Highgate Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, FindernRam said: Well Eire can always revert to its original referendum result and leave with us. Simples You might have explain that one to me. What referendum are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 1 hour ago, TuffLuff said: I agree but it only could have happened 3 years ago. Unfortunately May and the conservatives put party politics above the country. It wouldn’t work now, I mean would you trust Johnson in an alliance? Not just May, they've all ballsed this up in their own way. It's been a shambles. Trust Johnson? Short term, get it over the line, I think he would have no choice and you'll guarantee yourself an election on the other end by being able to be the better man (though this point falls down as Corbyn is unelectable now, after his behaviour in the last threw years. And what's that saying about keeping your friends close but your enemies closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 15 minutes ago, sage said: How much infighting did Benn cause? Quite a bit, until the costume maker suddenly appeared and told him it was time for tea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R@M Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 16 hours ago, SchtivePesley said: Until it's Corbyn and then it's unforgiveable right? Or didn't happen at all and it is all propaganda! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 38 minutes ago, BaaLocks said: Not just May, they've all ballsed this up in their own way. It's been a shambles. Trust Johnson? Short term, get it over the line, I think he would have no choice and you'll guarantee yourself an election on the other end by being able to be the better man (though this point falls down as Corbyn is unelectable now, after his behaviour in the last threw years. And what's that saying about keeping your friends close but your enemies closer. May chose the negotiating team though and decided not to use the expertise available to her in other parties. I heard McDonnell say on more than one occasion that bringing Labour to the negotiating table would help because they had key negotiators in their ranks and links to other leading parties around Europe. In fairness, one of Corbyns main points was that she should have invited them to the negotiating table with them. Again May wanted this to be a conservative victory, that they were the ones who delivered it and by doing so it probably caused her biggest problem. It entirely depends what you want to get over the line. No deal? I think that would cause a lot of tension in the country. A negotiated deal? How much time do we have to do that? Remain? Again would have to negotiated extremely well not to cause tensions. Out of interest what has Corbyn done to be so unelectable? I’m not his biggest fan and there’s a lot of stuff he needs to sort it within his own camp (although I think some MPs also need to give their head a wobble too and stop trying to drag down the leadership from within) but given the options I’m not sure I’d want to vote for anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindernRam Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 56 minutes ago, Highgate said: You might have explain that one to me. What referendum are you talking about? 2001 the Irish rejected the treaty of Nice but were forced to revote following some bribery, sorry persuasion. 2008 rejected the Lisbon treaty again forced to revote In 2005 withdrew plans for vote on the EU Constitution following REJECTION by the French and the Dutch. Funny how the EU never accepts the will of the people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, FindernRam said: 2001 the Irish rejected the treaty of Nice but were forced to revote following some bribery, sorry persuasion. 2008 rejected the Lisbon treaty again forced to revote In 2005 withdrew plans for vote on the EU Constitution following REJECTION by the French and the Dutch. Funny how the EU never accepts the will of the people. but the 'people' voted to stay in EU in the 2 votes you mention. I know of no Eirexit pressure from the populace and I imagine that they better off with EU than UK but I have no proof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 2 hours ago, BaaLocks said: Labour are a disgrace. I was in Chesterfield last week (believe it or not, on holiday) and I couldn't help thinking that Tony Benn would hang his head in shame at the insipid mess of infighting and obfuscation that his party has become. The irony being that Jeremy Corbyn was one of Tony Benns disciples in the early 80s, when he was trying to become leader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 52 minutes ago, TuffLuff said: May chose the negotiating team though and decided not to use the expertise available to her in other parties. I heard McDonnell say on more than one occasion that bringing Labour to the negotiating table would help because they had key negotiators in their ranks and links to other leading parties around Europe. In fairness, one of Corbyns main points was that she should have invited them to the negotiating table with them. Again May wanted this to be a conservative victory, that they were the ones who delivered it and by doing so it probably caused her biggest problem. It entirely depends what you want to get over the line. No deal? I think that would cause a lot of tension in the country. A negotiated deal? How much time do we have to do that? Remain? Again would have to negotiated extremely well not to cause tensions. Out of interest what has Corbyn done to be so unelectable? I’m not his biggest fan and there’s a lot of stuff he needs to sort it within his own camp (although I think some MPs also need to give their head a wobble too and stop trying to drag down the leadership from within) but given the options I’m not sure I’d want to vote for anyone else. Two things: his deafening silence on a Brexit policy, his inability to get rid of the anti-semitic claims within and around the Labour Party (I'm not saying it's true, I'm saying he has completely failed to quash it). I've never voted anything other than Labour till last year, now I couldn't see myself voting for them again while he is in power. That said, BoJoke is worse but we need to get past Brexit now, once and for all, as a nation - it is choking our country just having it on the table and the longer it festers the bigger the risk we will get someone who thinks like Farage but actually is able to put his extreme thoughts into practise. We have three options. Go with the deal (we can, we just choose not to), extend eternally till we all forget why we suggested to leave in the first place, or remain. We can get to this decision through political alignment or second referndum - that is simply the mechanic. No deal is simply not an option, anyone who asks for it has no idea the implications of it and the true suffering and disruption it would cause. And using it as a threat is daft - only carry a gun if you intend to use it. As for John McDonnell I sat and listened to him suggesting why we should nationalise outsourced services and - as someone who works in and around this business - it was clear he simply did not have a clue what he was on about. Not a clue. Oh, and I agree on all you say about May btw - but she's not even worth comment now. Just the pride of knowing that I will also play 'Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead' on the day she drops off this mortal coil. "Incompetent, heartless, mean, stubborn and just stupid" would make a pretty fair tombstone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 58 minutes ago, FindernRam said: 2001 the Irish rejected the treaty of Nice but were forced to revote following some bribery, sorry persuasion. 2008 rejected the Lisbon treaty again forced to revote In 2005 withdrew plans for vote on the EU Constitution following REJECTION by the French and the Dutch. Funny how the EU never accepts the will of the people. None of those were referendums on whether or not ROI should leave the EU. When those votes took place, there was absolutely no desire within the country to actually leave the EU. Any such proposal would have lost in a landslide. Even after the unpleasantness between ROI and the ECB a decade ago, and even after the UK voted to leave (both of which should strengthen the desire for people in Ireland to exit the EU), there is currently absolutely no chance Ireland would vote to leave the EU if given the opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967Ram Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 2 hours ago, FindernRam said: Well Eire can always revert to its original referendum result and leave with us. Simples Northern Ireland voted to remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 22 hours ago, David said: Depends on the usage, I think when it comes to politicians just wanting someone normal in Downing Street is acceptable. Definition of normal 3a : of, relating to, or characterized by average intelligence or development IQs within the normal range OK thanks just checking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 6 hours ago, TuffLuff said: I agree but it only could have happened 3 years ago. Unfortunately May and the conservatives put party politics above the country. It wouldn’t work now, I mean would you trust Johnson in an alliance? Name me a leader or party that puts the country before party politics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 11 hours ago, McRamFan said: Having being in the ROI and NI for the last few days, the noise from there is that they see brexit as a massive threat to both countries, DUP support is weakening, and reunification is being publicly talked about... In a nut shell. Not happen. Not unless the roi vote to become part of the uk again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 3 hours ago, HantsRam said: The irony being that Jeremy Corbyn was one of Tony Benns disciples in the early 80s, when he was trying to become leader Stalin was a disciple of Carl Marx. Whilst momentum rule the Labour Party there always will be a shady Corbyn type leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 4 hours ago, FindernRam said: 2001 the Irish rejected the treaty of Nice but were forced to revote following some bribery, sorry persuasion. 2008 rejected the Lisbon treaty again forced to revote In 2005 withdrew plans for vote on the EU Constitution following REJECTION by the French and the Dutch. Funny how the EU never accepts the will of the people. Funny how the EU Politburo give their meps only one candidate to be their leader as well, I wonder if it was a secret ballot like last time. No wonder people voted to leave when they see EU democracy in action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, Paul71 said: Name me a leader or party that puts the country before party politics Donald Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 1 minute ago, cstand said: Donald Trump. Ok you got me there. He does that. America all the way. I was thinking uk politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 8 minutes ago, Paul71 said: Ok you got me there. He does that. America all the way. I was thinking uk politics. Margaret Thatcher and Tony Benn put democracy in this country first before the EU to which I applaud them both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, cstand said: Margaret Thatcher and Tony Benn put democracy in this country first before the EU to which I applaud them both. I was thinking politics today. Sorry ill get me coat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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