Butterfield

[Alph]

17 minutes ago, Saity said:

He signed a contract yes and doesn't have to budge I get that,  we offered him the contract in the first place.

The only issue I have now is that IF he is not trying to get into our first team squad then that is bound to make some fans feel a bit aggravated as  I'm sure we didn't sign him to give up trying if he was down the pecking order.

Has he given up trying though?

[Alph]

Reading through the thread it strikes me that nobody has a good reason for disliking him so much. 

It's one of those kind of trendy things. Like when football went mad for that Januzaj because he played well against Sunderland. "He could play for England you know, if he chooses". Everyone was talking about him for about 2 months. He'd gone from the reality (playing well against Sunderland, to the fantasy (beating Sunderland on his own with sublime touch, control and finishing)

You know like with Chris Martin now. Some people feel the urge to come down really strong on one side of the fence. Could it not be that he was really good but now isn't and we can appreciate what he did for the club but leave it at that?

No, he's either club legend that should be playing for us now or he's a donkey who was always a bit rubbish. 

Butterfield was a good player before coming here and it's not worked out for him. He's not been awful. He's not been anything really. His impact has been next to nothing. Neither good or bad. I really don't understand the strong opinions on him. He's never slagged us off and yet people have pretended to be offended. He's never set out to play poorly. Yet people accuse him of not trying. 

It's weird, man. 

I might start an Anya hate campaign. Another player who's impact has been like a drop of rain in the sea. 

[Warren Hobhead]

Can  @OwenB87 perhaps shed light on the situation regards Butterfield and Thorne? It’s lovely that we are doing well and long may that continue but perhaps some clarity on this would end all the dubious speculation.

 

[S8TY]

51 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Has he given up trying though?

I'm not saying he has hence the bold IF   ?

[RoyMac5]

43 minutes ago, Alpha said:

 

Butterfield was a good player before coming here and it's not worked out for him...Neither good or bad. I really don't understand the strong opinions on him. He's never slagged us off and yet people have pretended to be offended. He's never set out to play poorly. Yet people accuse him of not trying. 

That is the crux of the matter. A (seemingly) good player doing nothing for us and not seeming to be bothered. He was plenty talkative when he went out on loan, but not so much now. What is there not to understand, how can fans say good things about him then? Not bothered either way to be honest, it’s an international break and not much going on, it’s as good a topic as any. How long will it take Butterfield to disappear into the abyss of ex-Derby players who did nowt?

[cheron85]

4 hours ago, cannable said:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derby-countys-style-play-not-450632.amp

Cheron85 has said that Derby County manager Gary Rowett's style of play was one of the reasons that made him want to leave the club.

Truefax... Debated giving up my season ticket for the first time in 25+ years

1 hour ago, Saity said:

The only issue I have now is that IF he is not trying to get into our first team squad then that is bound to make some fans feel a bit aggravated as  I'm sure we didn't sign him to give up trying if he was down the pecking order.

I just don't think it's worth speculating - The problem is even with your caveat IF in there people will just read the rest and assume

1 hour ago, Alpha said:

Reading through the thread it strikes me that nobody has a good reason for disliking him so much. 

He's out of favour with the management so it justifies anyone who didn't like him before having a pop

I have no doubt he's turning up to training every day and trying to get game time - He's not gonna get a good move/contract after this one expires otherwise - ALL of the guys who's contracts expire this year are playing for their future this season - Either they get another one here (Johnson and Bryson seem pole position for this) or they need game time to persuade someone else to sign them on a decent contract

21 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

That is the crux of the matter. A (seemingly) good player doing nothing for us and not seeming to be bothered. He was plenty talkative when he went out on loan, but not so much now. What is there not to understand, how can fans say good things about him then? Not bothered either way to be honest, it’s an international break and not much going on, it’s as good a topic as any. How long will it take Butterfield to disappear into the abyss of ex-Derby players who did nowt?

He's a perfectly decent player who's been screwed by circumstance:

• Clement panic bought him to fill a role vacated by Hughes' injury - Not as good and was asked to do a lot more defensive work than he should have been cos of Clement's boring ass system
• Pearson - Well - I mean - No one looked good then
• McClaren tried to steady things then was sacked again
• Rowett came in and instigated even more boring, defensive football than Clement - Obviously Butterfield didn't fit that

I feel sorry for him more than wanting to have a go at him - Almost as sorry as I feel for Pearce and Martin

[RoyMac5]

@cheron85 you seem to know lots about his playing preferences, what happened for the Wendies then?

[Alph]

40 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

That is the crux of the matter. A (seemingly) good player doing nothing for us and not seeming to be bothered. He was plenty talkative when he went out on loan, but not so much now. What is there not to understand, how can fans say good things about him then? Not bothered either way to be honest, it’s an international break and not much going on, it’s as good a topic as any. How long will it take Butterfield to disappear into the abyss of ex-Derby players who did nowt?

A seemingly good player transfering and not repeating the level of performance happens all the time in football. Including some of the greatest players in the world  

He talked himself up when joining a new club? Happens with every player ever. 

Not seeming to be bothered. How? Why is he not bothered? 

I don't really expect fans to say good things about him. But I wouldn't expect them to go on like he's a massive pain in the arse for them. He costs them nothing at all. He has zero impact on them 

Probably about as long as Anya and Saul Deeney who haven't had the hate

[Coneheadjohn]

1 hour ago, Alpha said:

It's weird, man

You made me think of that scene in Platoon where Charlie Sheen gets taken into those tents and they’re all smoking weed Willem Defoe puts that rifle in his mouth and blows draw in the bolt action and goes.

”What do think of Jacob Butterfield?”

And Charlie Sheen just falls over all mashed.

Perhaps that’s the right way to discuss Butters?

 

I do realise he didn’t actually say that btw.

[VulcanRam]

I was delighted when we signed Butterfield and to be honest feel for him. He had a good career up until he arrived here and it's hit the skids big time. I can't believe he's not technically gifted enough to contribute but who knows what happens behind the door of the training ground. 

He's clearly not going to get any football here so I hope he leaves and can resurrect his career somewhere. 

Just one of those things that hasn't worked out.

[RoyMac5]

12 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Not seeming to be bothered. How? Why is he not bothered? 

I don't really expect fans to say good things about him. But I wouldn't expect them to go on like he's a massive pain in the arse for them. He costs them nothing at all. He has zero impact on them 

Probably about as long as Anya and Saul Deeney who haven't had the hate

Dunno, he does even get the ‘press’ Anya got preseason, maybe for a reason? 

As for costs them nothing, they pay to see the team play, he’s paid to be part of that team - he’s spending another players money. The days of worrying about the Clubs finances and how they spend money are back, although in reality they never went away.

Why do you think he’s so keen to do well for us?

[cheron85]

17 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

@cheron85 you seem to know lots about his playing preferences, what happened for the Wendies then?

No idea - I don't watch them and when they came to us he wasn't allowed to play ?

Clement, Pearson and Rowett played dull as hell, defensive football - Plus the whole club and players have been screwed around by the change in management every five minutes

I've said it in about 10 threads now - I'm not going to have a pop at any player who's had to put up with Derby over the last 3 years - We've been an absolute basket case and it's no wonder players have paid the price for that

Maybe you could try the same - Is my main point...

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

2 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

No idea - I don't watch them and when they came to us he wasn't allowed to play ?

Clement, Pearson and Rowett played dull as hell, defensive football - Plus the whole club and players have been screwed around by the change in management every five minutes

I've said it in about 10 threads now - I'm not going to have a pop at any player who's had to put up with Derby over the last 3 years - We've been an absolute basket case and it's no wonder players have paid the price for that

Maybe you could try the same - Is my main point...

Absolutely this - well said. 

Consistency brings out the best in most players and we've defintely not had that. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

I don't see how being mashed will help the.butterfield debate?

[eddie]

20 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Dunno, he does even get the ‘press’ Anya got preseason, maybe for a reason? 

As for costs them nothing, they pay to see the team play, he’s paid to be part of that team - he’s spending another players money. The days of worrying about the Clubs finances and how they spend money are back, although in reality they never went away.

Why do you think he’s so keen to do well for us?

You are the person saying that he's not bothered - basically you are accusing Butterfield of being a parasite. You have to justify that statement - you haven't given any reason apart from the fact that he's still at Derby and you would rather him not be so.

[cheron85]

1 minute ago, CHCDerby said:

Absolutely this - well said. 

Consistency brings out the best in most players and we've defintely not had that. 

There's some obsession at the moment on this forum with hammering players personally (they're lazy, they don't care, they're bad influences, they're just collecting a paycheck) just because someone doesn't like the way they play - Or thinks they aren't good enough to play for us

Butterfield is a slower paced footballer - Much like Huddlestone and Martin are - They don't run around as much as other players but their positioning is generally better - He's obviously got some talent (scored 8 in 40 first season from CM which isn't a dreadful return) but has been another victim of circumstance here

[cannable]

He hasn’t really succeeded with us because he has always been played as a #8 when, by his own admission, he’s a controller.

He played deep when we smashed Wolves 4-2 under Rowett and was MOTM and had a few brief cameos deep under McClaren whenever we went 4-2-3-1 trying to turn a game around and in which he instigated most of our attacks. 

He’s never even been used as the #8 who drops deep and helps control the game, that was always Johnson under Clement and Hughes under McClaren. He isn’t quick enough or energetic enough for the role he’s usually given. 

I actually think he’d suit the role Bryson’s currently playing in, dropping in to make a two off the ball and when in possession showing for it before pushing up the pitch. He’s got a better range of passing than Bryson, brings a greater level of control and, if Mount’s the player bursting into the box, is ideal to be the player on the edge ready to shoot or recycle. 

I doubt he’ll get a chance though, I think Lampard values work rate and energy over technique to be honest. 

[RoyMac5]

10 minutes ago, eddie said:

You are the person saying that he's not bothered - basically you are accusing Butterfield of being a parasite. You have to justify that statement - you haven't given any reason apart from the fact that he's still at Derby and you would rather him not be so.

No, I said seemingly - that’s what this thread is about isn’t it?

 

17 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

No idea - I don't watch them and when they came to us he wasn't allowed to play ?

Clement, Pearson and Rowett played dull as hell, defensive football - Plus the whole club and players have been screwed around by the change in management every five minutes

I've said it in about 10 threads now - I'm not going to have a pop at any player who's had to put up with Derby over the last 3 years - We've been an absolute basket case and it's no wonder players have paid the price for that

Maybe you could try the same - Is my main point...

I’ll leave giving Butterfield another chance up to Frankie & Jody, doesn’t matter what I think of him. There’s been plenty of talk about him not wanting to be here, if he’s putting in the effort I’m sure he’ll get to play, don’t you think?

[Alph]

26 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Dunno, he does even get the ‘press’ Anya got preseason, maybe for a reason? 

As for costs them nothing, they pay to see the team play, he’s paid to be part of that team - he’s spending another players money. The days of worrying about the Clubs finances and how they spend money are back, although in reality they never went away.

Why do you think he’s so keen to do well for us?

I don't really think about him at all. I just assume he's working everyday because I've not seen any reason to think he's not other than fans pulling it out the blue sky. 

Did Anya get press? I genuinley didn't notice. Has that helped him? 

Yeah, fans pay to see the team play. If he doesn't play does that effect my money? Should I not be furious with Marriott on Saturday? Or Olsson?

Why does anyone care how Derby spend their money? It's their money. I don't care how ASDA spend their money. I just care that Derby continue to exist and I care about the matches. Why does anyone care what money Butterfield gets from a contract signed by him and Derby. 

But ok, I get it. The reason Derby fans have a particular dislike for Butterfield is because they think that their wages are going directly into his pocket. 

Now you've got me thinking like that then I would like to see quite a few cutbacks. A squad size of 20. Off a few of Lampard's staff. No way does Carson need coaching so I can save a few quid there. And get rid of the tannoy guy and the Matchday Rams TV stuff. Do all that and I get cheaper tickets?

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, cannable said:

He hasn’t really succeeded with us because he has always been played as a #8 when, by his own admission, he’s a controller.

He played deep when we smashed Wolves 4-2 under Rowett and was MOTM and had a few brief cameos deep under McClaren whenever we went 4-2-3-1 trying to turn a game around and in which he instigated most of our attacks. 

He’s never even been used as the #8 who drops deep and helps control the game, that was always Johnson under Clement and Hughes under McClaren. He isn’t quick enough or energetic enough for the role he’s usually given. 

I actually think he’d suit the role Bryson’s currently playing in, dropping in to make a two off the ball and when in possession showing for it before pushing up the pitch. He’s got a better range of passing than Bryson, brings a greater level of control and, if Mount’s the player bursting into the box, is ideal to be the player on the edge ready to shoot or recycle. 

I doubt he’ll get a chance though, I think Lampard values work rate and energy over technique to be honest. 

I’d like to see him play Bryson’s role - if he’s any good he’ll get chance.