GR - stick or twist

[Sexydadbod]

I think we should sack him and get in a fancy new manager like Zola who will help expand the Derby County brand in remote places such as Fiji and North Korea.

I'm not fussed about winning, just as long as we have more possession because at least we can take a moral victory away from every game.

[Rich84]

47 minutes ago, Tombo said:

They had 2 shots on target yesterday

That doesn't tell the full story though, they had several threatening attacks they should have done better with and a couple of crosses flash through our area which I was amazed no-one got a touch too. First half we did ride our luck coupled with some organised defending and an incredible save from Carson which doesn't seem to be mentioned much.

But, you have to take enough of your chances..... Weimann and Lawrence arguably should have done better with the chances they had which their keeper saved, so it balances out.

[richinspain]

King Arthur always said that a team had to first of all win the right to play their way. Win the personal battles and then let the individual class come out on top. His teams were first of all hard working, hard to grind down. However, when they had won that right to play there was individual brilliance to be able to get a win. A good example would be Lincoln at home in 1985. We won 7-0 and at 44 minutes it was I believe 0-0. At 47 minutes it was 3-0 and from then on an incredible display of attacking football. GR seems to be to have the same mentality. Let the opposition try any way to score but without success and then turn the screw on them. Most teams to me have looked totally demoralised at the end of the game (Reading excepted ) since we started playing this new way, ie since Bristol away.

[RamNut]

I wouldn't get too excited about the benefits of giving the ball away.

[nottingram]

52 minutes ago, Rich84 said:

That doesn't tell the full story though, they had several threatening attacks they should have done better with and a couple of crosses flash through our area which I was amazed no-one got a touch too. First half we did ride our luck coupled with some organised defending and an incredible save from Carson which doesn't seem to be mentioned much.

But, you have to take enough of your chances..... Weimann and Lawrence arguably should have done better with the chances they had which their keeper saved, so it balances out.

Fulham had loads of crosses flash across the box as well, I saw people say ‘well if Fulham had a top striker they’d have beaten us there.’ Well at this level, strikers don’t come much better than Assombalonga and yet, again crosses flashed across the box. Maybe our centre backs are just being taught to do their jobs properly and actually mark players?

[BondJovi]

1 hour ago, Ellafella said:

Absolutely. I've been thinking exactly this. We seem to be "lucky" but so frequently that it cannot be luck.

(1) We seem to be getting lots of penalties

(2) Teams don't convert chances against us: Boro had 3 very scorable one yesterday - brilliant save by Carson and the other 2 just plain misses. 

(3) Refs have not given opposition penalties : Red dogs, Sheffield Wed & Leeds all could have had them. 

Coincidence? Or is GR a lucky manager? Do you make your own luck? 

1.We have players who run at defenders in the box because there is more space to run in to. All comes from playing on the break, defences aren't settled against us.

2. From what I saw, probably 2 clear chances, the Carson save was more a half chance. I believe they had 2 shots on target to our 8. We had just as clear ones we didn't take. It is unrealistic to not expect us to give away some chances. Part luck, part well organised.

3. All balances out in the end, pretty sure there are things we haven't been given.

The harder you work,the luckier you get? That kind of thing. 

[needles]

4 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Don’t know what it is about Rowett’s teams, but they just seem to get results from unexpected places.

A number of our recent wins could have been so different had the opposition scored their easy chances.

It’s as if under Rowett we have a knack of getting lucky and then being clinical when our chance comes.

Unbelievable how weve managed to get wins at Leeds, Norwich and Boro considering the glut in clear chances theyve had against us.

Maybe...but we've had chances too add to the score in all those games so it hasn't gone entirely one way. Of course scoring early can change the course of games, but we went behind at Leeds and Fulham and came back to get something.

Boro had the Carson worldy, a couple of goalmouth scrambles from corners...our good defending has to be credited...and the Fabio header. We had a beautifully constructed goal, a peno and a gift, plus the Lawrence 1 on 1 late on. Pretty comprehensive in the end.

[Bris Vegas]

8 hours ago, Tombo said:

They had 2 shots on target yesterday

I understand goalkeepers are there to make saves so the excellent Carson stop isn't exactly a sign of luck. But Fabio putting a free header over from five yards out is, as was that awful Leeds miss from about six yards out too.

I just don't know what it is. We seem to have been given numerous penalties this season, practically score with our first attempt on goal be it a tap-in or an excellent finish like Nugent's goal at Norwich.

And our opposition seem to make numerous mistakes too, like Wednesday's defender barging Vydra over and getting sent off after five minutes. 

It's happening all too frequent. Maybe it's not luck and it's all by design. I don't know. Under Billy Davies it was pretty similar.

[Bris Vegas]

3 minutes ago, DC-1975 said:

The dynamic of the game would change if they score one of those chances though. They may not get another. Norwich were on top when they scored against us, but then the game changed and we scored again. 

I didn't see you mention the fact Kompany could have been sent off or Leicester hitting the post at 1-1 against City, just how good City are (which they are).

Why the constant need to find a negative?

It's not a negative. It's just an observation of how we are under Rowett, and similarly how Birmingham were too. 

It's interesting to see how we fared against Birmingham. We battered them 4-0 under McClaren, somehow threw away a 2-0 lead in injury time when they were awful all game and lost 0-3 at home under Clement.

Transfer that to Derby and you have a 3-0 win at Boro, a 4-1 defeat at Bristol City where we just got battered and a draw at Brentford where the goal aside we offered absoloutely nothing.

Moments change games. It just seems all the 'moments' are falling in our favour right now.

[Bris Vegas]

5 minutes ago, DC-1975 said:

Isn't that the case for most teams at the top end of the league though?

As for the Bristol City game, I'm sure most Championship teams have off days, Newcastle and Brighton both lost a few last year and didn't Huddersfield suffer a few hidings?

Most of the penalties have been stonewall.

Newcastle and Brighton dominated most games last season.

I just liken our current form to that of the Billy Davies side. The key difference being during that season a lot of our winners came from set-pieces, whereas this season we are scoring well-worked clinical goals.

Every good team needs the rub of the green though.

 

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

Reading got to the playoff final and they conceded 7 to Norwich at one piont.

[RIMBAUD]

1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said:

Newcastle and Brighton dominated most games last season.

I just liken our current form to that of the Billy Davies side. The key difference being during that season a lot of our winners came from set-pieces, whereas this season we are scoring well-worked clinical goals.

Every good team needs the rub of the green though.

 

We scored some decent goals that season. I can think of a couple by Oakley and Barnes. Lupoli. Bisgaard.

Are you sure a lot of the winners were set pieces?  I remember the Dave Jones free kick v Wendies.

I think it’s become a bit trendy to slag of that season/team because of the following season but it wasn’t all rubbish football.

(Not having a pop at you, Bris as I agree with much of what you’ve posted over the last few posts.)

[RiddingsRam]

11 hours ago, McLovin said:

I think we should sack him and get in a fancy new manager like Zola who will help expand the Derby County brand in remote places such as Fiji and North Korea.

I'm not fussed about winning, just as long as we have more possession because at least we can take a moral victory away from every game.

@McLovin you sarcastic barstard you !

[PistoldPete2]

23 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

It's not a negative. It's just an observation of how we are under Rowett, and similarly how Birmingham were too. 

It's interesting to see how we fared against Birmingham. We battered them 4-0 under McClaren, somehow threw away a 2-0 lead in injury time when they were awful all game and lost 0-3 at home under Clement.

Transfer that to Derby and you have a 3-0 win at Boro, a 4-1 defeat at Bristol City where we just got battered and a draw at Brentford where the goal aside we offered absoloutely nothing.

Moments change games. It just seems all the 'moments' are falling in our favour right now.

we got battered at bristol but that was earlier in the season..we were well beaten by Reading, although injuries to Ledley and Keogh and poor selection by Rowett contributed to that . Apart from that we are unbeaten in what 11  games and that isnt a fluke.

Inconsistent teams can get promoted too. Look at Hull.  Lost 8-3 on aggregate in four games against us but stil got promoted.

Burnley also got promoted (twice) despite never really dominating their opponents.  

[Van der MoodHoover]

On 25/11/2017 at 20:03, Cool As Custard said:

For the first time in many years we seem to be building a strong & sustainable side in the mould of the Arthur Cox & Bald Eagle promotion teams.

Long may it continue - in GR we trust!!

Strong - fair enough. 

Sustainable - not so sure about that. A lot of relatively elderly signings who are more likely to decline than improve. 

A couple more years and the Rams first team will come doddering out to afternoon tea dance music 

[Duracell]

People keep mentioning the Bristol match, forgetting that came before Ledley signed.

He's helped turn us around. I'm not convinced he's anything other than very competent, or that we couldn't get similar or better on cheaper wages, but he's still a significant factor. A shrewd move to sign him in the circumstances.

It's not so much the impact Ledley makes when he's in the side so much as what we lack when he isn't. We need someone, anyone, to play alongside Huddlestone who isn't Johnson. And vice versa. Those two together is just asking for trouble.

There was poor management at the club (not just Rowett) to leave us in a position on September 1st with just Johnson, Huddlestone and Hanson left in the squad to protect our back four. Even with Ledley in the side, there's a lot of space between them and a very attacking-minded number 10 who's really more of a secondary striker, and we're still short of a mobile CM.

It's an issue we fashioned for ourselves this summer. We didn't need to sell any of our CMs or loan out Bryson. It was a choice we made. It could have been fine if we'd signed players to replace them, but for one reason or another, that didn't happen.

I think Rowett's done a very good job with the tools he's had since the transfer window shut, and results have been far better than I'd imagined, so I'll give the manager a huge amount of credit for that. I still think we've made this season more difficult for ourselves than it needs to be, though.

 

[i-Ram]

13 hours ago, Duracell said:

People keep mentioning the Bristol match, forgetting that came before Ledley signed.

He's helped turn us around. I'm not convinced he's anything other than very competent, or that we couldn't get similar or better on cheaper wages, but he's still a significant factor. A shrewd move to sign him in the circumstances.

It's not so much the impact Ledley makes when he's in the side so much as what we lack when he isn't. We need someone, anyone, to play alongside Huddlestone who isn't Johnson. And vice versa. Those two together is just asking for trouble.

There was poor management at the club (not just Rowett) to leave us in a position on September 1st with just Johnson, Huddlestone and Hanson left in the squad to protect our back four. Even with Ledley in the side, there's a lot of space between them and a very attacking-minded number 10 who's really more of a secondary striker, and we're still short of a mobile CM.

It's an issue we fashioned for ourselves this summer. We didn't need to sell any of our CMs or loan out Bryson. It was a choice we made. It could have been fine if we'd signed players to replace them, but for one reason or another, that didn't happen.

I think Rowett's done a very good job with the tools he's had since the transfer window shut, and results have been far better than I'd imagined, so I'll give the manager a huge amount of credit for that. I still think we've made this season more difficult for ourselves than it needs to be, though.

I think your points are fair, although l am unsure what your evidence is for the fact that “we didn’t need to sell any of our CMs or loan out Bryson”.

Rowett might have been challenged with getting cash in / the wage bill down to comply with FFP requirements, or Mel’s desire perhaps to simply have some money coming back the other way.  Unless you know more about the club’s finances/ budget than you are letting on l don’t believe you can argue that point strongly.  Anecdotally l think cash must have been tight given the last minute dealing of Deadline day - the Winnal for Butterfield swap, and the removal of Bryson from the payroll before he could progress matters with Brum for Davis or Kief.  

For what worth l think Rowett liked Bryson, but he couldn’t fit him into the structure he wanted to play/is playing.  Bryson has a lot of good qualities, but he isn’t a no. 10 in the Vydra sense nor has he ever proven himself disciplined enough to play a holding role in a central midfield 2.  As for Hughes l think it was time for him to go, whoever was Manager. His career was stagnating, and he hadn’t really performed to any consistent standard under Mac2.  A lot is made of Rowett selling the Crown Jewels, but again none of us really know whether there was a cash need to fund some of the acquisitions Rowett wanted, nor whether Hughesy himself or his agent was pushing for the move to the bright lights.

[RamNut]

Selling hughes was mental but we don't really have orthodox midfielders anymore.

The two defensive midfielders sit deep and barely cross the half way line.

The three attacking midfielders are basically all strikers who are required to drop back and then run very fast as soon as we get the ball.

The central attacking no10 is more of an out and out threat, and the two wide attackers are less of a luxury than under the 433 system.

the number of defensive midfielders is doubled; the full backs don't attack as much and get better protection. 

result. We give up the midfield, sit deep to defend and then rely on a quarter back to launch missiles for whippets to chase.

it is working in terms of results but its not always great to watch.

as for FFP  the above assumptions from i-Ram  look reasonable,  but MM and the accounts bloke expressly denied it at the Silk Mill fans forum.

[Cool As Custard]

20 hours ago, HantsRam said:

Strong - fair enough. 

Sustainable - not so sure about that. A lot of relatively elderly signings who are more likely to decline than improve. 

A couple more years and the Rams first team will come doddering out to afternoon tea dance music 

From those players currently featuring in our first team squad only 5 are 31 or older

Nugent 32

Keogh 31

Davies 32

Baird  35

Carson 32

Everyone else is 30 or under & should all have at least another couple of seasons in them. In the current world of football 2 seasons is a lifetime - it’s all about the here & now. No point planning for the future when you are only ever 6-8 bad results from the sack. It’s hardly a major overhaul needed & experience is currently a major part of our current successful run.

(And don’t mention Shackell 34 or Bent 33 - doubtful either will ever pull on a Rams shirt again)

[Van der MoodHoover]

42 minutes ago, Cool As Custard said:

From those players currently featuring in our first team squad only 5 are 31 or older

Nugent 32

Keogh 31

Davies 32

Baird  35

Carson 32

Everyone else is 30 or under & should all have at least another couple of seasons in them. In the current world of football 2 seasons is a lifetime - it’s all about the here & now. No point planning for the future when you are only ever 6-8 bad results from the sack. It’s hardly a major overhaul needed & experience is currently a major part of our current successful run.

(And don’t mention Shackell 34 or Bent 33 - doubtful either will ever pull on a Rams shirt again)

Ledley and huddlestone? 

Pretty much the spine of the team. 

So you're saying that not worth worrying about the sustainable bit. Don't look more than 1-2 seasons out?