Roof over Pride Park

[Sweetness34]

2 hours ago, therealhantsram said:

I could probably have picked better wording. In Minesota, half the stadium roof is traditional construction, half is ETFE - so yes lots of structural steel was needed in that instance, and so it was a bad example.  A better example would have been the Dunedin Stadium in New Zealand.  This is an aluminium frame just sitting on top of the stadium roof.   I was trying (poorly it seems) to point out how lightweight these new types of roofs are and how it would likely be possible to retrofit an aluminium roof of this kind onto PPS with no new structural steel.

But I think you do misunderstand what the Minesota Stadium roof is... it *is* an Air Roof. It's not glass panels. It has panels of polythene-like ETFE "pillows".  Air is blown into the pillows - either warm or cold to help the stadium reach the desired temperature inside.

 

I stand corrected! If we are to get a roof, I really hope it's transparent so we can still see a nice blue sky once in a while!

Btw, that Dunedin Stadium looks awesome. Ironically, I worked at a large steel fabricator just outside of Dunedin once so perhaps they did this one! 

[Boycie]

If the Ricoh, and Ashton Gate can hold large concerts I can’t see why we can’t, I think it’s a great idea and about time we had the capacity to hold large gigs.

 

[alexxxxx]

6 hours ago, ThePrisoner said:

I genuinely (might be wrong) didn’t think safe standing increased capacity as there is still a seat, it’s just locked. 

 

6 hours ago, reveldevil said:

I thought the same, but apparently it's 3 standing to 2 seats.

trouble is you have other things to consider than just how many people you cram in... fire escapes/stairs need to be wide enough and more toilets etc so you might not be limited by space but might be limited by other factors.

[Mucker1884]

5 hours ago, Srg said:

Not quite correct, it boosts capacity, but capacity is reduced for games where the seats need to be used (European games, for example).

Main issue with converting the stadium is the stadium isn't made steep enough, so you'll definitely struggle to see. In the numerous games abroad I've been to and stood, the stands are noticeably steeper.

Surely the steeper stands in Europe are mere coincidence?

By the very nature of the design of PPS (i.e. the rake of the stands), if everyone was the same height and everyone sat down, everyone would be able to see over the heads of those in front of us.

Take the same equation but have everyone standing... at PPS... at the same existing rake of the stands... at the same distance behind the person in front (i.e. the pitch of each seat/standing area)... and the same outcome would apply.  We'd all still be able to see over the heads of those in front of us. 

All angles and ratios would stay the same, standing or sitting.

 

 

 

[Srg]

34 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

Surely the steeper stands in Europe are mere coincidence?

By the very nature of the design of PPS (i.e. the rake of the stands), if everyone was the same height and everyone sat down, everyone would be able to see over the heads of those in front of us.

Take the same equation but have everyone standing... at PPS... at the same existing rake of the stands... at the same distance behind the person in front (i.e. the pitch of each seat/standing area)... and the same outcome would apply.  We'd all still be able to see over the heads of those in front of us. 

All angles and ratios would stay the same, standing or sitting.

 

 

 

Not really, if someone is tall stood in front of someone small, you'd really struggle to see with a less of slope and smaller steps for each row. Whereas if each step is a bigger drop making the stadium steeper, that would be an extremely rare occurrence.

[Ghost of Clough]

1 minute ago, Srg said:

Not really, if someone is tall stood in front of someone small, you'd really struggle to see with a less of slope and smaller steps for each row. Whereas if each step is a bigger drop making the stadium steeper, that would be an extremely rare occurrence.

The shorties will have to take a box with them to stand on

[AutoWindscreens]

46 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

Surely the steeper stands in Europe are mere coincidence?

By the very nature of the design of PPS (i.e. the rake of the stands), if everyone was the same height and everyone sat down, everyone would be able to see over the heads of those in front of us.

Take the same equation but have everyone standing... at PPS... at the same existing rake of the stands... at the same distance behind the person in front (i.e. the pitch of each seat/standing area)... and the same outcome would apply.  We'd all still be able to see over the heads of those in front of us. 

All angles and ratios would stay the same, standing or sitting.

 

 

 

The differences between people's heights when seated are less than the differences when standing. Take the legs out and you take out a large factor of difference.

[therealhantsram]

40 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

Surely the steeper stands in Europe are mere coincidence?

By the very nature of the design of PPS (i.e. the rake of the stands), if everyone was the same height and everyone sat down, everyone would be able to see over the heads of those in front of us.

Take the same equation but have everyone standing... at PPS... at the same existing rake of the stands... at the same distance behind the person in front (i.e. the pitch of each seat/standing area)... and the same outcome would apply.  We'd all still be able to see over the heads of those in front of us. 

All angles and ratios would stay the same, standing or sitting.

 

 

 

Yeah - I'm with you on this one @Mucker1884. Some stands are very steep, but that is more about large capacity ground and making sure no-one is too far from the action - particularly in the upper tiers.

Terraces have always traditionally had a shallower gradient than seats (the opposite of @Srg's suggestion) for safety reasons. But with rail seats you don't need to have the shallow gradient. Steep or shallow doesn't matter.

[Mucker1884]

29 minutes ago, Srg said:

Not really, if someone is tall stood in front of someone small, you'd really struggle to see with a less of slope and smaller steps for each row. Whereas if each step is a bigger drop making the stadium steeper, that would be an extremely rare occurrence.

Totally agree.  The steeper the stand, the more likely it is to see over the person in front, but my point was, if you can see when sitting (which we can already, at PPS), you can see when standing... at the same distance behind the row in front.  The height of everybody's head/eyes is raised of course, but all the angles/pitches/rakes etc remain the same.

Obviously, you could argue that the difference in height of two people standing would be different to those same two people sitting (depending on who is "taller from the waist up", so to speak!) but that would be an endless... and most tedious argument.

Do the guys and gals at the back of the South Stand have less of a view than those of us who remain seated?  Do our standing away fans see less than those seated?  Would you agree that the all-seater PPS is a fair bit steeper than the old Ossie End and Popside?  I recall steps there being no more than a mere 4 inch or so, but I do concede each row was closer together (when they were still terraces) than our rows of seats.

 

 

I must point out, I should have ended each of my sentences in this and my previous post with a question mark.  I'm not "telling you", but I am querying you, as I'm certainly struggling to see your logic that standing areas need to be steeper than seated areas... assuming the pitch between rows remain the same of course (which they would, converting our existing stand(s) to safe standing)... that's incredibly vital to my theory... don't go trying to squeeze in extra rows for the standing areas, as that's cheating!  :-)

 

 

EDIT:  Posted before seeing the last 3 posts

[Uptherams]

1 hour ago, Boycie said:

If the Ricoh, and Ashton Gate can hold large concerts I can’t see why we can’t, I think it’s a great idea and about time we had the capacity to hold large gigs.

 

Also, it might help prevent the council from continually wasting money on venues. 

[Mucker1884]

22 minutes ago, AutoWindscreens said:

The differences between people's heights when seated are less than the differences when standing. Take the legs out and you take out a large factor of difference.

Yeah, in fairness, i have now alluded to that, but the seat pitches in an all-seater stadium must surely cover any pit-falls on that score, when (temporarily) changing from existing seated area to safe-standing stylee "Terraces"?

 

...And it goes without saying, ratio of legs to upper body is gonna differ in each and everyone of us!

I once went out with a bird who's legs went right up to my shoulders! (Although neither of were standing at the time!)  ;-)

[Mucker1884]

How the hell did we get from roof to seats to Safe Standing?

 

#WTF!!!!!

[Millenniumram]

1 minute ago, Mucker1884 said:

How the hell did we get from roof to seats to Safe Standing?

 

#WTF!!!!!

Telling me you’re not gonna stand on the roof? Up there is where most the action happened under Rowett!

[Mucker1884]

5 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Telling me you’re not gonna stand on the roof? Up there is where most the action happened under Rowett!

I was up in the rafters when we got relegated at Norwich back in the day (We'll be back in '81).  Got covered in vandal grease, and my "Up The Rams" Royal Ensign was completely ruined!  Never again!

[Sweetness34]

1 hour ago, Mucker1884 said:

Surely the steeper stands in Europe are mere coincidence?

By the very nature of the design of PPS (i.e. the rake of the stands), if everyone was the same height and everyone sat down, everyone would be able to see over the heads of those in front of us.

Take the same equation but have everyone standing... at PPS... at the same existing rake of the stands... at the same distance behind the person in front (i.e. the pitch of each seat/standing area)... and the same outcome would apply.  We'd all still be able to see over the heads of those in front of us. 

All angles and ratios would stay the same, standing or sitting.

 

 

 

I agree. Also, if I'm recalling correctly, the popside wasn't steep at all. I wasn't even 10 when they put the seats in the popside so I may be remembering it wrong and don't think I've stood on a terrace anywhere else other than one time at Burton which is about 5 rows so will be gladly corrected

[therealhantsram]

3 minutes ago, Sweetness34 said:

I agree. Also, if I'm recalling correctly, the popside wasn't steep at all. I wasn't even 10 when they put the seats in the popside so I may be remembering it wrong and don't think I've stood on a terrace anywhere else other than one time at Burton which is about 5 rows so will be gladly corrected

You're right, it was really shallow gradient. 

[Stive Pesley]

ROOF KLAXON!

[Spanish]

On 03/04/2019 at 16:35, therealhantsram said:

You're right, it was really shallow gradient. 

I guess the steps were not more than 5cm deep?

[Boycie]

1 minute ago, Spanish said:

I guess the steps were not more than 5cm deep?

You used to be lower than the pitch when you were up against the perimeter though didn’t you?

[Spanish]

1 minute ago, Boycie said:

You used to be lower than the pitch when you were up against the perimeter though didn’t you?

trying to remember but definitely lower than the pitch (about 3 ft?)