Jump to content

The Politics Thread 2019


David

Recommended Posts

52 minutes ago, jono said:

I love a joust.

i also enjoy cross questioning our rather childish polarised media which tends to place editorial above actual news.

i also like to at least explore other angles and view points but as far as Skripal, Russia and Novicek, I believe the local explanation of events. Particularly as Putin is a past master at distraction, misinformation and laughable propaganda. The president who saves a camera crew from tigers, “finds” ancient treasures in his scuba gear and regularly swims with sharks. 

 

As i stated in my original post, all large media outlets use propaganda.  To be able to sort out the relevant facts from the nonsense requires diligent hard time consuming work and that's why propaganda works so well, people don't have the time, they are kept overworked and inundated with the demands of modern living.  

i could debate the Skripal case with you all day long, but it would be a fruitless exercise for us both i fear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 12.4k
  • Created
  • Last Reply
1 hour ago, ramit said:

As i stated in my original post, all large media outlets use propaganda.  To be able to sort out the relevant facts from the nonsense requires diligent hard time consuming work and that's why propaganda works so well, people don't have the time, they are kept overworked and inundated with the demands of modern living.  

i could debate the Skripal case with you all day long, but it would be a fruitless exercise for us both i fear.

I’d love to hear your arguments. .. no really I would. I’d also like to illustrate my views on it and comment on your perceptions but rather than being a fruitless exercise (it wouldn’t - e press ion of opinion never is ) the issue would be my wife not wanting to become a widow to this forum while I pontificate from on high instead of cleaning the bathroom. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, jono said:

I’d love to hear your arguments. .. no really I would. I’d also like to illustrate my views on it and comment on your perceptions but rather than being a fruitless exercise (it wouldn’t - e press ion of opinion never is ) the issue would be my wife not wanting to become a widow to this forum while I pontificate from on high instead of cleaning the bathroom. 

And i am currently entangled in a fruitless thankless exercise, trying to get our lazy teen son out of his bed.  Am considering the bucket of water approach, it's 11am for goodness sake.

Later then, when we have the time and patience for it Jono?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 26/07/2019 at 23:22, ramit said:

In today's most hilarious news

British communications watchdog Ofcom has fined RT 200.000 Pounds for failing to preserve due impartiality in their news and current affairs programs. 

No large news network preserves due impartiality, it's just a matter of which propaganda one chooses to get spoon-fed, but no, now the wrong propaganda must be condemned and fined and outlawed and blabla.  Shameless psychotic shenanigans, but i suppose few will even raise an eyebrow over it.  Crazy western world which gets nuttier by the day

 

Can't have that pal. RT is Kremlin paid propaganda. Straight up.

The BBC is absolutely as impartial as it's possible to get, to the point of 'balancing' debates where this is no real debate.

We don't realise how lucky we are to have it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, ramit said:

How is RT not accountable to irony, humor and counter arguments?  Stalin is long dead you know.  i would suggest RT is more accountable than say the BBC, for unlike them, they have a comment section under all news items.

You find them toxic because they present counter viewpoints and arguments to the prevailing stances of western media outlets and their governments?

RT is a strange one.  I've watched it on a few occasions and you can get information there that you won't generally get on Western news channels.  In Syria for example it was on RT that you could first hear that many of those fighting Assad were themselves affiliated with terrorists, something I just wasn't hearing on western TV until months later.  That's just one example of how RT's output can be a useful counterpoint.  Of course RT's position was thoroughly behind Assad for obvious reasons. 

It's true that any national broadcaster's news output, even if it manages to be impartial at home, is going show considerable bias towards it's own country in international affairs, to think otherwise would be completely naive.  However RT is something different, it seems to behave as an arm of the Russian state, it's goal is to spread negative stories about the West, while never ever criticizing Russia or Putin.  In fact it always attempts to debunk any news items in the international media that may be critical of Russia

RT doesn't have to make things up, there are plenty of valid and legitimate criticisms of the West that it can and does make.  This is what can actually make it a useful source of information. It also shows plenty of independent documentaries but again they seem to choose only those that are be critical of western governments or western military actions.  But it always focuses on the negative and it seems to want heighten opposition to Western governments and generally sow discord in the US and Europe in the hope that they become weaker....i guess.  I'd imagine, for example, RT are enormously pro Brexit, not because they want Britain to be more independent, but because they think that it will weaken the Europe as a whole. 

Media bias is commonplace in the US too.  Late Night Fox News on the extreme right, MSNBC way to the left.  CNN seemingly waging a pointless and counterproductive vendetta against Trump   Now while I think Trump is the most dangerous man on the planet with the respect to humanity's future prospects (and undoubtedly one of  the most instantly repulsive and ridiculous individuals I've ever seen), it's clear that it's personal for CNN, probably because he referred to them as fake news. 

Have you ever seen Chinese TV attempt to discuss the Chinese government?  It's hilariously (if understandably) deferential coverage to say the least.  Glad that's not the norm in the West.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Highgate said:

RT is a strange one.  I've watched it on a few occasions and you can get information there that you won't generally get on Western news channels.  In Syria for example it was on RT that you could first hear that many of those fighting Assad were themselves affiliated with terrorists, something I just wasn't hearing on western TV until months later.  That's just one example of how RT's output can be a useful counterpoint.  Of course RT's position was thoroughly behind Assad for obvious reasons. 

It's true that any national broadcaster's news output, even if it manages to be impartial at home, is going show considerable bias towards it's own country in international affairs, to think otherwise would be completely naive.  However RT is something different, it seems to behave as an arm of the Russian state, it's goal is to spread negative stories about the West, while never ever criticizing Russia or Putin.  In fact it always attempts to debunk any news items in the international media that may be critical of Russia

RT doesn't have to make things up, there are plenty of valid and legitimate criticisms of the West that it can and does make.  This is what can actually make it a useful source of information. It also shows plenty of independent documentaries but again they seem to choose only those that are be critical of western governments or western military actions.  But it always focuses on the negative and it seems to want heighten opposition to Western governments and generally sow discord in the US and Europe in the hope that they become weaker....i guess.  I'd imagine, for example, RT are enormously pro Brexit, not because they want Britain to be more independent, but because they think that it will weaken the Europe as a whole. 

Media bias is commonplace in the US too.  Late Night Fox News on the extreme right, MSNBC way to the left.  CNN seemingly waging a pointless and counterproductive vendetta against Trump   Now while I think Trump is the most dangerous man on the planet with the respect to humanity's future prospects (and undoubtedly one of  the most instantly repulsive and ridiculous individuals I've ever seen), it's clear that it's personal for CNN, probably because he referred to them as fake news. 

Have you ever seen Chinese TV attempt to discuss the Chinese government?  It's hilariously (if understandably) deferential coverage to say the least.  Glad that's not the norm in the West.

Sure, RT is highly critical of the west and IMO understandably so and when have you read anything but negative coverage of Russia in western media?  They repeatedly speak of Russian aggression and what do they mean by that?  Assisting an ally in Syria desperately trying to defend their lands from hoards of terrorists, armed, trained and assisted by US forces?  Assisting Russian speaking Ukrainians who are defending themselves from Ukrainian Russophobic government aggression, who even banned their language? 

Russia is hemmed in by encroaching NATO forces and react accordingly, strengthening their border regions militarily and of course they try to sow discord in the west in which every way that hurts it.  RT is absolutely a key outlet for such attempts, but can you really blame them?  

RT was not the first to show the direct links between western governments and the terrorists in Syria however.  Certain news forums were on top of the matter long before RT covered it.  That's actually where i find the most information and quickest.

i suspect the domestic strife in USA is purposely manufactured from within mostly, although i cannot fathom the reasoning for it.  The sheer hatred exhibited between Republicans and Democrats is bewildering, for both are right wing parties in agreement on most major foreign policy matters.  The neo liberalism which has overtaken the Democratic party seems manufactured as well with the sole aim of sowing discord and disunity among the American public.  It's almost as if some powerful people have decided that USA has served it's purpose and must be destroyed from within.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

What about imports? Or holidays abroad? What does double nectar points mean for that? 

Are we net exporters or net importers? 

Net importers of goods. So should help then, eh?

It'll also incentivise people to holiday in the UK, further helping the balance of payments. Double nectar points won't make much difference either way. I've still not forgiven them for halving the value a few years back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, ramit said:

Sure, RT is highly critical of the west and IMO understandably so and when have you read anything but negative coverage of Russia in western media?  They repeatedly speak of Russian aggression and what do they mean by that?  Assisting an ally in Syria desperately trying to defend their lands from hoards of terrorists, armed, trained and assisted by US forces?  Assisting Russian speaking Ukrainians who are defending themselves from Ukrainian Russophobic government aggression, who even banned their language? 

Russia is hemmed in by encroaching NATO forces and react accordingly, strengthening their border regions militarily and of course they try to sow discord in the west in which every way that hurts it.  RT is absolutely a key outlet for such attempts, but can you really blame them?  

RT was not the first to show the direct links between western governments and the terrorists in Syria however.  Certain news forums were on top of the matter long before RT covered it.  That's actually where i find the most information and quickest.

i suspect the domestic strife in USA is purposely manufactured from within mostly, although i cannot fathom the reasoning for it.  The sheer hatred exhibited between Republicans and Democrats is bewildering, for both are right wing parties in agreement on most major foreign policy matters.  The neo liberalism which has overtaken the Democratic party seems manufactured as well with the sole aim of sowing discord and disunity among the American public.  It's almost as if some powerful people have decided that USA has served it's purpose and must be destroyed from within.

A good point. I've often been surprised by how politicians in the US or even political commentators or TV hosts speak so openly about Russia being 'the enemy of the US' even before they were aware of Russian interference in elections there.  Also I don't think many in the west are aware of how NATO is viewed in Russia. They see it, understandably, as hostile to Russia and it's continued expansion as a direct threat to their country. 

Having said that, I haven't a single good word to say about Putin.  And I wouldn't like to be his political opponent or a journalist wanting to write something critical of his government.  The Russian state seem to have a much bigger influence on public opinion or public discourse  than is the case in many western countries.  And that's hardly surprising given the laws that have been enacted in Russia in recent years, which clearly and directly curtail media freedom.

Yeah, the political arena in the US is a mess at the moment. The Republicans are like nothing else in the Western World, many of them so out of touch with reality, science and common sense that it would be laughable if they weren't currently so powerful.  The Democrats are splitting it seems, there is their more traditional conservative wing serving the business community as they've always done and there is now the new and more progressive left wing of the party.  The latter is, for me, a cause for hope and is mostly just moderately left wing economically. But to others they are seen as crazed un-American communist foot soldiers.  A difference of a opinion that is symptomatic of the ever increasing polarization of political views I guess.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Boris' cabinet semed to be comprised of misiters even more hpoelessly inadequate for their roles than himself. Priti Patel as Home Secretarty for instance has often seemed hopelessly incapable of taking onboard even the most simple of logical arguments. The video below dealing with capital punishment and burden of proof sums up how hopelessly oberfaced she is and yet we find ourselves in a position where this second-rater has been appointed to Home Secretary. The mind boggles.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Boris' cabinet semed to be comprised of misiters even more hpoelessly inadequate for their roles than himself. Priti Patel as Home Secretarty for instance has often seemed hopelessly incapable of taking onboard even the most simple of logical arguments. The video below dealing with capital punishment and burden of proof sums up how hopelessly oberfaced she is and yet we find ourselves in a position where this second-rater has been appointed to Home Secretary. The mind boggles.

 

Trying to not argue about politics online, but this is something I cannot get my head around and does make me quite angry. Imagine living in a society (and indeed, being part of the party in charge) that has repeatedly cut legal aid to the point where many people cannot access legal services properly and low cost legal clinics are collapsing, and then believing capital punishment can be successfully implemented with the "burden of proof". 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Boris' cabinet semed to be comprised of misiters even more hpoelessly inadequate for their roles than himself. Priti Patel as Home Secretarty for instance has often seemed hopelessly incapable of taking onboard even the most simple of logical arguments. The video below dealing with capital punishment and burden of proof sums up how hopelessly oberfaced she is and yet we find ourselves in a position where this second-rater has been appointed to Home Secretary. The mind boggles.

 

I agree. If you think about it too much though it could really depress you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 23/07/2019 at 21:37, TuffLuff said:

I’m confused, so he said something irresponsible, where journalists were present, that has help put a british citizen into jeopardy...and that’s not his fault?

 

I'm confused. You seem to want him to lie to parliament. And when he doesn't that's a terrible error.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...