TuffLuff Posted October 2, 2017 Author Share Posted October 2, 2017 26 minutes ago, Ninos said: He could lose a leg and the pig headedness of some want him starting regardless if he doesn't know how to score a goal anymore. If GR starts Nugent and Vydra, Forest will get skewered. No to starting. A decent bench option in selective matches, we must keep his value at a sellable level for a ££ January exit. All is well. Oh ninos buddy, there’s no pigheadedness...just a debate on whether it might be time to bring him back in. Look at Rowetts comments from the weekend, he’s obviously a fan. No one is suggesting that he should walk back in after Saturday, it’s just the consensus that we looked a better side after he came on. It’s not just about him scoring a goal, it’s about whether we are a more effective team. Do we conceade less? Do the likes of Lawrence become get into better positions? I’m not saying it’s s defknite yes but after 10 games we can at least talk about it. It’s also worth debating the effectiveness of Vydra and Nugent, they have looked great at times but have they really made the positions their own? I’d argue they haven’t, especially if we expect a local derby where neither team are outstanding to be a tight affair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Out of the striking options I think Nuge is the most adaptable. I think Vyds and Chrissy fit a certain position and style of play and won't necessarily prosper outside of said systems. I do think that Nugent and Martin might form a pretty lethal partnership if given time but with Winnall in the mix and looking hungry too and Matej finding his scoring boots, it's almost as if we have too many options now, not a problem we had last year! Hopefully the competition for starting places will be healthy and inspire players rather than forcing them into their shells. If so,we could still have an interesting season ahead should Rowett bolster the midfield in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth's left foot Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 4 hours ago, Fraser_23 said: Have always wanted to see a martin and vydra partnership! Only 2 players short of seeing that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 4 hours ago, Moist One said: 18months since he last scored in open play for Derby. Vydra is on a hot goal scoring run currently and he has only got one this season from open play! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 29 minutes ago, Ninos said: I like his diving. He's great at diving I'll grant you that. In a team looking for small margins late on, it's helpful. He also does nice flicks and stuff don't forget that (flick to Nuge). You can always find good qualities in every individual - true in life. But if when he badly passes the ball to Cardiff as we were about to counter (he had nicely won the ball), and they get a dangerous chance - if they score on that and it was a scary moment, he'd have been in the doghouse in a bigger way than Vydra ever was at Brentford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninos Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 24 minutes ago, 86 points said: Out of the striking options I think Nuge is the most adaptable. I think Vyds and Chrissy fit a certain position and style of play and won't necessarily prosper outside of said systems. I do think that Nugent and Martin might form a pretty lethal partnership if given time but with Winnall in the mix and looking hungry too and Matej finding his scoring boots, it's almost as if we have too many options now, not a problem we had last year! Hopefully the competition for starting places will be healthy and inspire players rather than forcing them into their shells. If so,we could still have an interesting season ahead should Rowett bolster the midfield in January. Good post ... by your standards, Joker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Something I don't think anybody has really mentioned is that against Cardiff and in recent sub appearances Martin was very much deployed as a #10. He had freedom to come look for the ball, drift into pockets spaces both deeper and in wider channels. He was very much the 'hook' to transition us into attack and this was more evident when Nugent came on. Too be honest deploying in a more withdrawn role makes perfect sense for how Rowett wants to set us up. If we are going to sit deep, draw teams onto us and then look to break quickly then you need a reliable way to transition into the final third. Linking play up is always what Martin has excelled at, utilising him in this fashion plays into his strengths. He's a bit wasted playing as the number 9 in this playstyle because you need someone mobile, someone who will play right up with the back 4 line and look to run in behind or into the channels to expose the space. But play him as a #10 and he can be the creative outlet we've been lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 7 hours ago, TuffLuff said: We do have very good strikers, but part of me fears towards how good the combinations we have seen so far can be (if that makes sense). For example, I’m not too set alight with the idea of Vydra and Nugent. It’s good in an open game but both are ineffective in a tight, nervy affair. Winnall has looked good from the bench but not really done the business from a start point. It’s difficult, but I do think Martin has to be a lynchpin to it all somewhere in the starting attack Our recent goal scoring form does not suggest that we have very good strikers. Good on paper maybe, but that doesn't win games unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBee Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 4 hours ago, Ninos said: You can always find good qualities in every individual - true in life. Some of us might be able to think of an exception , and this bloke ain't a footballer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, europia said: Our recent goal scoring form does not suggest that we have very good strikers. Good on paper maybe, but that doesn't win games unfortunately. The problem recently hasn't been strikers though. Its been creativity, transitioning to attack and keeping the ball in attacking positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve How Hard? Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, europia said: Our recent goal scoring form does not suggest that we have very good strikers. Good on paper maybe, but that doesn't win games unfortunately. I think that points more towards the tactics we're deploying than the strikers themselves. There is definitely goals in them strikers if we play to their strengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 13 minutes ago, brady1993 said: The problem recently hasn't been strikers though. Its been creativity, transitioning to attack and keeping the ball in attacking positions. It's a either case of midfield not creating, defenders not concentrating, strikers scoring etc etc. Until you get all departments upping their game you can forget promotion or anything like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Just now, europia said: It's a either case of midfield not creating, defenders not concentrating, strikers scoring etc etc. Until you get all departments upping their game you can forget promotion or anything like it. Honestly the problem is the same problem we've had all season, until the midfield is sorted we will be inconsistent at best. Ledley has certainly improved it with intelligent positioining and reliabilty in possesion and Martin seemingly gave us that link to attack but we need a mobile defensive midfielder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 59 minutes ago, brady1993 said: Something I don't think anybody has really mentioned is that against Cardiff and in recent sub appearances Martin was very much deployed as a #10. He had freedom to come look for the ball, drift into pockets spaces both deeper and in wider channels. He was very much the 'hook' to transition us into attack and this was more evident when Nugent came on. Too be honest deploying in a more withdrawn role makes perfect sense for how Rowett wants to set us up. If we are going to sit deep, draw teams onto us and then look to break quickly then you need a reliable way to transition into the final third. Linking play up is always what Martin has excelled at, utilising him in this fashion plays into his strengths. He's a bit wasted playing as the number 9 in this playstyle because you need someone mobile, someone who will play right up with the back 4 line and look to run in behind or into the channels to expose the space. But play him as a #10 and he can be the creative outlet we've been lacking. 'I am most encouraged by this performance, thought Martin was the talisman and if he can re-invent himself in that slightly deeper role he can play a pivotal part in our season, certainly away from home. (I said that after the Barnsley match too!) ' I have said this a couple of times, most recently in the Cardiff matchday thread, but didn’t express it as eloquently as you - totally agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, angieram said: 'I am most encouraged by this performance, thought Martin was the talisman and if he can re-invent himself in that slightly deeper role he can play a pivotal part in our season, certainly away from home. (I said that after the Barnsley match too!) ' I have said this a couple of times, most recently in the Cardiff matchday thread, but didn’t express it as eloquently as you - totally agree with you. I apologise, I must have missed you saying it. Your spot on though. Here's the funny thing though, he's always been a #10 really. Think about it. At Norwich his most successful spell was playing off Grant Holt as the deeper lying of the two. Clough bought him to play as a two with Russell who is far more likely to look to get in behind. When played as a lone striker by Mac the onus was on him to drop into that #10 space so that midfielders and inside forwards could burst past him. Its actually when he's been deployed as a traditional number #9 that's he's struggled. It's why he was he struggled under Clement, Pearson and it's why he looked a bit lost in the first two games this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 I think you'll find that Ramage told Rowett in no uncertain terms that Martin CANNOT play as a number 10. I can't believe Rowett would just ignore the views of The Oracle himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, Saul Pimpson said: I think you'll find that Ramage told Rowett in no uncertain terms that Martin CANNOT play as a number 10. I can't believe Rowett would just ignore the views of The Oracle himself. Well it isn't the first time Ramage has been wrong and I doubt it will be the last either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 32 minutes ago, Saul Pimpson said: I think you'll find that Ramage told Rowett in no uncertain terms that Martin CANNOT play as a number 10. I can't believe Rowett would just ignore the views of The Oracle himself. Yes, I really do find it remarkable that Ramage’s insight and technical acumen has not been exploited at the Bernabeu. Surely only a matter of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Anag Ram said: Yes, I really do find it remarkable that Ramage’s insight and technical acumen has not been exploited at the Bernabeu. Surely only a matter of time. He's a bloody dinosaur,ramage....lives in the 1970's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 4 hours ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: He's a bloody dinosaur,ramage....lives in the 1970's! What - he's got a house in Ripley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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