Jump to content

The Politics Thread 2019


David

Recommended Posts

7 hours ago, dcfcfan1 said:

Everyone on here seems labour, twitter and fb seems labour- how do the tories keep winning? I voted tory, but Im confused and pleasantly surprised lol

Probably because the leftie social media bubble isn't as all inclusive as they like to think, its just an echo chamber for a small number of people to whip themselves up into a frenzy. 

Found this chart last night, its not meant to be accurate just helps explain my point. 

ELnZ-JWXUAEOdo5.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 12.4k
  • Created
  • Last Reply
4 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

What's his plan now I wonder. I saw him briefly on TV saying that if the Tories got a majority and tried to pass the Withdrawal Agreement as it stands that he would be totally against that?! A shame he (yet again) has zero MPs

When i saw him he didnt really seem to know what he wanted, something about half a loaf is better than none or something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

What's his plan now I wonder. I saw him briefly on TV saying that if the Tories got a majority and tried to pass the Withdrawal Agreement as it stands that he would be totally against that?! A shame he (yet again) has zero MPs

In his interview with Andrew Neil last night he was quizzed repeatedly about going to the States to work for Trump which he denied.

He also mentioned that the the Brexit Party would evolve into a Reform Party and campaign the next political injustice for example the current first past the post electoral system

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

What's his plan now I wonder. I saw him briefly on TV saying that if the Tories got a majority and tried to pass the Withdrawal Agreement as it stands that he would be totally against that?! A shame he (yet again) has zero MPs

He plans to go over and help Trump.
 

He has said he will “oppose” it, however he feels that some sort of Brexit is better than none.

I got the feeling that he is satisfied now, he is now ready to move onto something else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

A gamble? It was political suicide and a complete failure to gauge public opinion.

People are sick of 'dither and delay'.

He simply had to jump one way or another.

Another Referendum would break politics for a generation in my opinion.

I voted Remain, I voted Conservative.

So by all accounts those two don't add-up. But I am of the view I just want this doing now, I want to leave with a deal, I will be massively disappointed if we end up leaving with no deal which I think was the biggest risk of the 'dither and delay' policy.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, 1of4 said:

Yep the faster us old gits die off, the better it'll be for the future of the world.

I thought in the years since the referendum that had already happened to a certain extent?

I thought the millions of new registered voters, mostly young voters, was supposed to have an impact?

I've been watching the news this morning and whilst Brexit was a factor, a lot of people on all sides are saying that its the hard left policies that put a lot of people off.   The current state of the left makes them unelectable both here and in the US and its really bad for politics.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

Even if thats true, which is speculation, perhaps they didn't like what was in the labour manifesto, perhaps those that voted leave felt the threat of a second referendum was too much to risk.

Perhaps JC should have understood his supporters before making those promises.

I cannot believe this labour loss was down to one single issue.

 

It wasn't. Was down to JC as a personality and as a leader and lack of leadership, the party pledges in the build up to the election, the fact that they were seen to want to delay Brexit again which was totally against their commitments from 2017, that a lot of traditional Labour voters voted for the Brexit Party which then allowed the Tory candidate to overturn the majority in that constituency the list goes on 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

This is true. But hard to see what the alternative was. Being full Remain wasn't an option (look how it turned out for the LibDems), but then nor would being full Leave -they'd have lost just as many seats. The neutral stance was the gamble and it failed. 

Except see above - only 47% of the vote share was for pro-Leave parties in the end. That's the problem - we're still in a position where half the public don't want to leave

Why wasnt being full leave an option? 75% of their 200 non London seats voted to leave. Maybe they would have lost some of their 50 London seats, but they've lost 59 seats anyway backing neither side. If they had picked leave i very much doubt they would have lost so many northern sests - in fact id expect them to have won a large number back from the Tories. Picking neither side was the worst possible choice for them.

47% of voters backing Brexit parties cannot be equated to 47% of people backing Brexit - their are huge numbers of people who would never vote anything other than Labour but still back Brexit. Same can be said of the Tories in the south - they would never vote anyone other Tories despite being strong remain areas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Question for the Labour disillusioned here: what do you want to see for a future for the Labour Party?

A party prepared to invest to drive growth in the form similar to the last manifesto which crashed with the electorate? Or a party similar to the divisive one of Blair, softer than the Tories with regards to public services and spending, but not at all radical? No increased taxes, move it around a little bit, encourage more private investment in public services.

I think there's a queue of people like Kier Starmer who will be gagging to get a chance to lead the party back to the 90s, but hundreds of thousands of new members wanting a distinct choice from the blue and yellow options already on display.

I struggle to see the need for a centrist Labour. What separates them from the Lib Dems?

I want common sense 

I want controlled  public spending 

I want controlled immigration 

I want a sensible and fair taxation system and one that doesn’t allow off shore holdings, trusts set ups in the Cayman Islands so certain wealthy companies who should be paying x amount tax like the rest of us pay next to nothing under the guise of being ‘tax efficient’ wherein truth it’d blatant tax evasion 

if labour go far left again then we can welcome another god knows how many years of Tory rule 

kinnock never got in with it and neither did corbyn... Blair’s the only one in my lifetime  so surely doesn’t that tell us what we need to know 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

I voted Remain, I voted Conservative.

So by all accounts those two don't add-up. But I am of the view I just want this doing now, I want to leave with a deal, I will be massively disappointed if we end up leaving with no deal which I think was the biggest risk of the 'dither and delay' policy.

 

Genuine question 

if labour had a leader that was left of centre and not far left and had put their flag firmly in the remain camp 

would u have voted for them ?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Question for the Labour disillusioned here: what do you want to see for a future for the Labour Party?

A party prepared to invest to drive growth in the form similar to the last manifesto which crashed with the electorate? Or a party similar to the divisive one of Blair, softer than the Tories with regards to public services and spending, but not at all radical? No increased taxes, move it around a little bit, encourage more private investment in public services.

I think there's a queue of people like Kier Starmer who will be gagging to get a chance to lead the party back to the 90s, but hundreds of thousands of new members wanting a distinct choice from the blue and yellow options already on display.

I struggle to see the need for a centrist Labour. What separates them from the Lib Dems?

I wonder if the first-past-the-post system needs to be exploited and an official broad coalition of centre and left parties needs to be formed? The smaller parties are almost pointless working by themselves.

Could Labour and Lib Dems possibly form into a progressive English party that can have some official pact with Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland parties. Could campaign for a devolved English parliament and decide what powers each individual country has vs what laws the UK as a whole keeps.

Feels like bigger ideas are needed than just the same old rubbish party politics. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Genuine question 

if labour had a leader that was left of centre and not far left and had put their flag firmly in the remain camp 

would u have voted for them ?

 

I dont think i would have voted for anyone who was going to introduce another round of delays.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Genuine question 

if labour had a leader that was left of centre and not far left and had put their flag firmly in the remain camp 

would u have voted for them ?

 

I voted remain, however how can you support a party that wouldn’t uphold the outcome of a public vote.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

if labour had a leader that was left of centre and not far left

If? You just described Corbyn. The notion that his agenda was "far left" has been pushed on you by the right wing newspapers. Not that you'll admit it

It's no different to the policies of the social democratic scandinavian countries and no one calls them "far left". 

One thing we've not mentioned as a factor in the Labour defeat is that we've had another 2 years of relentless character assassination and smears from the right wing press. It's now just so ingrained in people's psyche that he's a far left, terrorist sympathiser, anti-semitic, threat to national security that he stood no chance.

I suspect the replies to this comment will tell me I'm wrong whilst simultaneously proving me right haha

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Paul71 said:

I dont think i would have voted for anyone who was going to introduce another round of delays.

 

The only positive I can see in all this is that all the decisions surrounding Brexit will be done. By the next election, I hope that Brexit isn't a big issue. It won't be completed, but it'll be probably half way. The broad strokes will have been agreed and I think we'll be still in some form of transition period, but I can't see it being divisive. Damaging, but not divisive.

The really odd thing for me is, considering how important a topic it is, I can't see us not being back in. The youth of today are massively pro EU, so it's only time before they get to push forward and re-join.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, AdamRam said:

I voted remain, however how can you support a party that wouldn’t uphold the outcome of a public vote.

I think Corbyn misread what the public wanted. He saw a potential shift in public feeling towards leaving and thought simply it would be a vote winner.

I am a bit surprised that the reported support from the younger generation didn't seem to materialize, i guess we will see when more indepth statistics come out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Me neither

It's just all a bit puzzling because we're looking at it as a General Election - when in fact it was to all intents and purposes, a proxy second referendum, except done under General Election FPTP rules.

The Tories won because northern Labour leave voters lent them a vote to "get Brexit done". I don't think any of them voted Tory because they like whatever was in the Tory manifesto

Isn't that the root of problem though, 25% of Labour seats are in London whereas the majority of the rest of the country wants to leave the EU. 

The Brexit referendum may have been a close 52-48 but iirc something like 450/600 constituencies voted to leave.

I'm all for a fairer system of voting, one in which each vote counts but if we adopted a simple PR system the country would be held to the whims of London and other big cities.  Similar applies in the US, Trump lost the popular vote but won via the electoral college - if they drop that 80% of the country is ignored and politics is dominated by the coasts. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...