The Politics Thread 2019

[G STAR RAM]

8 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

You shouldn't expect preferential tax laws. We all contribute. Otherwise we end up in a situation where we can't afford to fund a working NHS and don't have beds for children when they need them.

Tall oaks from little acorns grow and all that...

Glad you agree that the NHS should only be open to free use for British citizens or people that contribute to the system though, you are learning quickly.

[Sith Happens]

35 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

 

 

And here in a nutshell is Labours attitude towards small business and entrepreneurship.

If you want to run a business you're no longer than normal guy in the street and you shouldnt expect any incentives to help you kick start the business.

 

11 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

You shouldn't expect preferential tax laws. We all contribute. Otherwise we end up in a situation where we can't afford to fund a working NHS and don't have beds for children when they need them.

For me I think there should be incentives for a 'period of time' to help you kick start the business, pretty sure there is anyway?

I am not an expert so not going to define what the period of time should be, but after that period the incentives should be removed, maybe gradually, there has to come a time when the business should be able to stand on its own two feet and all the appropriate taxes paid the same as anyone else.

 

[jono]

Right, it’s match day so I’m turning off my colour telly and leaving the thread for a couple of days. I’m off the match thread .. it’s all black and white there. 
 

Come on Derby let’s do it for Jim 

[G STAR RAM]

29 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

 

For me I think there should be incentives for a 'period of time' to help you kick start the business, pretty sure there is anyway?

I am not an expert so not going to define what the period of time should be, but after that period the incentives should be removed, maybe gradually, there has to come a time when the business should be able to stand on its own two feet and all the appropriate taxes paid the same as anyone else.

 

The problem is that a policy would take a little bit of thinking and business logic from people who have never worked in the real world and therefore dont understand what it's like trying to start a business up.

[Stive Pesley]

2 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

Go on, what’s on age 48? I’m interested what will turn us into a dictatorship..

I suspect you'll say "what's wrong with that?" - but I think it's worrying to see them say they will update parliamentary boundaries and keep FPTP. This is basic gerrymandering designed to change boundaries in the favour of the incumbent party - and should always be treated with suspicion (yes even if Labour were suggesting it)

Mandatory Voter ID and changes to postal voting - also designed to suppress democracy

Not proceeding with Leveson 2 will do nothing to fix our broken media and the press barons that control the agenda

But nonetheless it's the whole of the last paragraph that looks dangerously like a recipe for fascism to me.

Bear in mind that if your argument against my thoughts is based on interpretation then that tells its own story. Can you trust Boris Johnson to interpret things the way you think?

[Curtains]

29 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

I suspect you'll say "what's wrong with that?" - but I think it's worrying to see them say they will update parliamentary boundaries and keep FPTP. This is basic gerrymandering designed to change boundaries in the favour of the incumbent party - and should always be treated with suspicion (yes even if Labour were suggesting it)

Mandatory Voter ID and changes to postal voting - also designed to suppress democracy

Not proceeding with Leveson 2 will do nothing to fix our broken media and the press barons that control the agenda

But nonetheless it's the whole of the last paragraph that looks dangerously like a recipe for fascism to me.

Bear in mind that if your argument against my thoughts is based on interpretation then that tells its own story. Can you trust Boris Johnson to interpret things the way you think?

Oh same old same old. 
 

Thought it was Labour that wanted to get rid of the monarchy and House of Lords. 
 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1185615/royal-news-queen-elizabeth-ii-abolish-monarchy-jeremy-corbyn-labour-meghan-markle-spt

[Angry Ram]

18 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

I suspect you'll say "what's wrong with that?" - but I think it's worrying to see them say they will update parliamentary boundaries and keep FPTP. This is basic gerrymandering designed to change boundaries in the favour of the incumbent party - and should always be treated with suspicion (yes even if Labour were suggesting it) Did Labour not do that before? Not something I would be in agreement with but boundaries have been changed before.

Mandatory Voter ID and changes to postal voting - also designed to suppress democracy - WHY does that suppress democracy?

Not proceeding with Leveson 2 will do nothing to fix our broken media and the press barons that control the agenda

But nonetheless it's the whole of the last paragraph that looks dangerously like a recipe for fascism to me. Really.. Come on. 

Bear in mind that if your argument against my thoughts is based on interpretation then that tells its own story. Can you trust Boris Johnson to interpret things the way you think? It's not just Boris though is it, it's the whole Conservative Party and how they feel. There are mechanisms in place to remove him (assuming he is this facist as you believe). There are many, many members of the party that stop this direction if indeed anyone did get out of line. Much the same as the Labour Party I would suspect? Fail safe is that you get to a point in 5 years where the population get an opportunity to vote that government out. Or are you basing your interpretation on a premise that we won't have general elections any more after this Tory Government?

Comments above in bold.

[GboroRam]

6 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

It's not just Boris though is it, it's the whole Conservative Party and how they feel. There are mechanisms in place to remove him (assuming he is this facist as you believe). There are many, many members of the party that stop this direction if indeed anyone did get out of line. Much the same as the Labour Party I would suspect? Fail safe is that you get to a point in 5 years where the population get an opportunity to vote that government out. Or are you basing your interpretation on a premise that we won't have general elections any more after this Tory Government?

Pretty much all the Tory MPs are put in position due to their ability to toe the party line and not rock the boat (nice mixed metaphor there). I strongly suspect, should Boris get a majority, it'll be the Boris and Dominic show. Don't expect the Conservative Party to have much sway.

[maxjam]

48 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

I suspect you'll say "what's wrong with that?" - but I think it's worrying to see them say they will update parliamentary boundaries and keep FPTP. This is basic gerrymandering designed to change boundaries in the favour of the incumbent party - and should always be treated with suspicion (yes even if Labour were suggesting it)

Mandatory Voter ID and changes to postal voting - also designed to suppress democracy

Not proceeding with Leveson 2 will do nothing to fix our broken media and the press barons that control the agenda

But nonetheless it's the whole of the last paragraph that looks dangerously like a recipe for fascism to me.

Bear in mind that if your argument against my thoughts is based on interpretation then that tells its own story. Can you trust Boris Johnson to interpret things the way you think?

As @Angry Ram says above - how does Voter ID/Postal votes bit suppress democracy?  And you'll have to explain your reasoning behind the last paragraph being a recipe for fascism. 

Re. Leveson 2 and broken media if I ever got into power (scary thought I know) I'd regulate the media, they have had free rein for to long and have proven not to be trusted. 

I would insist that all outlets declare who they were aligned with, provide full links and evidence for articles, clearly separate between news and opinion and print full page apologies/retractions not hide them in a sentence on page 17. 

Social media would also be regulated in a similar fashion with free speech restored with laws of the land used to determine hate speech - failure to do so would result in them being deemed a publisher rather than a neutral platform and therefore subject to the same restrictions as other media outlets. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

4 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Social media would also be regulated in a similar fashion with free speech restored with laws of the land used to determine hate speech - failure to do so would result in them being deemed a publisher rather than a neutral platform and therefore subject to the same restrictions as other media outlets. 

Social media sites are deemed publishers once they're notified of any defamation and given reasonable time to remove the post. I'm not sure if that currently applies to hate speech.

[Angry Ram]

25 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Pretty much all the Tory MPs are put in position due to their ability to toe the party line and not rock the boat (nice mixed metaphor there). I strongly suspect, should Boris get a majority, it'll be the Boris and Dominic show. Don't expect the Conservative Party to have much sway.

Really, have we not seen the exact opposite throughout the Brexit debate with Tories voting against their party? 

[Bound 2 tease]

11 hours ago, Half Fan Half Biscuit said:

Here's the calculation in detail

HIs / her company makes £25,555 out of which director takes fees of £8,632. Leaves £16,923 subject to corporation tax. 2% increase on Corporation Tax means company pays £3,554 at 21% - that's £338 more than today.

After paying the Corporation Tax director now has £13,368 to take as dividends so total personal income is £22.000 (£8,632 + £13,368).

Take off personal allowance of £12,500 leaves £9,500 taxable on which he / she pays £12.5% extra - that's £1,187 more.

So total extra tax is £338 + £1,187 = £1,526 = £127 a month more.

Now maybe Labour think it's right they pay more, but don't say it's only those with incomes over £80,000 that are going to pay more when that is patently untrue.

I do hope you're not actually an accountant , and this isn't a real life example.

 

 A company, with profit of 25k subject to corporation tax....I don't think so

 

If the taxable revenue is 25k, what is the turnover ?

 

 

 

 

[Bound 2 tease]

20 hours ago, maxjam said:

Yup, see my previous reply.

I can see that you didn't.

 

Besides , the outrage isn't at the (boy on hospital floor )photograph....we're all aware of the underfunding in the NHS and the inevitability of this situation arising sooner or later.

The outrage is at the way Boris handled the situation, he looked the other way and went to automaton mode . He had no answers, didn't even acknowledge the situation, he just recited Cumbuckets  mantas , "get brexit done," unleash britain's potential".

Are we really that crap, that we need a bumbling buffoon to lead the way......

[Wolfie]

 

44 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Pretty much all the Tory MPs are put in position due to their ability to toe the party line and not rock the boat (nice mixed metaphor there). I strongly suspect, should Boris get a majority, it'll be the Boris and Dominic show. Don't expect the Conservative Party to have much sway.

Whereas you have the Momentum bully boys intimidating and trying to de-select moderate Labour candidates.

Not sure there's a moral high ground to take on that one.

[Stive Pesley]

34 minutes ago, maxjam said:

As @Angry Ram says above - how does Voter ID/Postal votes bit suppress democracy?  And you'll have to explain your reasoning behind the last paragraph being a recipe for fascism. 

Re. Leveson 2 and broken media if I ever got into power (scary thought I know) I'd regulate the media, they have had free rein for to long and have proven not to be trusted. 

I would insist that all outlets declare who they were aligned with, provide full links and evidence for articles, clearly separate between news and opinion and print full page apologies/retractions not hide them in a sentence on page 17. 

Social media would also be regulated in a similar fashion with free speech restored with laws of the land used to determine hate speech - failure to do so would result in them being deemed a publisher rather than a neutral platform and therefore subject to the same restrictions as other media outlets. 

I'd largely agree with your last few points on Leveson/press/social media. It's currently a mess and it's subverting democracy and accountability in all sorts of pernicious ways. No easy task, but crucial for the future

As for the VoterId/Postal vote changes - put simply, anything that makes it harder to vote is suppressing democracy. We already have fairly poor turnouts and a disenfranchised electorate. We should be looking to engage people more, not put more barriers in the way

The recipe for facsism bit is subjective I know, but it just smacks of a minority government trying to ensure that once it gets a majority it never lets it go. Again - we should be making sure the checks and balances are there to ensure things don't get totalitarian. I think we are justified in being wary of a Prime Minister (who is essentially a known liar) pledging to dismantle the consitution without any concrete details of what he plans to replace it with

[maxjam]

7 minutes ago, Bound 2 tease said:

I can see that you didn't.

 

Besides , the outrage isn't at the (boy on hospital floor )photograph....we're all aware of the underfunding in the NHS and the inevitability of this situation arising sooner or later.

The outrage is at the way Boris handled the situation, he looked the other way and went to automaton mode . He had no answers, didn't even acknowledge the situation, he just recited Cumbuckets  mantas , "get brexit done," unleash britain's potential".

Are we really that crap, that we need a bumbling buffoon to lead the way......

Go on then you'll have to explain it to me in more detail. 

I thought I said that successive governments have under-funded the NHS.  I haven't given the Tories a free pass but I'm also not naive enough to think that the previous Labour government didn't do exactly the same thing or that the sad situation hasn't been exploited for political gain. 

[Bound 2 tease]

51 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Pretty much all the Tory MPs are put in position due to their ability to toe the party line and not rock the boat (nice mixed metaphor there). I strongly suspect, should Boris get a majority, it'll be the Boris and Dominic show. Don't expect the Conservative Party to have much sway.

I don't think it'll the BJ show, but I do think they'll all do as they're told and be rewarded handsomely for doing F.A.

What IS the point of voting for a political party, if all of they're MP's, all think exactly the same ?

Why not have a benevolent dictator ?

They know what's best for us... 

That's not exactly how democracy is supposed to work, it's not supposed to be bought and paid for, but it has. 

 

For the labour haters....conflict and dissent is good for democracy, party unity is not. 

[1of4]

Yah lets not  regulate all media of all forms. Oh wait thats fine until it goes against something you believe in. Then yes lets put in regulations. Who's going to decide when these regulations need to be implemented? You, me? Of cause not it'll be the government of the day. State censorship.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

Yet another strange Bamford in politics.

[ossieram]

So we're 538 pages in and the election is tomorrow! Who has had their mind changed and will vote for another party based on the discussion on here?