Overreaction

[ramboy63]

59 minutes ago, QuitYourJibbaJivin said:

Just don’t see the point in making so many changes, freshen the team up, blood a few youngsters but at least give us a chance of winning. He never gave us a chance tonight, as soon as the team was read on the train to Nottingham it killed the mood, we knew it was going to be a tough night.

3500 rams travelled to that poo hole to be laughed at for 90 minutes, not good.

Yes agree totally is easy to say the league is important and it is once you have been knocked out,

The selection was a joke i get playing the younger ones but not all at once and will do there confidence no good at all,or the teams morale

I take my hat off to the 3500 Derby fans that had to endure that rubbish,if you had booked a ticket for a west end show and once you arrived they were doing a 1 night school production you would be pretty pissed off

[NottsRammy]

To be honest  I thought it was a good idea to play some kids but NOT the whole bloody side .The tie deserved respect because of the bragging right and Cocu has very under estimated it and piled a lot of pressure on himself after a slow start . What should have been done is a few regular senior pros with a sprinkling of kids .

Certain things are very worrying.

Bielik playing as a centre half ……………..for gods sake get him in at DM ……...its clear Keogh and Clarke are the 2 at the back STOP tinkering !!.

Square pegs don't go in round holes  ……….ie the fullbacks .

GET MARRIOTT on from the start and build his game time and fitness !!.

What worrying is we have no real playmaker further up the field behind the strikers , no replacement for mount , plz don't say dowell . Well ones due in Jan and now poss earlier .

Right now onto Rooney.

Rooney is worrying are we now get a has been footballer who has a lot of personal problems do we really want this THINK ABOUT IT .If he is earning god knows what and he is Boozing and generally being a T*at how does this affect the rest of our squad on LOWER wages and we expectthem to play . The rooney thing could backfire spectacularly badly .

There is now immense pressure on the next few match's Cocu has to stop tinkering now and play round pegs in round holes and a settled side .

My view of Cocu at the moment is he thinks he is a lot cleverer and than he really is and is losing games by trying to be to Clever instead of keeping it SIMPLE !! .

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

8 hours ago, RandomAccessMemory said:

We are two saved penalties (or one and a dodgy refereeing decision that gave WBA one) off 10 points and a place in the top 6 after 5 games, we're a save (from Waghorn's chip at Stoke) off another 2 points on top of that. Those 5 games have been against 1 team relegated last season, the 3 teams relegated the season previously (all 4 of these teams have parachute payments for this season) and one of the 2 teams who took us to the last day in the fight for the last play off spot last season, under a manager who has been building there for around 3 and a half seasons. I think people are underestimating how our season has gone so far.

Surely it's not about being 'pleased' to be out of the cup to Forest, just not that disappointed about it instead, completely different things.

The main aim of a Championship season is to ultimately get promoted, even if it's not quite possible, however, last season I think the cup games proved to be somewhat of a distraction and/or took it out of us. We lost at Millwall after Oldham (we played at strong team at Oldham). We lost at Bolton after Man Utd. We lost 3 games in a row after the Brighton game.

Those results might have happened anyway, but we also ended up playing 8 cup games, that's potentially 6 games more than your promotion rivals if they fall at the first hurdle. If we draw teams where we are expected to field the first team, as people are suggesting we should have done against Forest, then that's a lot of extra games for the players on top of a 46 game season. We then had the 3 play off games on top of those 54 games. Before the final we had played 56 games, Villa had played 51, who knows if having played those extra 5 games made a difference to the outcome? That's not taking into account that during the season we might have picked up more points at various times with less games in the legs and been in a better position in the league.

We seemed to have a quite large and more experienced squad last season, if Wikipedia is right it looks like we used 28 players in total (for comparison, it seems Villa used 35) this season we have a smaller and/or less experienced squad, it seems sensible to not want to overstretch that squad in games that ultimately don't get you anything, it's highly unlikely that you'd actually end up winning the cup, as by the end the Premier League clubs are putting out full strength teams. It makes sense that the main focus should be on the league this season all things considered.

We should want to win a cup. The teams that have won cups in my lifetime - Leicester, Birmingham, Wigan etc why can’t we win one instead of playing weak sides and getting thrashed. Lampard was the only manager to treat these competitions with respect. 

[SuperDerbySuperRams]

36 minutes ago, Topram said:

Bet you didn’t pay to go last night 

No I didn’t go. But after him clearly stating he was going to change the team, I don’t see why people are crying faux pas 

See you at Brentford 

[BBG83]

The reaction to last nights game on Facebook and Twitter is embarrassing.

Cocu has a long term plan, which everyone should accept and back. I don't care if we lost to Forest in a cup competition that adds to the number of fixtures when there are already so many. Not to mention playing in the heat again.

'Cocu doesn't have a clue', 'does he not realised the importance of the fixture?' WTF.

He's the first manager we've had with undoubted quality and knowledge of bringing through youngsters. Difficult game to be make a debut, yes. But given that in the grand scheme of things the worst thing that could happen was we lost and were out of the cup (which we would be knocked out of anyway) then its great that the young players have experienced a high (of being selected) and a low (losing). Even if only one of those players walks away thinking 'I need to work harder' then its a result.

But some fans don't see that. They see a loss to Forest and it worries them that someone will message them taking the pee. Boo hoo.

Cocu would have been a young player once. Someone gave him an opportunity and he took it, going on to 100+ dutch caps and captaining Barcelona for 200+ games. How many of our academy graduates have ever hit such heights to date? a big fat zero.

Especially considering Bury's situation, making money through the academy is 100% the way forward.

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

7 hours ago, BondJovi said:

We have a small squad. Cocu was appointed in part to promote the youth. Fans were loving his first round pick, so many academy players. Against any other team people would probably understand, but oh no it is Forest, an also ran in this league and below for a long time. I get that some fans see it as the only match that matters but does the whole plan change because of a rivalry so big our manager wasn't aware of it before joining us?

Hamer, Davies and Clarke, Evans and Shinnie. Lots of match experience there. Paterson, Bennett great chance to impress. Of course it is tough as teams need to gel but these players need to be ready. Outside of that we have the kids. Any injury crisis and we need to know the youngsters can do it. We simply don't have the quality in the backup squad.

Of course it is rubbish to lose, and no one likes losing to Forest. Me especially as I am married to one! But there is more to it. If we are getting on our managers back already then we deserve nothing. 

 

I think after that team selection he deserves criticism. I’m sorry but you don’t play a whole changed team against Forest. It’s a competitive match! Why is Keogh on the bench? We lost that match before the start. We could have given ourselves a good cup run like last year or at least had a chance. Yesterday that selection was awful and disrespectful. What does it achieve? Youngsters get game time but this could have been done cleverly over the whole season. We aren’t guaranteed to win the next match. More often than not a result like this will affect the team negatively. 

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

1 minute ago, CocuCrazyCocuMad said:

The reaction to last nights game on Facebook and Twitter is embarrassing.

Cocu has a long term plan, which everyone should accept and back. I don't care if we lost to Forest in a cup competition that adds to the number of fixtures when there are already so many. Not to mention playing in the heat again.

'Cocu doesn't have a clue', 'does he not realised the importance of the fixture?' WTF.

He's the first manager we've had with undoubted quality and knowledge of bringing through youngsters. Difficult game to be make a debut, yes. But given that in the grand scheme of things the worst thing that could happen was we lost and were out of the cup (which we would be knocked out of anyway) then its great that the young players have experienced a high (of being selected) and a low (losing). Even if only one of those players walks away thinking 'I need to work harder' then its a result.

But some fans don't see that. They see a loss to Forest and it worries them that someone will message them taking the pee. Boo hoo.

Cocu would have been a young player once. Someone gave him an opportunity and he took it, going on to 100+ dutch caps and captaining Barcelona for 200+ games. How many of our academy graduates have ever hit such heights to date? a big fat zero.

Especially considering Bury's situation, making money through the academy is 100% the way forward.

Wrong wrong wrong. Don’t play all those youngsters at once. Don’t play a weak side in a competitive match. The people criticising him are spot on. Awful selection last night. 

[BBG83]

10 hours ago, Duracell said:

I wonder if Cocu knew about the rivalry

I'm sure he's well aware of rivalries all over the world.

Doesn't mean you have to treat every Derby game as do or die. Its the league cup which is more hassle than its worth.

Felt like a friendly, guessing Cocu saw it a bit like that too. Another opportunity to look at the whole squad.

[Srg]

I'm just a little bit disappointed because that team wouldn't beat any Championship B team, let alone in a local Derby. The fact it was Forest, just made it worse.

Forest have a squad of about 137 senior players, and even then they played a few players which you would say could be in their strongest XI. We was never going to compete in that game, and we just chucked out a team to lose the game. That would be disappointing against anyone.

I'm sure this will all change if we go and win on Saturday, but at the moment, I can't see that either.

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

35 minutes ago, NottsRammy said:

To be honest  I thought it was a good idea to play some kids but NOT the whole bloody side .The tie deserved respect because of the bragging right and Cocu has very under estimated it and piled a lot of pressure on himself after a slow start . What should have been done is a few regular senior pros with a sprinkling of kids .

Certain things are very worrying.

Bielik playing as a centre half ……………..for gods sake get him in at DM ……...its clear Keogh and Clarke are the 2 at the back STOP tinkering !!.

Square pegs don't go in round holes  ……….ie the fullbacks .

GET MARRIOTT on from the start and build his game time and fitness !!.

What worrying is we have no real playmaker further up the field behind the strikers , no replacement for mount , plz don't say dowell . Well ones due in Jan and now poss earlier .

Right now onto Rooney.

Rooney is worrying are we now get a has been footballer who has a lot of personal problems do we really want this THINK ABOUT IT .If he is earning god knows what and he is Boozing and generally being a T*at how does this affect the rest of our squad on LOWER wages and we expectthem to play . The rooney thing could backfire spectacularly badly .

There is now immense pressure on the next few match's Cocu has to stop tinkering now and play round pegs in round holes and a settled side .

My view of Cocu at the moment is he thinks he is a lot cleverer and than he really is and is losing games by trying to be to Clever instead of keeping it SIMPLE !! .

Jesus Christ. We aren’t even a month in, give it a rest 

[Chester40]

3 minutes ago, Davide said:

Wrong wrong wrong. Don’t play all those youngsters at once. Don’t play a weak side in a competitive match. The people criticising him are spot on. Awful selection last night. 

Genuinely interested in overall feeling... is there someone who will set up a poll...

I.e. 1) fine, we played the young players not bothered about cup.

2) bit annoyed, preferred a stronger team but suppose we move on and need to win Sat now

 3) furious, play to win every game, disrespectful of the fans...

[BBG83]

3 minutes ago, Davide said:

Wrong wrong wrong. Don’t play all those youngsters at once. Don’t play a weak side in a competitive match. The people criticising him are spot on. Awful selection last night. 

No. Not wrong. We have first teamers out injured. We don't want to add to the list.

We might well need those youngsters when injuries hit.

Its only competitive in your head. Its August, we've had a disrupted pre-season and hes taken the opportunity to use a game for his reasons, not yours.

Anyway it was 3-0 not 10-0. We could lose to any team 3-0. We could also win 3-0.

Its boring reading all the negativity - especially when if we had won the same people would be harping on about how great it is to blood the youth players. Cocu really can't win with some of you!

[jimbo jones]

1 hour ago, sawley_ram said:

Got into work this morning and already the gloating has started -- going to be a great day. Hearing the cries of "Que Sera Sera" on the radio last night is the only thing keeping me from biting.

The rivalry is a big thing for me as I live in Derbyshire but among gumps and have done all my life. The game did matter to me because of that, but ultimately the outcome doesn't really matter for Derby County.... As said already on here, Cocu did make it clear the focus is elsewhere based on the team selection. 

If it were our first team we'd put out I'd be concerned this morning, but it wasn't so I'm not.

The gloating will wear off soon anyway when they get knocked out by Burton Albion again ?

Been at work in Beeston since 6, mostly been asked why Cocu played such a weak side, and been told by a couple who went to the game they thought our youngsters looked promising from what they saw.

to be fair, im yet to encounter the more moronic of the red dogs ?

[cheron85]

10 hours ago, SuperDerbySuperRams said:

I’m genuinely quite surprised by the overreaction from our fans both on social media and on here. Cocu made it perfectly clear he was going to change the side, so I’m a bit confused by the reaction of some

Forest made just as many changes, but have a far bigger squad of season pros and had more individual quality on the pitch, which showed

If Cocu’s policy is to play second string in cup competitions, whether we draw Nottingham Forest or Newport, should he neglect his policy because we’ve been matched up against our rivals? Or should we trust the man we so overwhelmingly approved of appointing?

I'm not surprised about the over reaction - Some people will always think beating Forest is more important than anything else - More important than focus on the league, getting game time for backup players, blooding youth players or building a new way of playing under a new manager - All those things go out the window for the sake of a local rivalry

I feel bad for the people who went to the game today expecting a rip-roaring, blood and thunder cup tie - But Cocu can't afford to pander to the fans - He needs to do what he thinks is right for the squad and moving us forwards as a team

We'll stuff them in the league anyway - When we want the points ? 

[Curtains]

That’s what I thought of last nights performance 

[Sith Happens]

Just now, Curtains said:

I 

That’s a poo post

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

8 minutes ago, CocuCrazyCocuMad said:

No. Not wrong. We have first teamers out injured. We don't want to add to the list.

We might well need those youngsters when injuries hit.

Its only competitive in your head. Its August, we've had a disrupted pre-season and hes taken the opportunity to use a game for his reasons, not yours.

Anyway it was 3-0 not 10-0. We could lose to any team 3-0. We could also win 3-0.

Its boring reading all the negativity - especially when if we had won the same people would be harping on about how great it is to blood the youth players. Cocu really can't win with some of you!

Blooding youngsters is great. Just not all at once. And yes it's competitive. It's a CUP game. It's FOREST. Not just in my head. So if we play a stronger team they will all get injured? These are professional players. Why is Keogh not playing? Where was the creativity last night. It could have been 10-0. It was a stupid selection and we got what we deserve. This was Cocu's big mistake so far this season. He did not take this match seriously. 

[Spanish]

why did he play a 2nd X1?

1. his policy is and was to give a competitive game for those who can't get much time normally.  Scunny was similar with lots of changes; or
2. he thought the 1st X1 would lose to an under strength florest and he needed to subdue the criticism

either way it was a brave/foolhardy decision because he has alienated a fair few and lost their patience.  He must have known that any game v florest was very important to a significant number.

from my perspective I think he is a stubborn person who knows what he wants and will be unlikely to be swayed from that view.  I think he decided on #1 weeks ago irrespective of what round it was or who the opposition was.  Trouble is we have a lot who go who expect instant results and this hasn't helped his cause.

I hope it comes good but the squad does look weaker than last year.  I think we have some tough times to come

[Srg]

3 minutes ago, Spanish said:

why did he play a 2nd X1?

1. his policy is and was to give a competitive game for those who can't get much time normally.  Scunny was similar with lots of changes; or
2. he thought the 1st X1 would lose to an under strength florest and he needed to subdue the criticism

either way it was a brave/foolhardy decision because he has alienated a fair few and lost their patience.  He must have known that any game v florest was very important to a significant number.

from my perspective I think he is a stubborn person who knows what he wants and will be unlikely to be swayed from that view.  I think he decided on #1 weeks ago irrespective of what round it was or who the opposition was.  Trouble is we have a lot who go who expect instant results and this hasn't helped his cause.

I hope it comes good but the squad does look weaker than last year.  I think we have some tough times to come

Now would be a very good time to remind people that we haven't had a manager that's been here for multiple seasons in what seems forever, and he needs that time.

Take Norwich as a prime example, Farke was under fire 2 seasons ago, but gave him another season and he got promoted using a lot of youngsters. Now that would be a dream scenario, but it just shows that we need to let someone actually build something for once.

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

26 minutes ago, CocuCrazyCocuMad said:

The reaction to last nights game on Facebook and Twitter is embarrassing.

Cocu has a long term plan, which everyone should accept and back. I don't care if we lost to Forest in a cup competition that adds to the number of fixtures when there are already so many. Not to mention playing in the heat again.

'Cocu doesn't have a clue', 'does he not realised the importance of the fixture?' WTF.

He's the first manager we've had with undoubted quality and knowledge of bringing through youngsters. Difficult game to be make a debut, yes. But given that in the grand scheme of things the worst thing that could happen was we lost and were out of the cup (which we would be knocked out of anyway) then its great that the young players have experienced a high (of being selected) and a low (losing). Even if only one of those players walks away thinking 'I need to work harder' then its a result.

But some fans don't see that. They see a loss to Forest and it worries them that someone will message them taking the pee. Boo hoo.

Cocu would have been a young player once. Someone gave him an opportunity and he took it, going on to 100+ dutch caps and captaining Barcelona for 200+ games. How many of our academy graduates have ever hit such heights to date? a big fat zero.

Especially considering Bury's situation, making money through the academy is 100% the way forward.

Precisely ^^ ????????