maxjam Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Bit late now! We'll have the actual result in a day and a bit. Yeah I guess. What about a how did you vote poll instead! (I'm joking) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, Andicis said: No, it makes it harder to commit electoral fraud. How can that possibly be a bad thing? How many adults don't have any form of ID? It shouldn't really stop anyone who wants to vote. Agree - helps prevent corruption. I'd also argue that voter apathy is a different question, in fact I did... @SchtivePesley I also wrote a reply to your post addressing several points but the forum ate when I posted it. Busy now, footie later, election tomorrow... If I remember after that lot I'll reply again otherwise sorry for ignoring it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 20 minutes ago, ramesses said: Health tourism accounts for about 0.3% of health spending so I think it's safe for you to continue blaming the government... https://fullfact.org/health/health-tourism-whats-cost/ Have you read the article? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 hour ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: Yet another strange Bamford in politics. To be fair, he’s only being polite by looking at the person talking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtoileSportiveDeDerby Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 hour ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: Whilst you always have to be aware of edited and isolated clips, this video is extremely compelling: I am surprised he does, he's got Dom Perigon on tap, millesime of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: To be fair, he’s only being polite by looking at the person talking Please tell me you're joking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: Please tell me you're joking! The bloke might be socially awkward. What is it you think he’s doing when looking at her. Mentally undressing her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 Just now, i-Ram said: The bloke might be socially awkward. What is it you think he’s doing when looking at her. Mentally undressing her? I'm not suggesting anything like that. Just pointing out yet another politician who can't seem to act like a normal person. And that's ignoring all the crap he spouts in interviews and on social media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: I'm not suggesting anything like that. Just pointing out yet another politician who can't seem to act like a normal person. And that's ignoring all the crap he spouts in interviews and on social media. I accept fully that he can spout huge amounts of crap, but I am very uncomfortable labelling anyone not ‘normal’ just because of looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 minute ago, i-Ram said: I accept fully that he can spout huge amounts of crap, but I am very uncomfortable labelling anyone not ‘normal’ just because of looks. It definitely wasn't because of his looks. It was because of how closely he stood to the woman, to the point that she felt the need to step away, and how he stared at her so intently for no apparent reason. The latter can be put down to being camera shy, but the former is just outright strange. Anyway, it's a tiny issue that's far less relevant than the fact that he spouts crap. I just saw it and thought it would be of interest to this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 10 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: I'm not suggesting anything like that. Just pointing out yet another politician who can't seem to act like a normal person. And that's ignoring all the crap he spouts in interviews and on social media. Do you think its normal the previous actions of the current opposition leader taking to bed an open racist and terrorist sympathiser? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramesses Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 37 minutes ago, maxjam said: Those figures are over 5 years old and they only account for “deliberate health tourism” and visitors “taking advantage” of the system. How many immigrants have settled in the UK since 2012/13? A popular phrase is its equivalent to a city the size of Newcastle every year - how many new hospitals, doctors surgeries, etc does that require? Not to mention all of the other necessary infrastructure. Of course I focused on health tourism given I was replying to a post about health tourism. If you can find more up to date facts on the topic of health tourism then feel free to post up a link. I didn’t mention immigration but that seems to be your main focus - so here’s a copy of a post I wrote earlier about immigration and funding pressures on the NHS (from p.428 if you want to check back)… As far I can see, the link you posted leads to a fact checker that does a decent job of debunking the headline figure. It does seem to get raised on here quite often that NHS funding problems are mainly due to immigration or that increasing NHS costs are mainly due to immigration so I did a quick internet search to look for any evidence based research by reputable organisations. I found that over the past few years there’s been a Kings Fund report, a Nuffield trust report, and a more wide ranging University College London/Lancet commission review and report. All I’ve read so far indicates that the impact of immigration on the NHS is small compared to other factors such as rising costs/wages, non-immigrants getting older, new technology/expanded treatments. The UCL/Lancet commission report states that the rhetoric on this topic is political and not evidence based. These reports acknowledge gaps in the data base, the need for more research, and they obviously can’t answer every question about the future – but the evidence here seems to point to immigration not being a major factor when it comes to NHS funding. So, that’s what came up. I didn’t set out to deliberately select these particular reports or deliberately exclude other reports that might have come to different conclusions. Given the reputation of the organisations involved I’m sure that if the data had showed otherwise they’d have reported it. I’ve added some links below. The first two are links to a couple of news articles that have summarised this material (which I found useful). Also I’ve added links to the specific reports/organisations so people can follow up if wanted. If I’ve missed any evidence based research by reputable organisations on this topic then maybe someone could post up a link. https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/high-immigration-nhs-crisis https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-immigration-health-issues-birth-waiting-times-infection-children-pregnant-unhealthy-a8669441.html https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/verdict/what-do-we-know-about-impact-immigration-nhs https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/the-facts-eu-immigration-and-pressure-on-the-nhs#are-eu-immigrants-driving-current-pressure-on-the-nhs https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140-6736(18)32114-7.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bound 2 tease Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 hour ago, maxjam said: Right, thats what I thought you said. I said that the NHS is underfunded and you're not denying that. Not sure what we're arguing about tbh. I simply made the point that successive governments have under-funded the NHS. But yeah I do think that Labour cutting in excess of 25000 beds during 2005-2010 and selling off parts of the NHS is more relevant than anything that happened in the 1940s. Ok , So you're happy to use historical data in an attempt to justify the indefensible, and then argue the toss for the sake of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, Paul71 said: Do you think its normal the previous actions of the current opposition leader taking to bed an open racist and terrorist sympathiser? That's a political issue. One that I don't agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 25 minutes ago, maxjam said: equivalent to a city the size of Newcastle every year Reciprocal apologies for not responding to your answer yesterday about whether you'd expect net migration would go down under an Australian points-type system As I think you noted - we already have a points-based system for non-EU migration, and in 2018 our net migration figure was about 250k Australia's net migration figure for 2018 was about 240k, but as a proportion of the existing population, in relative terms it's almost double the rate of net migration to the UK Not saying that this proves anything other than the fact that points-based systems don't automatically equate to a lower net migration rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 26 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: Please tell me you're joking! I didn't pay much attention to the clip, but it just seemed like he didn't know how to behave in front of a camera 8 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: It definitely wasn't because of his looks. It was because of how closely he stood to the woman, to the point that she felt the need to step away, and how he stared at her so intently for no apparent reason. The latter can be put down to being camera shy, but the former is just outright strange. Anyway, it's a tiny issue that's far less relevant than the fact that he spouts crap. I just saw it and thought it would be of interest to this thread. Is it not possible he was told where to stand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: It definitely wasn't because of his looks. It was because of how closely he stood to the woman, to the point that she felt the need to step away, and how he stared at her so intently for no apparent reason. The latter can be put down to being camera shy, but the former is just outright strange. Anyway, it's a tiny issue that's far less relevant than the fact that he spouts crap. I just saw it and thought it would be of interest to this thread. Surprising that you actually had to point that out. She she was clearly uncomfortable with his proximity. But who knows maybe he just lacks the social skills that would automatically tell someone to step back and give some a little space in that situation, which would make it an innocent error rather than something creepy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, ramesses said: tes that the impact of immigration on the NHS is small compared to other factors such as rising costs/wages, non-immigrants getting older, new technology/expanded treatments. The UCL/Lancet commission report states that the rhetoric on this topic is political and not evidence based. Maybe the immigrants should share their secret on how to not age! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Bound 2 tease said: Ok , So you're happy to use historical data in an attempt to justify the indefensible, and then argue the toss for the sake of it. Many of the politicians that were are around in 2010 are still around today. How many are still serving MPs from the 1940s? And I wasn't using historical data to justify what the current government has done, I just drew the comparasion that successive governments have done the same thing. Two different points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Reciprocal apologies for not responding to your answer yesterday about whether you'd expect net migration would go down under an Australian points-type system As I think you noted - we already have a points-based system for non-EU migration, and in 2018 our net migration figure was about 250k Australia's net migration figure for 2018 was about 240k, but as a proportion of the existing population, in relative terms it's almost double the rate of net migration to the UK Not saying that this proves anything other than the fact that points-based systems don't automatically equate to a lower net migration rate. I guess its depends on the government in power and need for a migrant workforce. IMO it would be nice to have a system in place and the will to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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