GboroRam Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 44 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: Really, have we not seen the exact opposite throughout the Brexit debate with Tories voting against their party? How many were suspended? How many haven't stood for re-election? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, Bound 2 tease said: I don't think it'll the BJ show, but I do think they'll all do as they're told and be rewarded handsomely for doing F.A. Interesting that all the Tory candidates have been made to sign a pledge that says that are in favour of Johnson’s Brexit deal as a pre-requisite for their endorsement to stand. In Derby North Amanda Solloway was an ardent remainer and there are photos of her from 2016 campaigning outside Derby Cathedral with a large Remain flag. Now she whole-heartedly support Leave? Do me a favour I guess she really wants to get her nose back in the trough eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, ossieram said: So we're 538 pages in and the election is tomorrow! Who has had their mind changed and will vote for another party based on the discussion on here? Me. I'm voting Tory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 Just now, GboroRam said: How many were suspended? How many haven't stood for re-election? How many are still there? They still voted against the government though didnt they, went against the party whip. Did Labour not force Leavers on their side of the benches, to vote with the party line? You really can't have it both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 17 minutes ago, maxjam said: Go on then you'll have to explain it to me in more detail. I thought I said that successive governments have under-funded the NHS. I haven't given the Tories a free pass but I'm also not naive enough to think that the previous Labour government didn't do exactly the same thing or that the sad situation hasn't been exploited for political gain. All previous governments have underfunded the NHS. Tony Blair did some good things, but not enough and the extra funding was quickly grasped back by subsequent governments. Labour are promising, and have consistently promised, to increase funding to the NHS. The Tories cut funding, and towards the end of the electioneering period, have promised more money. I don't trust them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, ossieram said: So we're 538 pages in and the election is tomorrow! Who has had their mind changed and will vote for another party based on the discussion on here? Me, I am voting for the UK Fascist Party now apparently. I was going to vote Tory but now that's changed. Apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bound 2 tease Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 11 minutes ago, maxjam said: Go on then you'll have to explain it to me in more detail. I thought I said that successive governments have under-funded the NHS. I haven't given the Tories a free pass but I'm also not naive enough to think that the previous Labour government didn't do exactly the same thing or that the sad situation hasn't been exploited for political gain. I hate to tell you this but the time frame I gave was 10 years....I'm not an underfunding denier, but can you count ? If you want to live in the past,would you like to go back to 1943 and quite possibly the most shameful moment in British history ? I'll let you guess the party, and you can google its relevance to tomorrow's vote I'll give you some clues Anthony Eden, Eleanor Rathbone , freedom of movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtoileSportiveDeDerby Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Tall oaks from little acorns grow and all that... Glad you agree that the NHS should only be open to free use for British citizens or people that contribute to the system though, you are learning quickly. What would a reasonable level of contribution for non British citizens be ? Students in this country pay £9250 foreign student pay a lot more , is that what we are talking about ? or are we saying a non British citizen pay their taxes here they get free NHS, the moment they are unemployed no free NHS. Curious to find out how it would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Bound 2 tease said: I hate to tell you this but the time frame I gave was 10 years....I'm not an underfunding denier, but can you count ? Right, thats what I thought you said. I said that the NHS is underfunded and you're not denying that. Not sure what we're arguing about tbh. 7 minutes ago, Bound 2 tease said: If you want to live in the past,would you like to go back to 1943 and quite possibly the most shameful moment in British history ? I'll let you guess the party, and you can google its relevance to tomorrow's vote I'll give you some clues Anthony Eden, Eleanor Rathbone , freedom of movement. I simply made the point that successive governments have under-funded the NHS. But yeah I do think that Labour cutting in excess of 25000 beds during 2005-2010 and selling off parts of the NHS is more relevant than anything that happened in the 1940s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 I'm not voting Conservative, which means the value of my vote has been effectively reduced to 0. Fabricant could dress in an SS uniform, goose step up Lichfield city centre then kick a child in the face and he'd still get a majority of 25,000+ A voting system that gives some votes more weight than others is fundimentally flawed. People that live in swing seats of any voting persuasion have more say in this election than I do. I do not believe that is fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 7 minutes ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said: What would a reasonable level of contribution for non British citizens be ? Students in this country pay £9250 foreign student pay a lot more , is that what we are talking about ? or are we saying a non British citizen pay their taxes here they get free NHS, the moment they are unemployed no free NHS. Curious to find out how it would work. Not something I've put a lot of thought into to be honest. I know soneone though that flew a relative over to have an operation to be carried out free on the NHS, despite the fact she had never lived here and never contributed to the system, that just cant be right surely? I also saw an article yesterday regarding how much we pay other EU countries for healthcare in comparison to what we receive, it was shocking. Not sure how legitimate the claims were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 15 minutes ago, GboroRam said: All previous governments have underfunded the NHS. Tony Blair did some good things, but not enough and the extra funding was quickly grasped back by subsequent governments. Labour are promising, and have consistently promised, to increase funding to the NHS. The Tories cut funding, and towards the end of the electioneering period, have promised more money. I don't trust them. Has NHS funding ever been cut? They has asked for cuts to be made but the budget continues to rise. https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget https://fullfact.org/health/spending-english-nhs/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 27 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: Yet another strange Bamford in politics. "Do you want to come back to my place? I've got prosecco and chocolate body paint..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 This is an interesting article on the question of borrowing to spend.... Can governments ever run out of money? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50579897 FWIW (probably not a lot) I agree with the conclusions of Economist Frances Coppola towards the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shang Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, maxjam said: Has NHS funding ever been cut? They has asked for cuts to be made but the budget continues to rise. https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget https://fullfact.org/health/spending-english-nhs/ They number of pounds has not been cut, but the number hasn't been increased enough to keep up with inflation, which in real terms is a cut. The Labour Party in power had traditionally increased NHS funding by around 5% to keep up with inflation and then a bit more. The Conservatives since they have been in power has only been increasing funding by around 0.5% which has not been enough to offset inflation. It is true the budget has risen but not enough to counter the value of the pound being worth less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 28 minutes ago, ossieram said: So we're 538 pages in and the election is tomorrow! Who has had their mind changed and will vote for another party based on the discussion on here? There's been some good discussion on here - from both sides, some of which has made me think but ultimately I judge the parties on what they say/do. That said, and despite wanting Brexit to happen I can't bring myself to vote for any of them this time. You couldn't pay me to vote Tory but you'd have to shoot me to vote Labour. Without raking up old arguments imo there are pro's and con's in either winning, I just hope there is an outright winner. Might be nice to have a Poll though, see how closely aligned the result of the dcfcfans forums is with the actual result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 7 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said: I'm not voting Conservative, which means the value of my vote has been effectively reduced to 0. Fabricant could dress in an SS uniform, goose step up Lichfield city centre then kick a child in the face and he'd still get a majority of 25,000+ A voting system that gives some votes more weight than others is fundimentally flawed. People that live in swing seats of any voting persuasion have more say in this election than I do. I do not believe that is fair. Long term safe-seat MPs - turn into cartoon characters. Short-term Marginal MPs - usually have to remain human beings and do stuff for the constituency. When a party gets thumped at a GE, the latter are wiped out, the former stay in Westminster, become even more looney-tunes. I would change it so that an individual can only do two terms as an MP, three if they become a front bench minister, Normal people can plot a 10 yrs stint into their careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, WhiteHorseRam said: Long term safe-seat MPs - turn into cartoon characters. Short-term Marginal MPs - usually have to remain human beings and do stuff for the constituency. When a party gets thumped at a GE, the latter are wiped out, the former stay in Westminster, become even more looney-tunes. I would change it so that an individual can only do two terms as an MP, three if they become a front bench minister, Normal people can plot a 10 yrs stint into their careers. That might help but I suspect that the conservatives could run a cardboard cutout of an MP in Lichfield and still get a whopper majority. Although based on my experience of the man a cardboard cutout would be preferable to Fabricant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 For Fridge Sake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 Whilst you always have to be aware of edited and isolated clips, this video is extremely compelling: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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