Jump to content
ramsbottom

The Olympiacos B Antiques Roadshow Thread.

Recommended Posts

43 minutes ago, froggg said:

I like this Brian Fantana guy, knows his onions...

You have to admit Derby appear to be doing everything right and spending money on quality over quantity.

Frank was a good fit originally and it elevated their standing commercially and allowed them to get some outstanding loans.

They’ve then convinced Cocu to manage them.

Highlighted a weak area and so signed a quality player in Bielik.

Looked to replace Mount and signed Dowell to fit into their system.

Get Rooney who will again probably pay for itself in terms of commercial revenue through the fact they will be on tv all the time now, sell plenty of shirts, and most likely attract more fans from across the world and increase their appeal.

All whilst we continue with the Mendes scattergun approach with a squad of about 40 players under an unproven manager who barely any of us had heard of...

Share this post


Link to post

So you've gone from Frank Lampard Derby County to Wayne Rooney Derby County 😆

Jokes aside, this is an amazing piece of work. I'd be jizzing my pants if this were us signing him. He's not the Rooney of 5-7 years ago, but imagine he'll still be head and shoulders better than any other player in the championship.

80k per week mind you, Mad Mel must have scraped under the sofa for quite a while to afford those wages.. 

Share this post


Link to post
13 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said:

So you've gone from Frank Lampard Derby County to Wayne Rooney Derby County 😆

Jokes aside, this is an amazing piece of work. I'd be jizzing my pants if this were us signing him. He's not the Rooney of 5-7 years ago, but imagine he'll still be head and shoulders better than any other player in the championship.

80k per week mind you, Mad Mel must have scraped under the sofa for quite a while to afford those wages.. 

He's only going to be with us for half the season though. No transfer fee either, so thats only a couple of million that will be spent on him.

Share this post


Link to post
10 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said:

So you've gone from Frank Lampard Derby County to Wayne Rooney Derby County 😆

Jokes aside, this is an amazing piece of work. I'd be jizzing my pants if this were us signing him. He's not the Rooney of 5-7 years ago, but imagine he'll still be head and shoulders better than any other player in the championship.

80k per week mind you, Mad Mel must have scraped under the sofa for quite a while to afford those wages.. 

Sounds like he's seeing the season out with DC and won't be with us until January. 80k a week is mental if that's true, but if there's no transfer fee it's not quite so bad. 6 million total if he's here for 1 and a half years ... 10 million if it's 2 and a half. You'd probably have to pay that in transfer fees at least for a top attacking midfielder at this level (and that obviously doesn't include wages). Plus there were some suggestions in reports that sponsors are helping fund it somehow.

Share this post


Link to post
17 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said:

Sounds like he's seeing the season out with DC and won't be with us until January. 80k a week is mental if that's true, but if there's no transfer fee it's not quite so bad. 6 million total if he's here for 1 and a half years ... 10 million if it's 2 and a half. You'd probably have to pay that in transfer fees at least for a top attacking midfielder at this level (and that obviously doesn't include wages). Plus there were some suggestions in reports that sponsors are helping fund it somehow.

Probably the fact that the likes of 32red will pay twice as much if they know the likes of Rooney are wearing there logo. So it kind of pays for itself in that respect, or certainly offsets the cost. 

Bielik = good investment because we’ll almost certainly sell him on one day for more than we’ve bought him (even if he never gets any better, inflation these days means we could sell him for £15m in January). 

Rooney = good investment because of how much he’d bring in with sponsors and tv companies chomping at the bit to work with Derby county. 

You can throw as much money as you want at these players, as long as you’ve got it in the first place, and be fairly safe in the knowledge you’ll get it back. 

Share this post


Link to post

Love this quote.🤣

Fair play to the sheep, they must have connections with the golden generation of England.... Cole Lamps and Rooney... enquired about Gerrard.... whereas we just end up with foreign bags of poo that are more like a golden shower rather than a golden generation.

Share this post


Link to post
22 hours ago, Red_Dawn said:

So you've gone from Frank Lampard Derby County to Wayne Rooney Derby County 😆

Jokes aside, this is an amazing piece of work. I'd be jizzing my pants if this were us signing him. He's not the Rooney of 5-7 years ago, but imagine he'll still be head and shoulders better than any other player in the championship.

80k per week mind you, Mad Mel must have scraped under the sofa for quite a while to afford those wages.. 

I don't think affordability has ever been the issue - the issue has always been FFP.

And I've heard that Mel has pulled another rabbit from his hat. Because...

Rooney is a "player/coach". What those eagle eyed FFP followers among you will be aware of is that coaching staff salaries are not FFP accountable. Only playing staff salaries are accountable against FFP. So presumably, Mel is counting at least 50% of Rooney's salary against him being a "coach" which means that this won't have too much of an impact against FFP.

Equally, the "record breaking" sponsorship deal that has been agreed has clearly ofset the financial outlay that signing Rooney brings - also factoring in that we aren't paying a transfer fee.

Honestly, this deal is just insane.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, TibshelfRam said:

I don't think affordability has ever been the issue - the issue has always been FFP.

And I've heard that Mel has pulled another rabbit from his hat. Because...

Rooney is a "player/coach". What those eagle eyed FFP followers among you will be aware of is that coaching staff salaries are not FFP accountable. Only playing staff salaries are accountable against FFP. So presumably, Mel is counting at least 50% of Rooney's salary against him being a "coach" which means that this won't have too much of an impact against FFP.

Equally, the "record breaking" sponsorship deal that has been agreed has clearly ofset the financial outlay that signing Rooney brings - also factoring in that we aren't paying a transfer fee.

Honestly, this deal is just insane.

Coaches do count towards FFP. Where are people reading otherwise?

The only place where this 'loophole' could work is in League's 1 and 2 where SCMP is in play, and salaries are split 50/50 when they are a player coach.

Edited by td_evans

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, td_evans said:

Coaches do count towards FFP. Where are people reading otherwise?

https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/appendix-5---financial-fair-play-regulations/

"Excluded items: costs of employee benefits for employees only partly involved in Youth Development Activities (for example, a coach having part-time involvement in Youth Development Activities and otherwise working for the Championship Club);"

Mel has given reference to the fact that Rooney will be working, as a coach, with a lot of the youth development teams/the academy (Rooney even referenced this himself) - given that that will be reflected in his contract (as it is with Liam Rosenior's, as well) then that aspect of his salary is excluded from the FFP calculations. And given Mel's genius ability to circumnavigate FFP, I think its a safe bet that this will have been accounted for.

Share this post


Link to post
23 minutes ago, TibshelfRam said:

https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/appendix-5---financial-fair-play-regulations/

"Excluded items: costs of employee benefits for employees only partly involved in Youth Development Activities (for example, a coach having part-time involvement in Youth Development Activities and otherwise working for the Championship Club);"

Mel has given reference to the fact that Rooney will be working, as a coach, with a lot of the youth development teams/the academy (Rooney even referenced this himself) - given that that will be reflected in his contract (as it is with Liam Rosenior's, as well) then that aspect of his salary is excluded from the FFP calculations. And given Mel's genius ability to circumnavigate FFP, I think its a safe bet that this will have been accounted for.

Did you read the legislation? Excluded means it's excluded from the "Expenditure on Youth Development".

I.E it's included in the calculation for FFP.

Share this post


Link to post
12 minutes ago, td_evans said:

Did you read the legislation? Excluded means it's excluded from the "Expenditure on Youth Development".

I.E it's included in the calculation for FFP.

Which is precisely my point - if, as Mel and he have eluded to, his coaching focus will on the academy and the youth teams, then that part of his salary would be counted against 'Expenditure on Youth Development' so would be excluded from FFP calculations. And that seems to be the indication from the interviews yesterday.

I.e. his 'coaching' employment is as a 'youth coach', then that % of the salary doesn't count - given what was said yesterday, and Mel's previous with FFP, I don't think its too much of a stretch to believe.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

 

21 minutes ago, TibshelfRam said:

Which is precisely my point - if, as Mel and he have eluded to, his coaching focus will on the academy and the youth teams, then that part of his salary would be counted against 'Expenditure on Youth Development' so would be excluded from FFP calculations. And that seems to be the indication from the interviews yesterday.

I.e. his 'coaching' employment is as a 'youth coach', then that % of the salary doesn't count - given what was said yesterday, and Mel's previous with FFP, I don't think its too much of a stretch to believe.

Sorry we don't agree on this and there's been a lot of misinformation on Twitter about it. 

As we all know. FFP includes pretty much every playing cost, except Youth Development (Appendix B)

Under Appendix B, Clause 4, an employee must be "wholly involved in Youth Development Activities" meaning only those working solely as a Youth Coach can have their salary counted as Youth Expenditure.

The excluded items (Clause 5) is even more specific on this, this specifically excludes any employee not working full-time on Youth Development from falling within Youth Development Expenditure.

As he is only working partly as a Youth Coach, his full salary will count towards FFP.  The legislation is perfectly clear on this.

Edited by td_evans

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, td_evans said:

 

Sorry we don't agree on this and there's been a lot of misinformation on Twitter about this. 

As we all know. FFP includes pretty much every playing cost, except Youth Development (Appendix B)

Under Appendix B, Clause 4, a coach must be "wholly involved in Youth Development Activities" meaning only those working solely as a Youth Coach can have their salary counted as Youth Expenditure.

The excluded items (Clause 5) is even more specific on this, this specifically excludes any employee not working full-time on Youth Development from Youth Development Expenditure. 

As he is only working partly as a Youth Coach, his full salary will count towards FFP.  The legislation is perfectly clear on this.

It depends on interpretation. Because Appendix B, Clauses 4 & 5 make reference to coaches who are employed 'wholly' as youth coaches - there isn't specific reference to the split between playing and coaching. Given Mel's ability to circumnavigate FFP and find loopholes, nothing would surprise me.

Alas, though, unless either you or I are one of: Mel Morris, Stephen Pearce, Wayne Rooney or Paul Stretford, we'll probably never know.

All we do know, for fact, is that this deal with have no FFP implications for us. Even if his salary isn't FFP deductible, a large section of his salary is being put up by sponsors. So to revert back to the original point I made, we aren't actually losing out to FFP - no transfer fee, no exorbitant salary costs (that can be listed purely as expenditure as they are being offset by income) and Mel has managed to pull this one out of the bag without it counting against us. How, I'll never know.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

@TibshelfRamAppendix B Clause 5.2.4 make zero reference to coaches. Only employees.

"Subject to Paragraph 5.3, the following are not part of expenditure on Youth Development Activities for the purpose of this requirement:" "costs of employee benefits for employees only partly involved in Youth Development Activities" 

There is no doubt in my mind that Rooney, assuming he is an employee and plays a single game, then he is only partly involved in youth development. If Derby are using this loophole, then I would expect many legal challenges as the legislation is very specific.

Edited by td_evans

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, td_evans said:

@TibshelfRamAppendix B Clause 5.2.4 make zero reference to coaches. Only employees.

"Subject to Paragraph 5.3, the following are not part of expenditure on Youth Development Activities for the purpose of this requirement:" "costs of employee benefits for employees only partly involved in Youth Development Activities" 

There is no doubt in my mind that Rooney, assuming he is an employee and plays a single game, then he is only partly involved in youth development. If Derby are using this loophole, then I would expect many legal challenges as the legislation is very specific.

Again, I'll reiterate my point - I am not Mel Morris. I am not Wayne Rooney. I am not Paul Stretford. I am not Stephen Pearce. I have no idea what the contract is. I have no idea what loopholes they may use. And above all of that, I literally don't give a poo. In honesty, I probably couldn't care less. The whole purpose of this forum is to give opinions or suggestions and that is all I was doing. The only thing I care about is that this is an insanely good deal that will have no implications on FFP (I refer back to my previous post:

14 minutes ago, TibshelfRam said:

All we do know, for fact, is that this deal with have no FFP implications for us. Even if his salary isn't FFP deductible, a large section of his salary is being put up by sponsors. So to revert back to the original point I made, we aren't actually losing out to FFP - no transfer fee, no exorbitant salary costs (that can be listed purely as expenditure as they are being offset by income) and Mel has managed to pull this one out of the bag without it counting against us. How, I'll never know.

As for the semantics of PPF regulations and trying to get to the bottom of the exact wording of Rooney's contract, job title, job description, % of coaching time to playing time, loopholes used (which we're never going to do, anyway), I really don't care. Especially as this is a thread for providing Forest with a gentle ribbing - and that I definitely do care about.

Share this post


Link to post
27 minutes ago, td_evans said:

 

Sorry we don't agree on this and there's been a lot of misinformation on Twitter about it. 

As we all know. FFP includes pretty much every playing cost, except Youth Development (Appendix B)

Under Appendix B, Clause 4, an employee must be "wholly involved in Youth Development Activities" meaning only those working solely as a Youth Coach can have their salary counted as Youth Expenditure.

The excluded items (Clause 5) is even more specific on this, this specifically excludes any employee not working full-time on Youth Development from falling within Youth Development Expenditure.

As he is only working partly as a Youth Coach, his full salary will count towards FFP.  The legislation is perfectly clear on this.

Are you Steve Gibson ? im sure Mel has every base covered

Share this post


Link to post

England international....... we released an England international player in the summer, David Nugent.

Scrapping the barrel their chaps.

He's not a bad player, poor injury record but when's fit he'll be a solid signing.

Share this post


Link to post

I’m very interested to see how he does at Forest. I thought he was a great signing for Birmingham, but they lost every time he played. I think they went five games on the bounce losing, dropped him then went on to win their next three. 

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account.

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.