Is Rowett's style boring?

[Alph]

6 minutes ago, jagerbob said:

McClaren 1st spell was consistsntly around 70% in the games i saw and the bbc stats i read from match reports so its not tripe.

i also found talk of patience and it being a full back game infuriating.

It was 55% on average with 13 shots per game on average in the 14/15 season. 

So tripe it is. The boring sideways possession you saw on a BBC stats page?

Full back game was the alternative to going through Martin. A bit like a plan b that we never had...

[Alph]

22 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

You OK hun?

Yes sweetheart

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said:

Rowett’s football this season has been horrible to watch, but that’s largely due to the players at his disposal.

I mean, the 343 system can be excellent, but like any system it requires having the right players which we don’t have.

I honestly prefer to see us dominate the ball. We make no attempt to do this as Carson boots it long every time.

We try to break up play, and counter with pace. The reason it looks so tedius is because we can’t do it very well.

There is zero mobility in midfield. BJ and Hudds can’t press. You need pace and a player who can tackle here, like a Kante type.

We lack genuine wingbacks, especially on the left. Wisdom is more of a CB playing out of position.

And in the final third we’re mostly rubbish. Weimann has no quality on the ball and Lawrence has been crap for 90% of the campaign.

Going back to point, it can be exciting to watch. With a fitter, more mobile team we would break up play more often and counter with better quality. We just don’t have anywhere near the players to do that.

And considering we don’t have much money, it could take us 3 or 4 years for Rowett to get close to the sort of team capable of entertaining. 

I’m happy to write off next year. 2019-20 is the start of it for me as most of our duffs are out of contract in the summer of 2019. Then it will give us a big clue as to Rowett’s intentions. If we give BJ a new contract or continue to sign ageing, slow players then Rowett can simply do one.

I often disagree with a lot of what you write BR but that is absolutely spot on. The system if carried out well is great to watch. On the odd occasion we have done it BUT we don't have the players and I don't see how we can currently acquire them.

[Pearl Ram]

18 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

Where did I say it was easy?

We lost becase of tiredness and Hudds wasn't allowed to dictate our play as he did in the first.

Which begs the questions why didn’t the manager anticipate this and alter his approach to alleviate a problem a lot of us were concerned about after the heroic efforts of the first leg ? Also why didn’t he do something about the Huddlestone situation when it first became apparent this was the case ? 

Fulham knew exactly how we were going to play and I think he missed an opportunity to take them by surprise and give them something to think about. 

But of course Rowett knows best. 

[Carnero]

1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said:

I’m happy to write off next year. 2019-20 is the start of it for me as most of our duffs are out of contract in the summer of 2019. Then it will give us a big clue as to Rowett’s intentions. If we give BJ a new contract or continue to sign ageing, slow players then Rowett can simply do one.

This is the crux of the matter for me.

Rowett is working with one hand tied behind his back until 2019, for now it's a case of muddling through as best we can, with a top 6 placing being a bonus this year (and hopefully next year too).

The true judge of Rowett will be the decisions taken in Summer 2019 and the subsequent 2019/20 team performance.

Time to show some patience for now I'm afraid boys and girls, whether you like it or not!

[Pearl Ram]

Oh I’m resigned to him being here for the long term so I’m going to let it go after this post but first, I’d just like point out, first it was judge him after a full season or two transfer windows, now, apparently it’s 2020 before he should be judged. What exactly has he done to warrant this luxury that his predecessors never got ? Didn’t they have to put up with other manager’s contracted players ?

And finally, a point I don’t think has been made yet, our game at Old Trafford in the cup, wasn’t that the first time in 15 years Manchester United hadn’t been chosen as a live game by either of the main broadcasters ? Why do we think that was ? In the end we received plaudits for a sterling performance of course but before a ball was kicked the broadcasters decided our reputation for pragmatism didn’t appeal. Says it all really. 

 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

32 minutes ago, Carnero said:

This is the crux of the matter for me.

Rowett is working with one hand tied behind his back until 2019, for now it's a case of muddling through as best we can, with a top 6 placing being a bonus this year (and hopefully next year too).

The true judge of Rowett will be the decisions taken in Summer 2019 and the subsequent 2019/20 team performance.

Time to show some patience for now I'm afraid boys and girls, whether you like it or not!

Jesus christ,I'm not waiting that long for him to go....2019/20!....you are having a bloody laugh.

Does anyone,including his fans, seriously want to watch this sort of football until then?....

I'd rather stick a fork in my eyes.

I really can't see either the fan base or Mel putting up with Gary's brand of football, if it doesn't radically change....the crowds will drop so much,Mel will have to act.

 

 

 

[Wolfie]

31 minutes ago, Carnero said:

This is the crux of the matter for me.

Rowett is working with one hand tied behind his back until 2019, for now it's a case of muddling through as best we can, with a top 6 placing being a bonus this year (and hopefully next year too).

The true judge of Rowett will be the decisions taken in Summer 2019 and the subsequent 2019/20 team performance.

Time to show some patience for now I'm afraid boys and girls, whether you like it or not!

Can someone please check on @RoyMac5? I fear he may have just had a stroke....

[t'oldu]

Maybe GR will jump ship if offered a job elsewhere with less financial limitation?  He sounded pretty fed up with having to rectify previous managers expensive, bad buys and the financial restraints it put on him....a very public  moan 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

1 minute ago, t'oldu said:

Maybe GR will jump ship if offered a job elsewhere with less financial limitation?  He sounded pretty fed up with having to rectify previous managers expensive, bad buys and the financial restraints it put on him....a very public  moan 

Thanks mate,you have managed to cheer me up a bit....

Where there's hope and all that.

 

[Bris Vegas]

4 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

Jesus christ,I'm not waiting that long for him to go....2019/20!....you are having a bloody laugh.

Does anyone,including his fans, seriously want to watch this sort of football for that long?

I really can't see either the fan base or Mel putting up with Gary's football, if it doesn't radically change,for that long....the crowds will drop so much,Mel will have to act.

 

 

 

The thing is, Rowett's football is largely boring because of the players he has at his disposal. It could be exciting, but only if he has the right pieces in place. Maybe we'd press more if we had more mobility in midfield. Maybe we'd bomb forward more if we had quicker wingbacks. Maybe we'd be more exciting more if we didn't have Weimann as an AM.

I'm really torn over Rowett. On one hand I'm peed he sold Hughes, and pretty annoyed he bought a bunch of ageing cloggers. But on the other hand, he hasn't got much room to manouvre in the market.

We all want to build a young, hungry exciting squad. But if Rowett isn't guaranteed the time to do this, why should he? Why not just target short-term promotion? Mel Morris sacked Clement when we were 5th, he sacked mac after taking us from 22nd to 8th. He sacked Pearson after 9 games. He hardly has a track record of letting a manager build something here. Why should Rowett look to build, when it only takes one bad run, us down in lower midtable and he gets sacked. Why risk it? He'd be better off just going all-out for promotion. All or nothing. Looks better on his CV to reach the playoffs and get sacked, than to get sacked with Derby down in 12th in stage one of a three-year rebuild.

Rowett needs assurances from Mel he will be here regardless of what happens. Only then can we truely see Rowett build towards his preferred style with him bringing in his preferred players.

Having said all that. If Rowett is given assurances, and he continues to buy ageing, slow players, like I said previosuly, he can do one.

Clough's football was horrible to watch for the first few years. But he was given assurances, and slowly but surely, it was decent. He was given time. Will Rowett be given the same time? Considering Mel's history, it's blody doubtful.

 

[metalsheep02]

42 minutes ago, Carnero said:

This is the crux of the matter for me.

Rowett is working with one hand tied behind his back until 2019, for now it's a case of muddling through as best we can, with a top 6 placing being a bonus this year (and hopefully next year too).

The true judge of Rowett will be the decisions taken in Summer 2019 and the subsequent 2019/20 team performance.

Time to show some patience for now I'm afraid boys and girls, whether you like it or not!

Is this right though?

I don't know but I have seen it suggested on here that it may be worse next summer as, with so many contracts expiring, if the club has got the residual value of the players wrong (lets face it anything above zero could well be wrong) then the FPP impact would be more severe than for this summer when only 4 players are out of contract.

Patience may be required for even longer if that were the case.

[HorsforthRam]

Some twitter rumours saying West Ham are interested in talking to our Gary...

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

2 minutes ago, HorsforthRam said:

Some twitter rumours saying West Ham are interested in talking to our Gary...

 

[North East Ram]

4 minutes ago, HorsforthRam said:

Some twitter rumours saying West Ham are interested in talking to our Gary...

That’ll chill the Hammers fans.

Rafa, Fonseca or Gary. 

Do we get Rafa to replace Gary?

[RoyMac5]

10 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

I'm really torn over Rowett. On one hand I'm peed he sold Hughes, and pretty annoyed he bought a bunch of ageing cloggers. But on the other hand, he hasn't got much room to manoeuvre in the market.

And yet he's already spent a fair amount of money!!!

FFS this is another excuse, all managers have to deal with other managers players. If he really wanted to play young, hungry players and was short of cash he could have used some of our U23s, instead of Jerome, but he chose not to. 

Goodness only knows what Rowetts squad will look like in 2020 when he's not able to entice any better loan player than an injured Palmer! ?

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

22 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

The thing is, Rowett's football is largely boring because of the players he has at his disposal. It could be exciting, but only if he has the right pieces in place. Maybe we'd press more if we had more mobility in midfield. Maybe we'd bomb forward more if we had quicker wingbacks. Maybe we'd be more exciting more if we didn't have Weimann as an AM.

I'm really torn over Rowett. On one hand I'm peed he sold Hughes, and pretty annoyed he bought a bunch of ageing cloggers. But on the other hand, he hasn't got much room to manouvre in the market.

We all want to build a young, hungry exciting squad. But if Rowett isn't guaranteed the time to do this, why should he? Why not just target short-term promotion? Mel Morris sacked Clement when we were 5th, he sacked mac after taking us from 22nd to 8th. He sacked Pearson after 9 games. He hardly has a track record of letting a manager build something here. Why should Rowett look to build, when it only takes one bad run, us down in lower midtable and he gets sacked. Why risk it? He'd be better off just going all-out for promotion. All or nothing. Looks better on his CV to reach the playoffs and get sacked, than to get sacked with Derby down in 12th in stage one of a three-year rebuild.

Rowett needs assurances from Mel he will be here regardless of what happens. Only then can we truely see Rowett build towards his preferred style with him bringing in his preferred players.

Having said all that. If Rowett is given assurances, and he continues to buy ageing, slow players, like I said previosuly, he can do one.

Clough's football was horrible to watch for the first few years. But he was given assurances, and slowly but surely, it was decent. He was given time. Will Rowett be given the same time? Considering Mel's history, it's blody doubtful.

 

Good insight bris although I really can't see Gary either having the ability to recruit young players that fit his system (whatever the ****that actually  is) or that I would enjoy his brand of football even then....it would still be kick and rush at a quicker pace and that's not for me to be honest,even if it's successful.

He admitted during  his interviews that Fulham are a damned good team and hard to beat so why on earth can't he look to creating a team that replicates that sort of football instead?

I'm prepared to put up with a couple of years of bringing such a squad on with mid table results just to watch a team like that developing.

But I think Gary is too limited and stubborn to do it I'm afraid.....

 

[Bris Vegas]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

And yet he's already spent a fair amount of money!!!

FFS this is another excuse, all managers have to deal with other managers players. If he really wanted to play young, hungry players and was short of cash he could have used some of our U23s, instead of Jerome, but he chose not to. 

Goodness only knows what Rowetts squad will look like in 2020 when he's not able to entice any better loan player than an injured Palmer! ?

As fans, we’d love nothing more than Rowett to bring in Bogle and Thomas, and buy three or four U23 players to put in the first team.

Ok so ge doea that, the style is more pleasing, but we’re down in 14th. As fans we can accept this as we can understand the need for a rebuild.

But our triggerhappy owner who is desperate for promotion so he can earn back all he has wasted has zero patience. A man who sacked Clement when 5th, sacked mac after going from 22nd to 8th, sacked Pearson after 9 games.

Mel isn’t happy. We’ve played well but our young hungry team just lost 2-0 at Ipswich. Rowett is sacked as a result...

Put yourself in Rowett’s shoes. Was it worth it? Answer... Clearly not. He mayaswell just have gone all out for promotion, signing players who have been there and done it like Hudds, Daviea and Jerome.

Ancelotti once said. Why should I play the youth when I’m in danger of being sacked if we lose... Or along those lines.

Isn’t Rowett in exactly the same boat with triggerhappy Mel as his employer?

 

[1967Ram]

9 hours ago, clarkeram7 said:

Baffles me how people would rather watch us pass sideways for 90 minutes. Other than the play off final season, we've been boring to watch under Clement, Mac 2 and Pearson's dreadful spell. I like Rowetts football, I also think that counter attacking football is the best style with the players we have right now. 

We played some bloody good football in 2014-15 too, until injuries hit the spine of the team.

[Alph]

Even though I voted yes, I'm not a fan of anything he's done on the pitch or in the transfer market I would much rather our performances are the level of the Cardiff game and up than Rowett is sacked.

Sometimes, even in the Fulham games, we move the ball like there's a plan. It's not the chaotic kick sprint towards the goal. We attack at speed but there's structure. You see neat exchanges, overlaps and if we get closed out then we still hold onto the ball. Then we play through the defence and midfield trying to bring out some of the flair in the team. This is where i miss Russell and scratch my head at Weimann. This is exciting. But it's rare and patchy. 

If it was more common i would be on board.

I rate Rowett for his defensive organisation. But I hate it when we are so reckless with our ball time that we end up defending deep and then it's chaotic solo sprint attacks as the rest of the team watch on through binoculars. 

And that's more common. 

"You have the ball, come sit in our box and we'll send Weimann and Lawrence on a raid if we snatch it off you". It's like we surrender ball and territory so easily.

Yet we saw in patches against Fulham that we can look after the ball better. We can use all the pitch and play through the thirds. We don't just look for the "in behind" and we don't surrender the ball at the first press. 

But Yeah, it's not common enough to say that it's Rowett's style. It's more common for us to concede the lot.

I mean we lost to Fulham and I thought there were positives. Yet go back to Preston away, a game we won, and oh my did we just beg them to come and pass the ball in our area. We couldn't wait to give them their next attack. They should have done better and I can say that about too many of our games. 

I want to believe Rowett wants it to be more like the patches v Fulham and Cardiff. But not yet.