McRainy Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 When did pliers become wire cutters, out of interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geriatram Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 All pliers have wire cutters built in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pub Breath Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 hour ago, StivePesley said: Yet the extreme examples I gave you - which you said were "absolutely not" OK are not specifically illegal, so you've just totally contradicted yourself there. If the law is the "obvious line" not to cross then you should be saying all those examples are OK I was working on the reasonable assumption that there would have had to have been some illegal entry in order to carry out the bugging in the first place. Even then, there's obviously a clear difference between observing an act carried out in public and sneaking around inside an organisation's premises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BathRam72 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 30 minutes ago, Geriatram said: All pliers have wire cutters built in them. I can't agree with you there. Being an engineer, I know of plenty that don't. However there are lots that do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TobyWanKenobi Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Wonder if anyone ever spied on a Nigel Clough training session and what they made of the team playing cricket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Pub Breath said: I was working on the reasonable assumption that there would have had to have been some illegal entry in order to carry out the bugging in the first place. How would it need "illegal entry" for Leeds to bug the away dressing room IN THEIR OWN STADIUM? 2 minutes ago, Pub Breath said: Even then, there's obviously a clear difference between observing an act carried out in public and sneaking around inside an organisation's premises You've been told multiple times that the training session at Moor Farm was NOT a public session, and the guy was clearly equipped to enter the premises and had full intent to do so if necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 minute ago, TobyWanKenobi said: Wonder if anyone ever spied on a Nigel Clough training session and what they made of the team playing cricket. Probably thought they had borrowed Wisdom's satnav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pub Breath Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, StivePesley said: How would it need "illegal entry" for Leeds to bug the away dressing room IN THEIR OWN STADIUM? You've been told multiple times that the training session at Moor Farm was NOT a public session, and the guy was clearly equipped to enter the premises and had full intent to do so if necessary. The bloke was approached on public land, was he not? It doesn't make any difference whether the training session was openly advertised to the public or not. If it was within viewing distance of public places, it's in the public arena. You know no more than I do whether he ever intended to use the pliars/cutter/toe nail clippers or whatever they were. We know bugger all about them and what they may or may not have been capable of doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambam Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 9 minutes ago, Pub Breath said: The bloke was approached on public land, was he not? It doesn't make any difference whether the training session was openly advertised to the public or not. If it was within viewing distance of public places, it's in the public arena. You know no more than I do whether he ever intended to use the pliars/cutter/toe nail clippers or whatever they were. We know bugger all about them and what they may or may not have been capable of doing. You’ll all arguing over semantics. The point is Bielsa admitted sending the guy, and that he’s always done it. He then effectively stuck two fingers up at the FA, even inferring he will carry on doing it. All these folk making light of the situation ignore the fact Bielsa must think sending the guy will give him an unfair advantage, otherwise why do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Give it up mate - your logic is all over the place 21 minutes ago, Pub Breath said: If it was within viewing distance of public places, it's in the public arena. So if some bloke was up a tree with binoculars watching your missus undressing in her bedroom, you;d be cool with that because it's within viewing distance of a public place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pub Breath Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, Rambam said: You’ll all arguing over semantics. The point is Bielsa admitted sending the guy, and that he’s always done it. He then effectively stuck two fingers up at the FA, even inferring he will carry on doing it. All these folk making light of the situation ignore the fact Bielsa must think sending the guy will give him an unfair advantage, otherwise why do it? He very skillfully (I thought) inferred nothing. He let us work it out for ourselves. Not that this sticks two fingers up to the FA mind. There are no laws broken so he's within his rights and entirely free to carry on doing it, if he wishes. Change the word "unfair" to "potential" and you're dead right in your last sentence. Or perhaps he feels he will be at a disadvantage if he doesn't do it? I'm not going to say this practice is entirely routine, I suspect it isn't in the UK. By the same token, it's also clearly far from out of the ordinary either. I've read loads about this since Friday and many pieces where ex pros are talking about the fact that this sort of stuff happens all the time. It's nothing new. I'd go as far as to say, there's every chance that - gulp - Derby have done something similar at some point. If people don't think that football clubs go to all manner of obscure and sometimes morally dubious lengths to get an edge, they're incredibly naive. What we see on the pitch is certainly a reasonable reflection of what is likely to take place off it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TobyWanKenobi Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 34 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Probably thought they had borrowed Wisdom's satnav If they asked nicely, they could have borrowed Mel Morris' drone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pub Breath Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, StivePesley said: Give it up mate - your logic is all over the place So if some bloke was up a tree with binoculars watching your missus undressing in her bedroom, you;d be cool with that because it's within viewing distance of a public place? Frankly, i'd be very concerned about the welfare of my tree. That Hawthorn has been there longer than i've been alive. Could do without some fat arsed voyeur bringing the poor thing down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambam Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Pub Breath said: He very skillfully (I thought) inferred nothing. He let us work it out for ourselves. Not that this sticks two fingers up to the FA mind. There are no laws broken so he's within his rights and entirely free to carry on doing it, if he wishes. Change the word "unfair" to "potential" and you're dead right in your last sentence. Or perhaps he feels he will be at a disadvantage if he doesn't do it? I'm not going to say this practice is entirely routine, I suspect it isn't in the UK. By the same token, it's also clearly far from out of the ordinary either. I've read loads about this since Friday and many pieces where ex pros are talking about the fact that this sort of stuff happens all the time. It's nothing new. I'd go as far as to say, there's every chance that - gulp - Derby have done something similar at some point. If people don't think that football clubs go to all manner of obscure and sometimes morally dubious lengths to get an edge, they're incredibly naive. What we see on the pitch is certainly a reasonable reflection of what is likely to take place off it. Good argument. Of course training sessions were often open to the public, but here we are talking about private sessions to work on tactics/formations/personnel. I don’t think we are naive enough to think this sort of thing doesn’t go on, but I believe a line should now be drawn in the sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, Pub Breath said: That Hawthorn has been there longer than i've been alive. I know it has. But don't worry, it more than adequately takes my weight. Glad you're cool with it man ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pub Breath Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Rambam said: Good argument. Of course training sessions were often open to the public, but here we are talking about private sessions to work on tactics/formations/personnel. I don’t think we are naive enough to think this sort of thing doesn’t go on, but I believe a line should now be drawn in the sand. I think that's fair enough. If it triggers the FL to create a ruling to say clubs will face punishments if they are caught sending "spies" to watch these sorts of sessions, i'd have no issue with that. Us and Bielsa would have to toe the line. One of the many, many things I adore about the mad one is his relentless, obsessive attention to detail. That's why my first reaction to this was laughter. It's just him all over. When you understand the incredible drive the bloke has, you can understand why he's not sat around wondering if he might be falling foul of some native moral code when he makes these sorts of calls. It'll just be one tiny part of his master plan and as long as it's legal, he'll just crack on with it. Wouldn't wish to be that way but his obsessiveness is an astonishing thing to witness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 46 minutes ago, Pub Breath said: The bloke was approached on public land, was he not? It doesn't make any difference whether the training session was openly advertised to the public or not. If it was within viewing distance of public places, it's in the public arena. You know no more than I do whether he ever intended to use the pliars/cutter/toe nail clippers or whatever they were. We know bugger all about them and what they may or may not have been capable of doing. Yes he had clear sight of the training pitches from the public road he was approached on. I mean look how clear it is. ? 1 hour ago, rynny said: Seen a few people say if he was watching from the road then it isn't an issue. The view from the road is this all around the training centre, so any one still think it isn't a big deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pub Breath Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, rynny said: Yes he had clear sight of the training pitches from the public road he was approached on. I mean look how clear it is. ? Aye. One still of a three meter section of the road in summer must surely be a 100% accurate representation of the whole road (and other around it) in the middle of winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, Pub Breath said: One of the many, many things I adore about the mad one is his relentless, obsessive attention to detail. That's why my first reaction to this was laughter. It's just him all over. When you understand the incredible drive the bloke has, you can understand why he's not sat around wondering if he might be falling foul of some native moral code when he makes these sorts of calls. Yet again your logic is contradictory though You admire his "relentless obsessive attention to detail" but then you think he's not "sat around wondering if he might be falling foul of some native moral code" - if he's so obsessed with details and understanding the British game then he must surely have checked if this sort of thing was accepted practice. At least have the decency to admit that he did this knowing full well what a cheating **** it makes him look in the eyes of most British football fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 2 hours ago, StivePesley said: Yet the extreme examples I gave you - which you said were "absolutely not" OK are not specifically illegal, so you've just totally contradicted yourself there. If the law is the "obvious line" not to cross then you should be saying all those examples are OK Debating ethics with a Dirty Leeds fan is like banging your head against a brick wall. It solves nothing, but feels better when you stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.