Butterfield

[Alph]

Colin Gibson out. Only need 1 interviewer and I need the cash. 

[McRainy]

As others have indicated, it would just be nice to know how he's getting on. It's the dearth of information which leads people to speculate. 

I take all the points about mitigating circumstances, with the instability of the club etc, but he was a big money signing for the time, so can potentially be implicated in holding us back when he isn't seen to be contributing.

Now we have a style of management which presumably suits him, it would be good to know how close he is to the squad. On paper, at least, he could be a useful squad player, so there is a fairly natural suspicion when he isn't being utilised.

If there are fitness issues, or he's on the way out, that would explain things, but we simply don't know. 

[cannable]

15 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I’d like to see him play Bryson’s role - if he’s any good he’ll get chance.

That’s not necessarily true though because, as I mentioned, Lampard seems to be graft and energy first and technique second. 

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, cannable said:

That’s not necessarily true though because, as I mentioned, Lampard seems to be athleticness first and technique second. 

Or he doesn’t agree with your assessment of Butterfield?

[eddie]

27 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

No, I said seemingly - that’s what this thread is about isn’t it?

 

Isn't 'seemingly' the second cousin of 'allegedly'?

[Alph]

I think it's obvious that Lampard didn't have a plan for Butterfield in the squad. I don't think anyone has argued strongly that he should be involved. He was welcome to leave probably

But that still doesn't suggest he's got any sort of attitude problem. It could simply be that Lampard doesn't rate him.

As for not wanting to leave. Maybe it was a move too far away. Maybe it was to a club he doesn't want to play for. Maybe he wants to prove Lampard wrong and hasn't given up playing for Derby. Maybe he doesn't care about playing and just wants a few quid. Who knows? But why, when it comes to speculating, is it more likely to be that he's milking us rather than he believes if he performs well, works hard etc, then Lampard will notice? When nobody knows the answer, why assume the worst?

 

[cannable]

20 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Or he doesn’t agree with your assessment of Butterfield?

Maybe. 

And maybe he doesn’t agree with our assessments of Martin either. 

But from what I’ve seen and his interviews I’d say it’s more likely that the key philosophy behind Lampard’s system is pressing and this is unfortunate for our slow technicians. But that’s football.

[King Kevin]

28 minutes ago, cannable said:

That’s not necessarily true though because, as I mentioned, Lampard seems to be graft and energy first and technique second. 

That's not borne out by the players he's bought ,sure your not mixing him up with Two Shots .

[cannable]

3 minutes ago, King Kevin said:

That's not borne out by the players he's bought ,sure your not mixing him up with Two Shots .

I worded that badly, I think players need to be capable of pressing in this team and so slow technicians like Butterfield, Martin, Thorne etcetera don’t have a place anymore.

[derbydaz22]

3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Is he reading this thread then? Hi Butters! Pull ya finge r out mate, see if you can play 90 minutes for the U23s tonight, instead of being subbed off...

I’m on about during a game I would hope our players don’t read some of the negative posts on here.

[Comrade 86]

Not sure about the whole 'he should leave to save the club money' thing which is often bandied about where Butters is concerned. If we buy a player and contract him isn't it our responsibility to move them on if the move doesn't work out? I think the lad's demeanour doesn't help him much but there's nothing categorical that shows he doesn't want to be here, least I've not noticed anything.

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, eddie said:

Isn't 'seemingly' the second cousin of 'allegedly'?

Might be. But so what.

[RoyMac5]

28 minutes ago, 86 points said:

Not sure about the whole 'he should leave to save the club money' thing which is often bandied about where Butters is concerned. If we buy a player and contract him isn't it our responsibility to move them on if the move doesn't work out? I think the lad's demeanour doesn't help him much but there's nothing categorical that shows he doesn't want to be here, least I've not noticed anything.

Isn’t ‘nothing categorical ‘ the second cousin of ... ?

[europia]

On 31/08/2018 at 23:49, RamNut said:

We offered him a contract. He's entitled to be paid.

Yes that's the reality. Anyone who hasn't realised that football is nothing more than business, has been living under a rock...for a very long time. 

[ramesses]

I know nothing about him except that his football bored and frustrated me in a way that the football of the other Derby players just didn’t.

Whenever he got possession I always expected that the ball would soon end up back with the keeper and we’d have to start from scratch again. I’m not sure why his impact on games always seemed to be so limited when so many at the time were describing him as ‘technically gifted’. I’d have thought that whatever his other attributes and irrespective of managerial changes and tactics you’d expect something more from a ‘technically gifted’ player than what he actually produced.

[cheron85]

4 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

I’ll leave giving Butterfield another chance up to Frankie & Jody, doesn’t matter what I think of him. There’s been plenty of talk about him not wanting to be here, if he’s putting in the effort I’m sure he’ll get to play, don’t you think?

Maybe - Maybe not - I think the talk is idle speculation by members of this forum who have no idea but like to speculate (as we all do from time to time)

[Comrade 86]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Isn’t ‘nothing categorical ‘ the second cousin of ... ?

Bang to rights ?

[therealhantsram]

I can't figure out why everyone is here debating Butterfields attitude, but not a jot about Anya. Why does Butterfield get all the hate? 

[cannable]

4 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

No, I said seemingly - that’s what this thread is about isn’t it?

 

I’ll leave giving Butterfield another chance up to Frankie & Jody, doesn’t matter what I think of him. There’s been plenty of talk about him not wanting to be here, if he’s putting in the effort I’m sure he’ll get to play, don’t you think?

That’s just the knuckle dragging gammon extrapolating an interview he gave over a year when leaving because of not fitting the then manager’s style of play 

[cannable]

1 hour ago, ramesses said:

I know nothing about him except that his football bored and frustrated me in a way that the football of the other Derby players just didn’t.

Whenever he got possession I always expected that the ball would soon end up back with the keeper and we’d have to start from scratch again. I’m not sure why his impact on games always seemed to be so limited when so many at the time were describing him as ‘technically gifted’. I’d have thought that whatever his other attributes and irrespective of managerial changes and tactics you’d expect something more from a ‘technically gifted’ player than what he actually produced.

He’s technically gifted in the sense that he can striker a ball well, use both feet, has a decent range of passing, two-footed and can make half a yard for himself.

In 15/16 he was the most advanced midfielder so his forward passing options were to Ince, Martin and Russell. The former two wanting it to feet and, with Butters playing predominantly on the right, a diagonal to Russell. It wasn’t really set up for him to go around spraying passes. 

He isn’t the sort to go on mazy dribbles. 

He bagged nine that season with seven from outside the box. 

In 16/17 it was pretty much the same but he was playing on the left of a midfield three and for a team whose most successful period came playing counter attacking football. Hughes suffered equally this season with only the Wolves and Leicester game coming to mind in which he was anything more then ‘meh’. 

I think the idea that he passed backwards all the time was unfair. As stated above he only ever had two realistic forward options. He ran the show on the odd occasions he played deeper and thus with more forward passing options - the following being a prime example. He instigates all three goals. 

The main problem was that he was quite slow on the ball, probably because he wants everything in front of him so he can pick passes.