'suspicious' man outside Derby County's training ground

[rynny]

6 minutes ago, Pub Breath said:

Aye.  One still of a three meter section of the road in summer must surely be a 100% accurate representation of the whole road (and other around it) in the middle of winter.

It's like that down the whole road, would you like me to go video record the whole perimeter for you? 

[Norman]

Just now, rynny said:

It's like that down the whole road, would you like me to go video record the whole perimeter for you? 

You'll get arrested mate.

[Day]

3 minutes ago, Norman said:

You'll get arrested mate.

Not if he takes a change of clothes

[Alph]

6 minutes ago, rynny said:

It's like that down the whole road, would you like me to go video record the whole perimeter for you? 

Dunno about him but I'd like you to do it. 

[Pub Breath]

3 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

Yet again your logic is contradictory though

You admire his "relentless obsessive attention to detail" but then you think he's not "sat around wondering if he might be falling foul of some native moral code" - if he's so obsessed with details and understanding the British game then he must surely have checked if this sort of thing was accepted practice. At least have the decency to admit that he did this knowing full well what a cheating **** it makes him look in the eyes of most British football fans

I think you're trying to unearth contradictions where none exist.

When I talk about obsession, i'd have thought it obvious that I was talking about his obsession for football and delivering results.  The point being that this trumps pretty much everything in his world, including getting the right amount of sleep and having any time off to be with his family.  He is laser focused so as long as it's legal, he wouldn't care if it upset a few people.  Results are far more important.  No contradiction whatsoever, the absolute reverse really.

Also, I do feel like you're under some sort of delusion that there is a consensus of opinion about this.  There's no such thing and many ex pros have come out in his defence, as have fans from other clubs.  What makes your ire over this more worthy than their opinions?  Why should he worry about upsetting you if there is no consensus?  How would he even go about finding out if it's going to trigger a moral outrage in some quarters?  Nah.  Not having that one i'm afraid mate.  You stick to your voyeurism. 
 

[Pub Breath]

8 minutes ago, rynny said:

It's like that down the whole road, would you like me to go video record the whole perimeter for you? 

Aye, if you don't mind mate.  Hurry though, daylight is fading and I need an early night.  Got a long drive down to Stoke's training ground tomorrow morning.

[Curtains]

37 minutes ago, Pub Breath said:

Aye, if you don't mind mate.  Hurry though, daylight is fading and I need an early night.  Got a long drive down to Stoke's training ground tomorrow morning.

Why you taking the piss . Cheating Manager is the problem mate. 

[McRainy]

2 hours ago, Geriatram said:

All pliers have wire cutters built in them.

Mine don't. 

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

Mine don't. 

Got any 81s

[TuffLuff]

To be honest I’m still not sure what I really think about all this. I’ve read lots on both sides that I’ve agreed with but also a lot I disagree with.

The best point I’ve read that’s not been discussed here was by David Preece in his independent article stating that Lampard let it affect him too much, and thus let it affect the players too, when he could have used it to his advantage (the rest of the article I wouldn’t agree with though so I wouldn’t bother). If there’s a lesson to be learnt from this, that is essentially it for me

Im not sure the ‘all clubs do stuff like this’ response entirely works either. Do all clubs get caught which disrupts your oppositions preperation the day before a game? If you take the the spying aspect out of this, essentially a Leeds employee has travelled however amount of miles and disrupted the opposition before they play each other. Then the manager admits he sent him. Surely that’s why any sort of charge should be first? Then you add that it meant Biesla knew what our team was? It’s an advantage he shouldn’t have had because it helped his team selection. Also I think there’s a huge difference to ‘listening in’ on a dressing room to spying on a training pitch, because at one of them both teams are actually meant to be there. What is surely being found out will help the manager with about 30 mins before KO, not a whole day before a game.

Then there’s the ‘top’ pundits who have defended it, they are all players who played with a ‘win at all costs’ attitude so the likes of Ferdinand/Neville etc are gonna take that stance. But that’s a million miles away from my position as a fan who wants to be entertained in a somewhat fair way. Same goes for the Guardiolas and Pochettino’s who defend him. 

So...I still don’t know, but I do feel the argument the press and we have on here is essentially the wrong one. I think there’s a lot of people want it to be about ‘spying’ and the act itself, when I think the bigger problem is the disruption it caused.

Also all this has blown over the fact that their keeper should be getting retrospective action and won’t do.

[Curtains]

5 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

To be honest I’m still not sure what I really think about all this. I’ve read lots on both sides that I’ve agreed with but also a lot I disagree with.

The best point I’ve read that’s not been discussed here was by David Preece in his independent article stating that Lampard let it affect him too much, and thus let it affect the players too, when he could have used it to his advantage (the rest of the article I wouldn’t agree with though so I wouldn’t bother). If there’s a lesson to be learnt from this, that is essentially it for me

Im not sure the ‘all clubs do stuff like this’ response entirely works either. Do all clubs get caught which disrupts your oppositions preperation the day before a game? If you take the the spying aspect out of this, essentially a Leeds employee has travelled however amount of miles and disrupted the opposition before they play each other. Then the manager admits he sent him. Surely that’s why any sort of charge should be first? Then you add that it meant Biesla knew what our team was? It’s an advantage he shouldn’t have had because it helped his team selection. Also I think there’s a huge difference to ‘listening in’ on a dressing room to spying on a training pitch, because at one of them both teams are actually meant to be there. What is surely being found out will help the manager with about 30 mins before KO, not a whole day before a game.

Then there’s the ‘top’ pundits who have defended it, they are all players who played with a ‘win at all costs’ attitude so the likes of Ferdinand/Neville etc are gonna take that stance. But that’s a million miles away from my position as a fan who wants to be entertained in a somewhat fair way. Same goes for the Guardiolas and Pochettino’s who defend him. 

So...I still don’t know, but I do feel the argument the press and we have on here is essentially the wrong one. I think there’s a lot of people want it to be about ‘spying’ and the act itself, when I think the bigger problem is the disruption it caused.

Also all this has blown over the fact that their keeper should be getting retrospective action and won’t do.

Rio played for Leeds.  He’s going to defend them 

[Mr Tibbs]

@TuffLuff's post is bang on the money.

Getting to the point where i'm starting to not care anymore, we had the opportunity to use it but instead it rattled our manager and in turn the performance was a complete mess. 

I think it's bad sportsmanship for sure but poo happens. Bad taste left in the mouth but they've apologised so let's crack on with our season and put it to bed. Sick of hearing about how their managers a cheat, their team are cheats etc etc. Just as much as I am sick of Leeds fans trying to take some high ground over a bit of victimisation when all they ever tell you about is how the EFL, FIFA, UEFA, BTP, Thatcher and vegans are all against them. 

 

[TuffLuff]

14 minutes ago, Mr Tibbs said:

@TuffLuff's post is bang on the money.

Getting to the point where i'm starting to not care anymore, we had the opportunity to use it but instead it rattled our manager and in turn the performance was a complete mess. 

I think it's bad sportsmanship for sure but poo happens. Bad taste left in the mouth but they've apologised so let's crack on with our season and put it to bed. Sick of hearing about how their managers a cheat, their team are cheats etc etc. Just as much as I am sick of Leeds fans trying to take some high ground over a bit of victimisation when all they ever tell you about is how the EFL, FIFA, UEFA, BTP, Thatcher and vegans are all against them. 

 

I think Frank has learnt a valuable lesson and hopefully one he won’t fall in to the same trap of again. He’s still learning essentially and I’ve found this season that he’s made as many fantastic decisions as he has bad ones. On Friday it was a bad one unfortunately that he will need to learn from.

[maxjam]

17 hours ago, Lambchop said:

I'm not saying it's ok in and of itself, I'm saying we have to situate our reaction within the context of what goes on more widely. 

The relevance of Mourinho's past actions is that they cast doubt over the honesty of Frank's position.

I'm not giving Bielsa a 'free pass' at all, but his position is at least consistent. Frank's may be too, but there is now a doubt; it will be interesting to see if he makes a statement to clarify things.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/12040/11607366/derby-manager-frank-lampard-dismisses-chelsea-spying-claims

 

"To say this thing is commonplace in the modern game, I don't believe it all," Lampard, who spent 13 years at Stamford Bridge, said.

"There were talks about Chelsea used to do this years ago - I certainly wasn't aware of it and I don't believe it at all.

"Certainly not in the form that it's happened this time."

[Jacko1983]

The more it goes on the more I think that the intention was to get caught.

 

I can’t see why he would need to spy on training. You only have to watch the last few games to realise that playing the ball out wide and peppering the box with crosses and you’re bound to score against us.

[Cjay]

22 minutes ago, Jacko1983 said:

The more it goes on the more I think that the intention was to get caught.

 

I can’t see why he would need to spy on training. You only have to watch the last few games to realise that playing the ball out wide and peppering the box with crosses and you’re bound to score against us.

This was speculated on when the story broke. 

Its ludicrous, but entirely possible, look at the effect it had on Lampard and the players, could argue that was far more effective then any set piece drills that may have been seen. 

Probably never know, but i am certain MB knew the legal side of it, he is no fool and would have checked. 

Mind games Frankie lad. 

The effect of this going public could be the greatest weapon Bielsa has had all season, imagine the paranoia going around now. 

[Norman]

17 minutes ago, Cjay said:

This was speculated on when the story broke. 

Its ludicrous, but entirely possible, look at the effect it had on Lampard and the players, could argue that was far more effective then any set piece drills that may have been seen. 

Probably never know, but i am certain MB knew the legal side of it, he is no fool and would have checked. 

Mind games Frankie lad. 

The effect of this going public could be the greatest weapon Bielsa has had all season, imagine the paranoia going around now. 

Yeah, it's ludricous. Take your tin foil hat off.

[roboto]

https://twitter.com/jonothesecond/status/1083807707054985217?s=21

[MuespachRam]

I think that Lampard really missed a trick with this and maybe a more experienced manager would have handled it better and used it to his advantage.

If he had met the 2 "spies" and invited them in to the training ground, got hold of the press and made a big song and dance about showing them around, meeting a few of the players, having a bit of breakfast with them (no sausages though) and then said what a compliment it was that the top of the table team felt it necessary to send "spies" to little old Derby it would have just stuck a big two fingers up at Leeds and made them look stupid.

And for him to say that he doesn't think it is common place.....that's like saying no one gets tapped up for transfers.

[curb]

It wasn’t Derby that apprehended them though, it was the police, probably tipped off by residents worried about strange middle aged men creeping around the bushes with binoculars.