The Politics Thread 2019

[tomsdubs]

1 hour ago, GenBr said:

Just because it doesn't fit with your world view does not make it propaganda. Raising taxes is unpopular - deal with it. It doesn't matter who he is raising taxes for it will be unpopular. Perhaps saying majority of voters is a bit of an overstatement, but it won't go down well anywhere in Toryland -  i.e everywhere south of Leicester. I also don't want corporation tax increases or re-nationalisation.

Whilst I am aware that most of the members of this forum are borderline communists who don't believe anyone should be earning more than £50k per year and that all wealth should be confiscated by the government upon death it is not a view I share. 

 

Gold, pure gold.

[Stive Pesley]

2 hours ago, GenBr said:

raising taxes for it will be unpopular.  I also don't want corporation tax increases or re-nationalisation.

I applaud anyone on here who has the courage to state their political convictions and stand by them. I'd much rather debate tangible stuff than listen to people just re-heat lies they've been told by the media, or endless wummery

So out of genuine interest - where do you think additional taxes should gathered from if not individuals or corporations? I assume you still want the NHS, public roads, schools, police, fire brigades, national defence etc ?

 

[TuffLuff]

1 hour ago, Van Wolfie said:

Not in the slightest. It has always been in the interests of the EU to make the process as difficult and scary for us as they could, in order to put off any other country from thinking about doing the same.

A perfectly logical policy as well.

I’d argue a lot of their policy has been to a show a united front and that you are ‘better together’. I think the ‘putting off other countries’ was largely paper talk. If you can negotiate a deal that works for everyone then why not persue it?

It makes little sense for them to try and bite the hand that feeds much like it shouldnt have done for the UK

[Van der MoodHoover]

3 hours ago, GenBr said:

Just because it doesn't fit with your world view does not make it propaganda. Raising taxes is unpopular - deal with it. It doesn't matter who he is raising taxes for it will be unpopular. Perhaps saying majority of voters is a bit of an overstatement, but it won't go down well anywhere in Toryland -  i.e everywhere south of Leicester. I also don't want corporation tax increases or re-nationalisation.

Whilst I am aware that most of the members of this forum are borderline communists who don't believe anyone should be earning more than £50k per year and that all wealth should be confiscated by the government upon death it is not a view I share. 

 

I earn 280k pa currently and I would happily see the top rate of tax rise were it to achieve some genuine societal need. 5% for the NHS, 5% to fund student loans etc

 

To say Tories don't raise income is not true. They do tend to do so by more cunning means such as tapering down the tax free personal allowance rather than raising tax rates per se. But as Osborne was doing all of that, he was also inflicting austerity as "necessary", whereas i see that as ideologically driven and cruel to those it bore down most heavily on.

 

Apologies if that makes me a communist. I prefer the term "social conscience".

[David]

1 minute ago, HantsRam said:

I earn 280k pa currently

[Van der MoodHoover]

2 minutes ago, David said:

How else do you think i can afford all that fast food......?

[GboroRam]

8 minutes ago, HantsRam said:

I earn 280k pa currently 

You still being paid in Lira? 

[uttoxram75]

It’s hard to explain my political belief in a few words but I saw this on twitter earlier and found it sums me up....

 

What is democratic socialism? 

 

It’s a system in which society’s most important resources are owned collectively and run democratically, rather than monopolised by a tiny elite and exploited for profit.

 

[Van der MoodHoover]

48 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

You still being paid in Lira? 

Turkish lira.....?

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

2 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

I applaud anyone on here who has the courage to state their political convictions and stand by them. I'd much rather debate tangible stuff than listen to people just re-heat lies they've been told by the media, or endless wummery

So out of genuine interest - where do you think additional taxes should gathered from if not individuals or corporations? I assume you still want the NHS, public roads, schools, police, fire brigades, national defence etc ? 

 

Are you in the Judeans peoples front or the peoples front of Judea ?

[Sith Happens]

4 hours ago, GenBr said:

Just because it doesn't fit with your world view does not make it propaganda. Raising taxes is unpopular - deal with it. It doesn't matter who he is raising taxes for it will be unpopular. Perhaps saying majority of voters is a bit of an overstatement, but it won't go down well anywhere in Toryland -  i.e everywhere south of Leicester. I also don't want corporation tax increases or re-nationalisation.

Whilst I am aware that most of the members of this forum are borderline communists who don't believe anyone should be earning more than £50k per year and that all wealth should be confiscated by the government upon death it is not a view I share. 

 

I doubt there are many who don't believe anyone should earn more than 50k. If that was what they believed they wouldn't be on a forum for supporters of a football club where players earn more than 50 k a month, they would surely go support someone like Alfreton Town and not follow Derby out of principle.  If that was truly their belief it would be hypocritical to do otherwise.

 

[uttoxram75]

5 hours ago, GenBr said:

Whilst I am aware that most of the members of this forum are borderline communists who don't believe anyone should be earning more than £50k per year and that all wealth should be confiscated by the government upon death it is not a view I share. 

It’s hard to tell sometimes, and I apologise if I’m being a bit thick, but you are joking  aren’t you?

[Stive Pesley]

54 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

I doubt there are many who don't believe anyone should earn more than 50k. If that was what they believed they wouldn't be on a forum for supporters of a football club where players earn more than 50 k a month, they would surely go support someone like Alfreton Town and not follow Derby out of principle.  If that was truly their belief it would be hypocritical to do otherwise.

 

£50k is not a ridiculous amount of money these days. Probably more than I'll ever earn in a year, but not a million miles away from it. I do however think there must be a limit where you reach the point of having more money than you can possibly ever need.  The fundamental problem with the world is that those who reach that limit seem to become consumed by greed and don't stop wanting more and more - at the expense of those who have the very least

 

[Van der MoodHoover]

37 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

£50k is not a ridiculous amount of money these days. Probably more than I'll ever earn in a year, but not a million miles away from it. I do however think there must be a limit where you reach the point of having more money than you can possibly ever need.  The fundamental problem with the world is that those who reach that limit seem to become consumed by greed and don't stop wanting more and more - at the expense of those who have the very least

 

Utility theory...was the whole basis of progressive rates of income tax.

Its largely discredited now as the counter theory was it inhibited wealth creators.  Personally I think there's still a case for them to apply to eg earnings from activities like casino banking or some of the geekier end of financial services where annual salaries can easily be 1m plus.

Or footballers.

The system has become so distorted that earnings is now a very poor proxy for value. 

[cstand]

21 hours ago, David said:

I love that politics has come down to this, who seems normal, that's all we want now, someone normal ?

Are we allowed to say normal people still ?

[David]

7 minutes ago, cstand said:

Are we allowed to say normal people still ?

Depends on the usage, I think when it comes to politicians just wanting someone normal in Downing Street is acceptable. 

Definition of normal

3a : of, relating to, or characterized by average intelligence or development IQs within the normal range

[bcnram]

21 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

It would be a start. Old Etonians are not normal.

Why are they not normal? Are knife wielding scroats with couldn’t careless parents at the local comprehensive normal?

[ariotofmyown]

3 minutes ago, bcnram said:

Why are they not normal? Are knife wielding scroats with couldn’t careless parents at the local comprehensive normal?

No the knife wielding scroats are not normal. But they aren't our new PM. What a weird comparison.

This behaviour is not normal. It's disgusting...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/07/oxford-bullingdon-club-boris-johnson-sexism-violence-bullying-culture

[Norman]

1 hour ago, uttoxram75 said:

It’s hard to tell sometimes, and I apologise if I’m being a bit thick, but you are joking  aren’t you?

It's hyperbole.

[Van der MoodHoover]

16 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

No the knife wielding scroats are not normal. But they aren't our new PM. What a weird comparison.

This behaviour is not normal. It's disgusting...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/07/oxford-bullingdon-club-boris-johnson-sexism-violence-bullying-culture

I had a conversation with Mrs Hants about some people she knows who receive benefits for living and her perception of an "entitlement " culture. 

My point was people like Johnson seem to have an entitlement culture of their own....that they can behave more or less as they want, and expect positions of great power and privilege. 

Such people have zero sense of social duty. Completely amoral. They should have zero value to our nation yet somehow they can be - perversely- revered.

Very strange.