The Politics Thread 2019

[Norman]

It's interesting for Labour in the long run. 

They might lose seats in areas they never have before. They are also losing votes to people who have never voted Conservative before. 

Once the taboo of voting Conservatives in those areas are broken, it will be very hard for Labour to reverse it. 

Massive long-term damage done by Corbyn and Momentum. Probably irreversible. 

[TuffLuff]

16 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

I really hope that you lads on here who believe the NHS is safe under a Johnson government are right. I have personal reasons for needing a NHS, I have personal experience of the austerity cuts that have decimated parts of it. I lost my Dad 7 weeks ago after a long illness and the pain and misery him and mum went through because of the murderous cuts to social services under the Conservative government will live with me forever.

During our many hours spent recently in Hospitals, Care homes, meetings with care professionals, it is evident that the system is broken because of the savage cuts from central government to local councils, all to accommodate tax cuts for high earners and Corporation Tax cuts for big  business plus allowing huge multi-national corporations to evade tax by registering their companies in tax havens. This is real money, not a magic money tree, real money that is siphoned out of our country for the benefit of people who have no allegiance to my country.

I hate seeing doped up teenagers walking round like zombies, I hate seeing beggars and homeless all over our cities, I hate seeing our public services sacrificed at the behest of corporate interests who have no loyalty to the UK.

I will join the Labour Party tomorrow. I will become an "activist" as one poster calls the 13 million people who vote Labour. I will fight and campaign for a new leader of Labour who will back the socialist principles of public services ran for the people who need them, not the people who profit from them. Corbyn needs to step down, not because of his beliefs or principles, he is the most honest and decent Party leader in my lifetime, but he has no way of fighting back against the greatest character attack in our history. The full might of the big money, off shore financiers, media owners and foreign governments determined to keep corporate interests above our country's interest have been deployed against him. They will also be deployed against any future Labour leader who has the temerity to put people before profit.

There is no perfect system of government, never has been, but there is a better system than the race to the bottom, there is no reason at all that we can't combine a socialist centre with an entrepreneurial economy. We've done it before and you know what, it wasn't a bad place to grow up in. I loved the country I grew up in, my little town could afford a manned Police Station, a Railway station that had waiting rooms and toilets, with trains running to get people to work early and home late. We had full time firemen, we had Park rangers, we had an Ambulance station, we had a magistrates court, but 40 years later we can't afford any of them even though the country is the 5th richest in the world........pointless going on, the damage is done for now.  I just hope enough people will have the courage and wisdom to fight for a better future for the generations to come like my mum and dad's generation did for us.

 

 

I’ll be doing the same and joining the Labour Party. 

Sorry for your loss mate. 

[G STAR RAM]

7 minutes ago, Steve Buckley’s Dog said:

You wouldn’t think of taking a photo as evidence of the appalling standard of care in the hope that somehow it prevented someone else being let down the same way; to highlight what is actually going on, to demonstrate your anger?

Not if it meant my child, who was suffering from pneumonia was left lying on a floor, no I wouldn't.

I think my anger would either wait until my child was better or would be discussed with a member of staff there and then.

Did we really need a photo to prove that the NHS can not cope with the pressure it is under?

[SaintRam]

Anyway; Im off to sleep. I shall return to my very limited following of this thread until something draws me back in for the few hours I can stand.

As should always be the mantra of losing voters: I hope everything works out for everyone here over the next few years. Wanting to be proved wrong is all I can hope for now; 

If all my concerns are proved right that means everyones unhappy.

Silver linings for "I told you so" only work when things dont matter; like football.

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Argue the case for private healthcare if thats what you believe in. Lets have honest debate instead of silly political point scoring.

Not sure of your point?

I dont want a private healthcare system.

I want an NHS that is funded properly and also is not abused.

I dont need a picture of a child on the floor to prove that it is underfunded.

[1of4]

19 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

Will be interesting to see how thick skinned some of the new tories that look like becoming MPs in a number of northern constituencies are.  When confronted with the real problems faced by their constituents, will they blindly follow the party line or will they rebel and force the tories to do more for all the people struggling in our country.

What was I thinking of cause they'll follow the party line. They were hand picked by conservative central office, to do exactly what the the tory leadership want.

[Gritstone Ram]

5 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Argue the case for private healthcare if thats what you believe in. Lets have honest debate instead of silly political point scoring.

I think the utilities nationalisation was a waste of money. It may have worked but investment over the past 30 years has outstripped any government investment. I think Labour have lost it on Brexit. They didn’t have a leave or remain. The conservatives got rid of any doubters and said this is where we stand.

[Norman]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

Not sure of your point?

I dont want a private healthcare system.

I want an NHS that is funded properly and also is not abused.

I dont need a picture of a child on the floor to prove that it is underfunded.

We should be debating why it is so overcrowded. Not bashing political parties.

The fault lies at a lot of people's door. You can't just say it's the Tories. The stats don't back it up. 

Infrastructure, population, NHS management, local government etc all needs debating. 

[ariotofmyown]

8 minutes ago, Norman said:

It's interesting for Labour in the long run. 

They might lose seats in areas they never have before. They are also losing votes to people who have never voted Conservative before. 

Once the taboo of voting Conservatives in those areas are broken, it will be very hard for Labour to reverse it. 

Massive long-term damage done by Corbyn and Momentum. Probably irreversible. 

I don't really know of any Tory policies to help people in the poorer, Northerner areas though.

When the "Get Brexit Done" myth comes out in the wash, there could be a huge number of new Tory voters vowing to never back them again. Likewise, screwing up the economy is not going to work with traditional Tory areas either.

Maybe the new lot of Tory MPs might be more competent than the current lot. The cabinet is hopeless. Damning on Labour that they couldn't beat people like Patel, Javid, Rabb, Gove etc. 

[Ambitious]

9 minutes ago, Norman said:

It's interesting for Labour in the long run. 

They might lose seats in areas they never have before. They are also losing votes to people who have never voted Conservative before. 

Once the taboo of voting Conservatives in those areas are broken, it will be very hard for Labour to reverse it. 

Massive long-term damage done by Corbyn and Momentum. Probably irreversible. 

It's only irreversible if Conservatives do a good job. It's as simple as that. 

IF, and I'm not saying any of this will happen, the NHS goes private. IF we suffer an economic crisis. IF Brexit proves to be chaotic and causes the man in the street to suffer. It will cause a reaction, reactions typically lead to change. 

Conservatives have the opportunity to do a good job, if they do then they should stay in power. I doubt anyone will argue with that - I know some people are staunch blue and staunch red will disagree, but by and large if he makes everyone's life in this country better then that's all that everyone wants. 

[uttoxram75]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not sure of your point?

I dont want a private healthcare system.

I want an NHS that is funded properly and also is not abused.

I dont need a picture of a child on the floor to prove that it is underfunded.

I apologise. Your posts gave me the impression you was against the NHS and preferred a private healthcare system.

I assume that everyone who votes Conservative wants a private healthcare system. If I'm wrong in that assumption then I'm happy to discuss and debate with anyone.

[TuffLuff]

14 minutes ago, Norman said:

It's interesting for Labour in the long run. 

They might lose seats in areas they never have before. They are also losing votes to people who have never voted Conservative before. 

Once the taboo of voting Conservatives in those areas are broken, it will be very hard for Labour to reverse it. 

Massive long-term damage done by Corbyn and Momentum. Probably irreversible. 

Everything in the next 5 years is on a Conservative government though. They now have to own Brexit, the NHS and every political decision

This long term damage thing is going to work both ways. 

[Gritstone Ram]

8 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

I apologise. Your posts gave me the impression you was against the NHS and preferred a private healthcare system.

I assume that everyone who votes Conservative wants a private healthcare system. If I'm wrong in that assumption then I'm happy to discuss and debate with anyone.

You are stuck in the 70’s pal. Let’s judge the next 5 years it’s not selling off the NHS it’s managing it and the rest of the countries budget not being reckless. Brexit is the main thing that has cost Labour on their grounds.

[Norman]

4 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

Everything in the next 5 years is on a Conservative government though. They now have to own Brexit, the NHS and every political decision

This long term damage thing is going to work both ways. 

And they could do it. 

My main point, which is being missed, which is probably my fault for bad wording, is that now people have voted Conservative, and people speak openly about voting Conservative in these areas, the taboo is gone. 

And once it is gone, it is gone. Which means all future elections will be more difficult for Labour. 

 

[1of4]

Well anyone care to predict what type of brexit the country will end up with now? 

Or is the answer still leave means leave.

When will leave, the day when we stop paying money to the EU, actually happen. One, two three years time.

Or could we still end up with, Rees-Mogg 's wet dream, of a hard brexit.

[ariotofmyown]

1 minute ago, Norman said:

And they could do it. 

My main point, which is being missed, which is probably my fault for bad wording, is that now people have voted Conservative, and people speak openly about voting Conservative in these areas, the taboo is gone. 

And once it is gone, it is gone. Which means all future elections will be more difficult for Labour. 

 

It will be taboo still. They can admit it as one off for Brexit. Or because Corbyn was part of the London 'elite'.

But voting Tory should always be taboo. Voting Tory is about greed.

5 years with no Climate action should finish us off. Proper Taboo.

Under his eye.

[Norman]

16 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

I apologise. Your posts gave me the impression you was against the NHS and preferred a private healthcare system.

I assume that everyone who votes Conservative wants a private healthcare system. If I'm wrong in that assumption then I'm happy to discuss and debate with anyone.

You're wrong in that assumption. And I think you know it.

Do you think Mass immigration has put the NHS under huge strain? 

Do you think management in the NHS needs reforming? 

Do you think that even though we spend more than ever in real terms and as a percentage of taxes that it is being underfunded on purpose by the Conservatives? 

Do you think that Labour selling off more of the NHS than anyone else makes you sound about hypocritical surrounding your stance on the Conservatives? 

Do you think hospitals such as the one in question are struggling with being overcrowded due to the population rising sharply?

How much and how long are you willing to spend building new hospitals?

Do you think 300,000 people using the NHS extra a year is helping with overcrowding? 

Do you believe that, immigrants making a positive contribution to this country on average, are paying enough taxes to build all this new infrastructure? Or are we having to spend more taxes than ever to keep up with demand? 

Do you thin nk this country has a problem with the abuse of the NHS? Binge drinking, fighting, A and E admittance when they really don't need it etc?

Do you think the Tory majority would push through new legislation to change how the NHS is protected by law from any FTAs? 

Why would they? It would be political suicide. 

[Norman]

2 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

It will be taboo still. They can admit it as one off for Brexit. Or because Corbyn was part of the London 'elite'.

But voting Tory should always be taboo. Voting Tory is about greed.

5 years with no Climate action should finish us off. Proper Taboo.

Under his eye.

I disagree. People are speaking more openly about voting Conservative than ever before in working class areas. 

[TuffLuff]

8 minutes ago, Norman said:

And they could do it. 

My main point, which is being missed, which is probably my fault for bad wording, is that now people have voted Conservative, and people speak openly about voting Conservative in these areas, the taboo is gone. 

And once it is gone, it is gone. Which means all future elections will be more difficult for Labour. 

 

With respect mate, I think there’s maybe a slight bit of over thinking there with regard to taboos. Once Brexit is considered ‘done’, possibly in the coming weeks, then we shall see how the agenda changes.

Another thing to consider, with Blythe Valley being a good example, is that if these ex mining towns only have a slim majority for the stories then how far will Johnson go to give them what they want in terms of infrastructure etc? I mean who much swag does that MP have?
 

Maybe I’m over thinking it now, it’s 1 in the morning!

[uttoxram75]

12 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

You are stuck in the 70’s pal. Let’s judge the next 5 years it’s not selling off the NHS it’s managing it and the rest of the countries budget not being reckless. Brexit is the main thing that has cost Labour on their grounds.

You have a lot of confidence in the Conservatives to improve life for ordinary people. I hope your right.