]

Cocu will sort it out with time.

[Andicis]

1 hour ago, cheron85 said:

But Cocu can't afford to pander to the fans -

Except, he kinda has to, in some respects. You can't ask for patience very easily if you don't give the fans any reason to like you. Well you can ask, but it won't be very successful. Some people on here seem to regard fan support as optional, whereas I view it as essential. I'm surprised our fans didn't learn from Lampard last year that fan connection is very important.

[jono]

Unless Forest had imploded we were never going to win with that team. A mix of youngsters, players who haven’t featured, those coming back from injury or others played out of position. .. so there it was. 

I suppose the question to be asked is why ? I suspect, regardless of the disappointment and frustration at losing against them, it’s part of a larger plan. We need some points on the board. So miles on his tyres for Holmes, another look at Sibley and keep everyone else fresh for Saturday. 

I’m glum but pragmatic. You can see the logic, but we need 4 points from the next 6 as a minimum or the natives will get restless and confidence will drop. 

[Mostyn6]

2 hours ago, NottsRammy said:

Rooney is worrying are we now get a has been footballer who has a lot of personal problems do we really want this THINK ABOUT IT .If he is earning god knows what and he is Boozing and generally being a T*at how does this affect the rest of our squad on LOWER wages and we expectthem to play . The rooney thing could backfire spectacularly badly .

what the hell is this tripe? You trying to get the forum shutdown?

[BBG83]

15 minutes ago, Andicis said:

No, it isn't. And I bet you wouldn't be saying that if you'd wasted your money on attending just to get taunted by Forest fans.

So I was right then. It’s your personal pride that’s been harmed ?

Its the Carabao Cup. In August.

And the bigger picture is.......nothing is won in August and if you don’t trust and test youth you're only option is to spend to satisfy the impatient.

[BaaLocks]

Cocu is here for the long term, Morris has bet the future of the club on it and I see this as the last roll of the dice for him. If Cocu goes then Morris will too. So bear that in mind before you start sharpening your pitch fork.

Nearly everyone on here said, when Cocu came, that he has a real challenge ahead and we have deadwood to shift etc. While we still have some around we have also done well to get rid of many of the big earners low performers and have also brought in some really exciting players. Many who have leapt to slamming Cocu might want to look at their own posts from the days after he was brought in - we were pretty much unanimous in our view that he has to be given time yet one cup result* and it's all over, let's go to the next one, anyone know what Chris Hughton's is doing.

Blimey boys (and girls) calm down, there's plenty more rolls of the dice in this season, and the ones after that, before this becomes a crisis.

* OK - three goals and not one shot against Forest is not an easy pill to swallow, I get that point)

[Andicis]

4 minutes ago, CocuCrazyCocuMad said:

So I was right then. It’s your personal pride that’s been harmed ?

Its the Carabao Cup. In August.

And the bigger picture is.......nothing is won in August and if you don’t trust and test youth you're only option is to spend to satisfy the impatient.

Don't address the rest of my post at all, just continue with the condescending part. Or my part on that being a shitty way to integrate youth, just try aim personal barbs at me. 

I'm glad you're some elite fan that doesn't care about games vs our local rival. But me and some of the other peasants that support this club actually do care, and are a little upset Cocu didn't even try, guess we're just heinously impatient about asking our manager to play a somewhat reasonable team in one of our biggest games of the season. Glad you're here to temper expectations.

[cheron85]

18 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Except, he kinda has to, in some respects. You can't ask for patience very easily if you don't give the fans any reason to like you. Well you can ask, but it won't be very successful. Some people on here seem to regard fan support as optional, whereas I view it as essential. I'm surprised our fans didn't learn from Lampard last year that fan connection is very important.

The only person he needs to ask patience from is Mr Morris - And I have faith in him as owner, football business genius and lifelong Derby fan to do what's right for the club, the team and the direction we're going

Don't think any manager should have to pander to me - I'm an idiot ? 

[BBG83]

5 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Don't address the rest of my post at all, just continue with the condescending part. Or my part on that being a shitty way to integrate youth, just try aim personal barbs at me. 

I'm glad you're some elite fan that doesn't care about games vs our local rival. But me and some of the other peasants that support this club actually do care, and are a little upset Cocu didn't even try, guess we're just heinously impatient about asking our manager to play a somewhat reasonable team in one of our biggest games of the season. Glad you're here to temper expectations.

No problem. But then you just said it was one of the biggest games of the season.

Just to reiterate. It wasn’t ??

[Andicis]

Just now, cheron85 said:

The only person he needs to ask patience from is Mr Morris - And I have faith in him as owner, football business genius and lifelong Derby fan to do what's right for the club, the team and the direction we're going

Don't think any manager should have to pander to me - I'm an idiot ? 

I don't agree at all. Fan reaction is hugely important to managers, how many managers lose the fans and then get to stay on? Mel Morris might be the only one who can sack Cocu, but if attendances start dropping, fans start booing etc, he won't last long at all.

[Bubbles]

7 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Don't address the rest of my post at all, just continue with the condescending part. Or my part on that being a shitty way to integrate youth, just try aim personal barbs at me. 

I'm glad you're some elite fan that doesn't care about games vs our local rival. But me and some of the other peasants that support this club actually do care, and are a little upset Cocu didn't even try, guess we're just heinously impatient about asking our manager to play a somewhat reasonable team in one of our biggest games of the season. Glad you're here to temper expectations.

jeez who wizzed on your chips

[Andicis]

Just now, CocuCrazyCocuMad said:

No problem. But then you just said it was one of the biggest games of the season.

Just to reiterate. It wasn’t ??

Lovely poster you. You managed to fit in the right level of condescending in every single post, despite very rarely posting any sense. Enjoy my block list.