The Politics Thread 2019

[1of4]

So Trump as said that he and Johnson are already discussing a great trade deal. A deal according to Trump that will be worth much more than any previous deal. I wonder who will get the better half of the deal, us or the USA? Also curious as to what previous deal is talking about, as the UK wouldn't have had any direct trade deal with the US in decades.

Johnson as stated that the NHS would not be included in any trade deal with the USA.  What Johnson says and what he does are not always the same thing. So I await to see with trepidation the fate of our health service.

[Norman]

2 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

So Trump as said that he and Johnson are already discussing a great trade deal. A deal according to Trump that will be worth much more than any previous deal. I wonder who will get the better half of the deal, us or the USA? Also curious as to what previous deal is talking about, as the UK wouldn't have had any direct trade deal with the US in decades.

Johnson as stated that the NHS would not be included in any trade deal with the USA.  What Johnson says and what he does are not always the same thing. So I await to see with trepidation the fate of our health service.

The NHS is protected in FTAs. By law.

But let's all focus on the negatives.

We all want this country to fail miserably, don't we?

[cstand]

On 26/07/2019 at 08:15, McRamFan said:

Thatcher and Trump put the country before politics.

Not biting, that is pathetic wumming.

Thatcher defeated the strike mad unions to make this country better.  Donald Trump has repeatedly stated let's make USA great again against a vile hate campaign by the opposition, but don't let the truth get in the way of your brand of politics.

[cstand]

1 minute ago, cstand said:

Thatcher defeated the strike mad unions to make this country better. Donald Trump has repeatedly stated let's make USA great again against a vile hate campaign by the opposition, but don't let the truth get in the way of your brand of politics.  

 

[cstand]

2 minutes ago, cstand said:

Great to see Priti Patel appointment by Boris she was my first choice as leader of the Tories. ................... But hang on a minute some people on this forum accuse Boris of being racist if he was he would not have appointed her surely????

 

[cstand]

19 hours ago, jono said:

You’re right Steve he isn’t a details man, there is a lot of bluster, populism and big sky ideas along with a considerable lack of substance and arithmetic.

Bit like Corbyn, Macdonald and the SWP alliance (as labour should be called ) 

i dispair at the ugly polarisation of our politics today. It is dominated by small minded whining self righteous jealousy on the left and by loud mouthed self serving egotists on the right. ... why is it that the 15% of folks on either wing of our politics are driving the agenda while the rest of us 70% who deep down don’t like any of them have to put up with what they decree or want to decree  is the right way. 

I agree with you most normal everyday people are fed up with the petty minded politics of today if you have different point of view it's..........needless,  pointless, wum accusations, pathetic so unfortunately it is not going to change soon. 

 

[1of4]

2 hours ago, Norman said:

The NHS is protected in FTAs. By law.

But let's all focus on the negatives.

We all want this country to fail miserably, don't we?

What are the laws that protect the NHS? Our government can include it in any trade agreement if it so wishes.

Also there is nothing to stop our government from allowing more individual hospitals to be run by private health companies leading to the eventual full privatisation of the NHS and the introduction of an American health care system.  You can argue that the British public wouldn't stand for it But with the correct media propaganda behind it, are you sure that a tory government and heavens forbid a brexit party one wouldn't be able to justify doing it.

On top of that the USA will want to include pharmaceuticals and medicines in any deal and this will have implications for the cost of running the NHS.

As for want the country to fail. I've never met anyone, from any political persuasion, that wants our country to fail. Just because someone as doubts about the government of the day and it's policies, don't mean it wants the country to fail. I hope and pray that I'm wrong about Johnson and that as promised he can make the UK the greatest country in the world by 2050. I'll probably be dead by then and would have liked it be sooner, but hay ho thats life. As long as that greatness is of benefit to all and not the privileged few then fine.  Do I expect Johnson's government to succeed? No. Does that mean I and others like me, hate our country? NEVER.

[Van der MoodHoover]

4 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

What are the laws that protect the NHS? Our government can include it in any trade agreement if it so wishes.

Also there is nothing to stop our government from allowing more individual hospitals to be run by private health companies leading to the eventual full privatisation of the NHS and the introduction of an American health care system.  You can argue that the British public wouldn't stand for it But with the correct media propaganda behind it, are you sure that a tory government and heavens forbid a brexit party one wouldn't be able to justify doing it.

On top of that the USA will want to include pharmaceuticals and medicines in any deal and this will have implications for the cost of running the NHS.

As for want the country to fail. I've never met anyone, from any political persuasion, that wants our country to fail. Just because someone as doubts about the government of the day and it's policies, don't mean it wants the country to fail. I hope and pray that I'm wrong about Johnson and that as promised he can make the UK the greatest country in the world by 2050. I'll probably be dead by then and would have liked it be sooner, but hay ho thats life. As long as that greatness is of benefit to all and not the privileged few then fine.  Do I expect Johnson's government to succeed? No. Does that mean I and others like me, hate our country? NEVER.

Well said. An earlier poster - cstand? - deplored the polarisation of our main political parties into hard left and right.

Why is it though, that any criticism of either wing is seen by many as justification for labelling you as belonging to the other?

I dislike Johnson as a blow hard, mendacious, amoral charlatan. That does not mean that I celebrate Corbyn and all he stands for.

[1of4]

If questioning the policies and decisions of our government, makes you a hater of the country. Does that make most of the posters on the Derby County forum, Rams haters rather than Rams fans?

[McRamFan]

[jono]

18 hours ago, ramit said:In today's most hilarious news

British communications watchdog Ofcom has fined RT 200.000 Pounds for failing to preserve due impartiality in their news and current affairs programs. 

No large news network preserves due impartiality, it's just a matter of which propaganda one chooses to get spoon-fed, but no, now the wrong propaganda must be condemned and fined and outlawed and blabla.  Shameless psychotic shenanigans, but i suppose few will even raise an eyebrow over it.  Crazy western world which gets nuttier by the day

 

All newspapers have editorial leanings and preferences. The likes of Islam TV, Russia Today are however genuine propaganda constructs that go way beyond that. If you listen to them they are laughable. The west, crazy though it is, is at least accountable to irony humour and counter argument. You can have a daily mail outraged ranger or a guardian lovie but anyone with a modicum of intelligence knows how to filter or laugh. There is a difference - the sort of poo they broadcast with all seriousness is toxic to anyone with a sense of balance 

[ramit]

18 minutes ago, jono said:

All newspapers have editorial leanings and preferences. The likes of Islam TV, Russia Today are however genuine propaganda constructs that go way beyond that. If you listen to them they are laughable. The west, crazy though it is, is at least accountable to irony humour and counter argument. You can have a daily mail outraged ranger or a guardian lovie but anyone with a modicum of intelligence knows how to filter or laugh. There is a difference - the sort of poo they broadcast with all seriousness is toxic to anyone with a sense of balance 

How is RT not accountable to irony, humor and counter arguments?  Stalin is long dead you know.  i would suggest RT is more accountable than say the BBC, for unlike them, they have a comment section under all news items.

You find them toxic because they present counter viewpoints and arguments to the prevailing stances of western media outlets and their governments?

The main reason for the 200.000 Pound fine was RT's coverage of the Skripal case, a western fake news item so laughable that novichok has become widely synonymous with bull to anyone with a modicum of intelligence and sense of balance.  The propaganda blew up in the face of the British government and instead of having the decency and good sense to back down and keep quiet about it so discussion may eventually wither away, they choose vindictively to childishly continue to beat a dead horse, making themselves even more laughable in the process, while digging themselves a deeper hole.  Hey, i don't mind, as i wrote i find the whole thing hilarious and look forward to further ridiculous developments on the issue.

[jono]

30 minutes ago, ramit said:

How is RT not accountable to irony, humor and counter arguments?  Stalin is long dead you know.  i would suggest RT is more accountable than say the BBC, for unlike them, they have a comment section under all news items.

You find them toxic because they present counter viewpoints and arguments to the prevailing stances of western media outlets and their governments?

The main reason for the 200.000 Pound fine was RT's coverage of the Skripal case, a western fake news item so laughable that novichok has become widely synonymous with bull to anyone with a modicum of intelligence and sense of balance.  The propaganda blew up in the face of the British government and instead of having the decency and good sense to back down and keep quiet about it so discussion may eventually wither away, they choose vindictively to childishly continue to beat a dead horse, making themselves even more laughable in the process, while digging themselves a deeper hole.  Hey, i don't mind, as i wrote i find the whole thing hilarious and look forward to further ridiculous developments on the issue.

Ha ha .. a fake news item ? ??????

In your world you can probably pop down to your supermarket and buy some green cheese from the moon and decide a Zionist conspiracy was responsible for the twin towers. 

[ramit]

7 minutes ago, jono said:

Ha ha .. a fake news item ? ??????

In your world you can probably pop down to your supermarket and buy some green cheese from the moon and decide a Zionist conspiracy was responsible for the twin towers. 

 

 

Wait, you actually believe the official Skripal story?

 

Yeah, i can decide anything my little heart desires, that's the beauty of free thinking and coming to my own conclusions as opposed to being a good brainwashed propaganda slave, eager to lap up the latest official lie, thinking they're a good patriotic citizen for being played for a fool by not examining news from every available angle while deriding and laughing at those who dare to do so.

[jono]

@ramit

[jono]

1 hour ago, ramit said:

 

 

Wait, you actually believe the official Skripal story?

 

Yeah, i can decide anything my little heart desires, that's the beauty of free thinking and coming to my own conclusions as opposed to being a good brainwashed propaganda slave, eager to lap up the latest official lie, thinking they're a good patriotic citizen for being played for a fool by not examining news from every available angle while deriding and laughing at those who dare to do so.

And exactly what you’re doing, which is rather sweet irony don’t you think 

[ariotofmyown]

Can anyone remember who said leaving the EU without a deal was a million to one chance?

[AndyinLiverpool]

11 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Can anyone remember who said leaving the EU without a deal was a million to one chance?

I certainly do. But then I suspect that the only people who believed him were some of the ones who didn't believe we'd be leaving on October 31 'come what may' a couple of days previously.

[jono]

9 hours ago, ramit said:

i replied to you in kind and perhaps then some, but you really were begging for it and i was in the mood to accept the challenge to an insult joust.   You failed to answer the questions i put to you, reverted instead to derision and insults, which implies that you are unable or at the least unwilling to argue your point of view.

If it helps, then i can unreservedly state that i respect your football views and status as a fellow Ram.?

I love a joust.

i also enjoy cross questioning our rather childish polarised media which tends to place editorial above actual news.

i also like to at least explore other angles and view points but as far as Skripal, Russia and Novicek, I believe the local explanation of events. Particularly as Putin is a past master at distraction, misinformation and laughable propaganda. The president who saves a camera crew from tigers, “finds” ancient treasures in his scuba gear and regularly swims with sharks. 

 

[RamNut]

14 hours ago, ramit said:

the Skripal case, a western fake news item so laughable that novichok has become widely synonymous with bull to anyone with a modicum of intelligence and sense of balance.  The propaganda blew up in the face of the British government and instead of having the decency and good sense to back down and keep quiet about it so discussion may eventually wither away, they choose vindictively to childishly continue to beat a dead horse, making themselves even more laughable in the process, while digging themselves a deeper hole.  Hey, i don't mind, as i wrote i find the whole thing hilarious and look forward to further ridiculous developments on the issue.

The wierdest thing i've read in a long time.