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The Olympiacos B Antiques Roadshow Thread.

ramsbottom

By ramsbottom
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td_evans

td_evans

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21 minutes ago, TibshelfRam said:

Which is precisely my point - if, as Mel and he have eluded to, his coaching focus will on the academy and the youth teams, then that part of his salary would be counted against 'Expenditure on Youth Development' so would be excluded from FFP calculations. And that seems to be the indication from the interviews yesterday.

I.e. his 'coaching' employment is as a 'youth coach', then that % of the salary doesn't count - given what was said yesterday, and Mel's previous with FFP, I don't think its too much of a stretch to believe.

Sorry we don't agree on this and there's been a lot of misinformation on Twitter about it. 

As we all know. FFP includes pretty much every playing cost, except Youth Development (Appendix B)

Under Appendix B, Clause 4, an employee must be "wholly involved in Youth Development Activities" meaning only those working solely as a Youth Coach can have their salary counted as Youth Expenditure.

The excluded items (Clause 5) is even more specific on this, this specifically excludes any employee not working full-time on Youth Development from falling within Youth Development Expenditure.

As he is only working partly as a Youth Coach, his full salary will count towards FFP.  The legislation is perfectly clear on this.

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TibshelfRam

TibshelfRam

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1 minute ago, td_evans said:

 

Sorry we don't agree on this and there's been a lot of misinformation on Twitter about this. 

As we all know. FFP includes pretty much every playing cost, except Youth Development (Appendix B)

Under Appendix B, Clause 4, a coach must be "wholly involved in Youth Development Activities" meaning only those working solely as a Youth Coach can have their salary counted as Youth Expenditure.

The excluded items (Clause 5) is even more specific on this, this specifically excludes any employee not working full-time on Youth Development from Youth Development Expenditure. 

As he is only working partly as a Youth Coach, his full salary will count towards FFP.  The legislation is perfectly clear on this.

It depends on interpretation. Because Appendix B, Clauses 4 & 5 make reference to coaches who are employed 'wholly' as youth coaches - there isn't specific reference to the split between playing and coaching. Given Mel's ability to circumnavigate FFP and find loopholes, nothing would surprise me.

Alas, though, unless either you or I are one of: Mel Morris, Stephen Pearce, Wayne Rooney or Paul Stretford, we'll probably never know.

All we do know, for fact, is that this deal with have no FFP implications for us. Even if his salary isn't FFP deductible, a large section of his salary is being put up by sponsors. So to revert back to the original point I made, we aren't actually losing out to FFP - no transfer fee, no exorbitant salary costs (that can be listed purely as expenditure as they are being offset by income) and Mel has managed to pull this one out of the bag without it counting against us. How, I'll never know.

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td_evans

td_evans

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@TibshelfRamAppendix B Clause 5.2.4 make zero reference to coaches. Only employees.

"Subject to Paragraph 5.3, the following are not part of expenditure on Youth Development Activities for the purpose of this requirement:" "costs of employee benefits for employees only partly involved in Youth Development Activities" 

There is no doubt in my mind that Rooney, assuming he is an employee and plays a single game, then he is only partly involved in youth development. If Derby are using this loophole, then I would expect many legal challenges as the legislation is very specific.

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TibshelfRam

TibshelfRam

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5 minutes ago, td_evans said:

@TibshelfRamAppendix B Clause 5.2.4 make zero reference to coaches. Only employees.

"Subject to Paragraph 5.3, the following are not part of expenditure on Youth Development Activities for the purpose of this requirement:" "costs of employee benefits for employees only partly involved in Youth Development Activities" 

There is no doubt in my mind that Rooney, assuming he is an employee and plays a single game, then he is only partly involved in youth development. If Derby are using this loophole, then I would expect many legal challenges as the legislation is very specific.

Again, I'll reiterate my point - I am not Mel Morris. I am not Wayne Rooney. I am not Paul Stretford. I am not Stephen Pearce. I have no idea what the contract is. I have no idea what loopholes they may use. And above all of that, I literally don't give a poo. In honesty, I probably couldn't care less. The whole purpose of this forum is to give opinions or suggestions and that is all I was doing. The only thing I care about is that this is an insanely good deal that will have no implications on FFP (I refer back to my previous post:

14 minutes ago, TibshelfRam said:

All we do know, for fact, is that this deal with have no FFP implications for us. Even if his salary isn't FFP deductible, a large section of his salary is being put up by sponsors. So to revert back to the original point I made, we aren't actually losing out to FFP - no transfer fee, no exorbitant salary costs (that can be listed purely as expenditure as they are being offset by income) and Mel has managed to pull this one out of the bag without it counting against us. How, I'll never know.

As for the semantics of PPF regulations and trying to get to the bottom of the exact wording of Rooney's contract, job title, job description, % of coaching time to playing time, loopholes used (which we're never going to do, anyway), I really don't care. Especially as this is a thread for providing Forest with a gentle ribbing - and that I definitely do care about.

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Premier ram

Premier ram

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27 minutes ago, td_evans said:

 

Sorry we don't agree on this and there's been a lot of misinformation on Twitter about it. 

As we all know. FFP includes pretty much every playing cost, except Youth Development (Appendix B)

Under Appendix B, Clause 4, an employee must be "wholly involved in Youth Development Activities" meaning only those working solely as a Youth Coach can have their salary counted as Youth Expenditure.

The excluded items (Clause 5) is even more specific on this, this specifically excludes any employee not working full-time on Youth Development from falling within Youth Development Expenditure.

As he is only working partly as a Youth Coach, his full salary will count towards FFP.  The legislation is perfectly clear on this.

Are you Steve Gibson ? im sure Mel has every base covered

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SSD

SSD

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England international....... we released an England international player in the summer, David Nugent.

Scrapping the barrel their chaps.

He's not a bad player, poor injury record but when's fit he'll be a solid signing.

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TibshelfRam

TibshelfRam

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27 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Jenkinson will probably do a job for a lower mid-table Championship club, he's not an awful defender. Aint Wayne Rooney though is it?

Agreed - decent right back ,especially at this level. Bigger question mark over whether he can stay fit. Could be another Sam Byram for them.

I was more getting at the use of the phrase 'England international' in the welcome tweet. I suspect that wouldn't have been done had it not been for yesterday. Checking back on our old tweets, we didn't welcome 'England international' David Nugent to the Rams - what a missed opportunity.

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Millenniumram

Millenniumram

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Carl jenkinson hasn’t been an England international in years, desperate claim by forest? 

Poor player as well whenever I’ve seen him, can’t defend and clocks off all the time. Not surprised he’s had to drop all the way down to the second tier. Mind the three year contract is almost sensible by forest who love a good long deal (billy....)

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Phoenix

Phoenix

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8 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

Carl jenkinson hasn’t been an England international in years, desperate claim by forest? 

Poor player as well whenever I’ve seen him, can’t defend and clocks off all the time. Not surprised he’s had to drop all the way down to the second tier. Mind the three year contract is almost sensible by forest who love a good long deal (billy....)

 

Are they still paying him?

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ramsbottom

ramsbottom

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From The Guardian's live updates - 

Big news out of Tottenham ... 6ft1in defender Cameron Carter-Vickers has joined Stoke City on a season-long loan. There are more goings on in the Championship too, with Nottingham Forest busying themselves. John Bostock is close to a move, as is the defender Chema Rodriguez. Luke Steele has departed on loan for Millwall, who needed to strengthen in goal following injury to Frank Fielding. Forest appear to be stockpiling, contrary to Sabri Lamouchi’s wishes. Last week he said working with 29-31 first-team players was “impossible”. Since then they have added Brice Samba and Carl Jenkinson, with seemingly more signings to follow.

Looks as though their bakery bothering chairman is doing what he wants again...

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Gee SCREAMER !!

Gee SCREAMER !!

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9 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

From The Guardian's live updates - 

Big news out of Tottenham ... 6ft1in defender Cameron Carter-Vickers has joined Stoke City on a season-long loan. There are more goings on in the Championship too, with Nottingham Forest busying themselves. John Bostock is close to a move, as is the defender Chema Rodriguez. Luke Steele has departed on loan for Millwall, who needed to strengthen in goal following injury to Frank Fielding. Forest appear to be stockpiling, contrary to Sabri Lamouchi’s wishes. Last week he said working with 29-31 first-team players was “impossible”. Since then they have added Brice Samba and Carl Jenkinson, with seemingly more signings to follow.

Looks as though their bakery bothering chairman is doing what he wants again...

That'll be a first team squad of 45 now then .  Think there may be a few more locked in the cupboard with no squad number this year as well.

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Shipley Ram

Shipley Ram

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From their forum, they know their squad is bloated.

Re: Current state of the squad

Originally Posted by Notcher

Pinched this off Twatter but I thought it was funny

"Ministry of the football league have confirmed that we're never more than six feet away from a Forest player" #NFFC

Credit @robbothered1

Sent from my sweaty palms using Tapatalk

I saw one similar on Twitter last night, which made me chuckle

"Scientists estimate that by the year 2045 all human life on earth will have signed for Nottingham Forest"

Credit to @jonnyGabriel

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TibshelfRam

TibshelfRam

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49 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

From The Guardian's live updates - 

Big news out of Tottenham ... 6ft1in defender Cameron Carter-Vickers has joined Stoke City on a season-long loan. There are more goings on in the Championship too, with Nottingham Forest busying themselves. John Bostock is close to a move, as is the defender Chema Rodriguez. Luke Steele has departed on loan for Millwall, who needed to strengthen in goal following injury to Frank Fielding. Forest appear to be stockpiling, contrary to Sabri Lamouchi’s wishes. Last week he said working with 29-31 first-team players was “impossible”. Since then they have added Brice Samba and Carl Jenkinson, with seemingly more signings to follow.

Looks as though their bakery bothering chairman is doing what he wants again...

How out of character...

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