Mistaram Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 On 26/11/2017 at 09:42, Ellafella said: Absolutely. I've been thinking exactly this. We seem to be "lucky" but so frequently that it cannot be luck. (1) We seem to be getting lots of penalties (2) Teams don't convert chances against us: Boro had 3 very scorable one yesterday - brilliant save by Carson and the other 2 just plain misses. (3) Refs have not given opposition penalties : Red dogs, Sheffield Wed & Leeds all could have had them. Coincidence? Or is GR a lucky manager? Do you make your own luck? Coincidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearson Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 7 hours ago, RamNut said: Selling hughes was mental but we don't really have orthodox midfielders anymore. The two defensive midfielders sit deep and barely cross the half way line. The three attacking midfielders are basically all strikers who are required to drop back and then run very fast as soon as we get the ball. The central attacking no10 is more of an out and out threat, and the two wide attackers are less of a luxury than under the 433 system. the number of defensive midfielders is doubled; the full backs don't attack as much and get better protection. result. We give up the midfield, sit deep to defend and then rely on a quarter back to launch missiles for whippets to chase. it is working in terms of results but its not always great to watch. as for FFP the above assumptions from i-Ram look reasonable, but MM and the accounts bloke expressly denied it at the Silk Mill fans forum. So I deduce it had been great to watch for the past 4-5 years which got us exactly where? We needed a fresh approach, a good clean out, hopefully more in January, and a manager who knows what is required to get us out of this league. The import elements are there with a solid base which, barring the odd exception, will ensure we are always in the game, and sprinkled with a few flair players who are capable of getting a goal or two. I just get the feeling that a small element of support that didn't want Rowett on board are using our strong defensive set up as tool to unfairly criticise him. We have lost 1 in 11, looking at the least Wembley bound and some are still not happy. You do wonder what wouldmake them happy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, Pearson said: So I deduce it had been great to watch for the past 4-5 years which got us exactly where? We needed a fresh approach, a good clean out, hopefully more in January, and a manager who knows what is required to get us out of this league. The import elements are there with a solid base which, barring the odd exception, will ensure we are always in the game, and sprinkled with a few flair players who are capable of getting a goal or two. I just get the feeling that a small element of support that didn't want Rowett on board are using our strong defensive set up as tool to unfairly criticise him. We have lost 1 in 11, looking at the least Wembley bound and some are still not happy. You do wonder what wouldmake them happy! Looking Wembley bound? We are 6th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearson Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, Mistaram said: Coincidence In all the games that i Have played, Football, Golf, Snooker, pool the more I practiced and the more positive my approach was/is the more luck I seemed to have. Is it a coincidence that the teams at the bottom of the league are always crying about their bad luck. I'm of the firm belief its their approach that is letting them down. A positive attitude works wonders in all walks of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cool As Custard Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 35 minutes ago, HantsRam said: Ledley and huddlestone? Pretty much the spine of the team. So you're saying that not worth worrying about the sustainable bit. Don't look more than 1-2 seasons out? Both 30 - good for at least another couple of years, especially as neither rely on pace to do their job! I don’t think any club can look more than a couple of seasons ahead these days - how many managers last more than 2 seasons in a job? Very few. Have a youth system by all means but how many players have actually made it through to play more than 40 league games for us out of all those who have gone through the academy in the last 7 years? Very few Unfortunately football these days is all about the here & now. I’m not saying it’s right but in this age of instant gratification it’s just the way it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 7 hours ago, RamNut said: as for FFP the above assumptions from i-Ram look reasonable, but MM and the accounts bloke expressly denied it at the Silk Mill fans forum. If you go back to 15/16 (and I'm ultra careful what I write about this now),the club told us that the FFP 'loss' was £9m,£4m below the average for a 3 year cycle (£39m/3),but without the exceptional income of £12m arising from the cancellation of external debt,the underlying position would have been £21m,£8m over the average. Even if the sharp rise of c£7m in admin expenses for 15/16 were to completely fall out (pretty unlikely I would have thought,but there again I don't know what it entailed),it would still leave an underlying position of £1m over average. It's important to realise that the 15/16 activity didn't just impact that year,as wages/amortisation feed through into future years (the 15/16 wage bill rocketed,but because of the way amortisation is now calculated,this wouldn't be anything like as big a problem. What I'm therefore saying is that if the admin rise disappeared wholly in 16/17,then in that year (all other things being roughly equal),we would not only have had to trade equally in terms of FFP,but also have to recoup(at least) another £1m to get down to the £13m average.Thus,the sale of Hendrick and the loan fee for Martin came as no surprise to me,as did Pearson's comment (not long before he got the boot),that any future incomings would have to be balanced by outgoings because of FFP As his earlier net activity would have been positive in FFP terms,then his later comment must surely mean that we had work to do at the outset of that season. Fast forward to this season,and it would seem to me that we would have had to at least trade equally.It's impossible for me to say if the whole of the Hughes/Ince fees were needed in this regard (because we might again have needed to trade at a surplus,again because of any admin expenses increase that may have carried through both 16/17 and 17/18). What exactly did MM and SP say at that forum,because my recollection was that SP said MM was funding us to the very limits that FFP allowed. The opportunities for exceptional income due to loan cancellations appear limited,as the external debt (as at 30/6/16) was only £3m,something which I expect to be the last piece of an enigmatic jigsaw from 14/15.Tbh,I'd be absolutely amazed if that loan were to be written off by the Co-Op Bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 From memory..... When asked if we were "sailing close to the wind" with regards to FFP they categorically denied it, and said they were comfortable with our position. They seemed puzzled by the question. They also said that we hadn't sold to teams that we had previously bought from e.g. Watford and middlesbro in order to wipe out any monies owed, and that it was pure coincidence that we were dealing with the same clubs again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 12 hours ago, Pearson said: We have lost 1 in 11, looking at the least Wembley bound and some are still not happy. You do wonder what wouldmake them happy! Weren’t you slaughtering McClaren and Hughes and calling for your namesake, Clough or Rowett when we were 7th last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rample Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 I've said right through I'd like consistency. No the performances haven't been good enough for the most part but the results are acceptable and for that reason I'm happy to continue for a year from now. After 2 more windows and enough of next season to find a rhythm it will be fairer to judge. Where I will change my mind is only if we dramatically fall away this season racking up a run of defeats where we look unable to reverse things, but more likely it will be a few years down the line if we are stagnating and I dont believe he's the man to take us forward. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 On 11/28/2017 at 09:44, RamNut said: From memory..... When asked if we were "sailing close to the wind" with regards to FFP they categorically denied it, and said they were comfortable with our position. They seemed puzzled by the question. They also said that we hadn't sold to teams that we had previously bought from e.g. Watford and middlesbro in order to wipe out any monies owed, and that it was pure coincidence that we were dealing with the same clubs again. If Mel is funding us right up to the limits that FFP allow (per Stephen Pearce),then that kind of implies we must be close to such limits.I think 'sailing close to the wind' is a bit strong though,as it suggests dangerous,bordering on reckless.If you plan something (and no doubt leave room for contingencies), I think it's a bit different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearson Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 On 11/28/2017 at 10:19, cannable said: Weren’t you slaughtering McClaren and Hughes and calling for your namesake, Clough or Rowett when we were 7th last year? Correct, as we were going nowhere. Not the case now is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Pearson said: Correct, as we were going nowhere. Not the case now is it? Perhaps you just couldn’t see where we were going... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kernow Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Mel Morris has said he's "thrilled" with how the season is going so far. He also said "Gary Rowett inherited a squad with lots of different regimes, which is always a challenge in my mind." For me, that's the main reason why I've been so pleased with GR this season. He had an absolute mess of a squad. Full of talented players with a huge variety in playing styles. The fact he's managed to find a coherent way of playing that nearly almost everybody is buying into and playing well in is impressive imo. Our style isn't everybody's cup of tea and it hasn't always been effective in every game, but to be where we are right now after the state we found ourselves in at the end of the season is a real testament to the hard work put in by GR, the rest of the coaching staff, and the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, Kernow said: Mel Morris has said he's "thrilled" with how the season is going so far. He also said "Gary Rowett inherited a squad with lots of different regimes, which is always a challenge in my mind." For me, that's the main reason why I've been so pleased with GR this season. He had an absolute mess of a squad. Full of talented players with a huge variety in playing styles. The fact he's managed to find a coherent way of playing that nearly almost everybody is buying into and playing well in is impressive imo. Our style isn't everybody's cup of tea and it hasn't always been effective in every game, but to be where we are right now after the state we found ourselves in at the end of the season is a real testament to the hard work put in by GR, the rest of the coaching staff, and the players. What a load of rubbish...an absolute mess? anyone would think we were bottom six last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kernow Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 8 minutes ago, RamNut said: What a load of rubbish...an absolute mess? anyone would think we were bottom six last season. You can disagree with my post, that's fine. You calling it "a load of rubbish" isn't going to change my opinion though. We were going into the summer with our 6th managerial appointment, including Wassall, since Clough left in 2013. We had a squad composed of different players with different styles. The squad needed an overall because in terms of balance, it was a mess. Just because we weren't bottom six doesn't mean it wasn't. GR wanted to clear out but due to expensive players on high wages, that was easier said than done. Instead he's had to tweak it but also find a way of getting all these to fit into a certain style. He's doing that so far. There's a long way to go and time will tell if we can keep this up but in previous years we've imploded, mainly due to the amount of change going on within the club. The general consensus was this was to be a rebuild season. Not many were posting that a top six finish was a minimum expectation. We're performing above most expectations, including MM's if he's so "thrilled." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 49 minutes ago, RamNut said: What a load of rubbish...an absolute mess? anyone would think we were bottom six last season. It's all relative ? In terms of being a club whose expectations/ targets were to not be in the bottom 6 then you are spot on,we were not a mess ,can't argue with that ,,,,,,,,, BUT ,, for a club whose investment,expectations/ targets were promotion top six min and had come so close then yes we had become a total mess and we're getting more messy with every transfer window and new manager , in terms of results for the number of talented players at the club we were a mess , in terms of consistency and direction we were a mess ,, rowett has brought clarity ,stability and a refreshing honesty that it's very clear the players are buying into , so in an off the cuff way your what a load of rubbish post is correct but it is just that ,an off the cuff remark/ observation that has very little value in real terms as the yardstick you are using to allow you to make it is ( purposely?) not fitting to the club at this time . its clear for whatever reason rowett is not for you ,, that's fair enough but let's have it like it is , some will just not allow rowett any credit no matter what Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 11 hours ago, archied said: It's all relative ? In terms of being a club whose expectations/ targets were to not be in the bottom 6 then you are spot on,we were not a mess ,can't argue with that ,,,,,,,,, BUT ,, for a club whose investment,expectations/ targets were promotion top six min and had come so close then yes we had become a total mess and we're getting more messy with every transfer window and new manager , in terms of results for the number of talented players at the club we were a mess , in terms of consistency and direction we were a mess ,, rowett has brought clarity ,stability and a refreshing honesty that it's very clear the players are buying into , so in an off the cuff way your what a load of rubbish post is correct but it is just that ,an off the cuff remark/ observation that has very little value in real terms as the yardstick you are using to allow you to make it is ( purposely?) not fitting to the club at this time . its clear for whatever reason rowett is not for you ,, that's fair enough but let's have it like it is , some will just not allow rowett any credit no matter what I didn't make any comment re GR. just lets not exaggerate the situation he inherited. BD inherited a mess. NC inherited a mess. Gary didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 14 minutes ago, RamNut said: I didn't make any comment re GR. just lets not exaggerate the situation he inherited. BD inherited a mess. NC inherited a mess. Gary didn't. So no credit due to rowett then? He's doing the least expected of him at this point ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 1 hour ago, archied said: So no credit due to rowett then? He's doing the least expected of him at this point ? Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 50 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Yep. Interesting given that Mac 2 after getting a new broom effect was struggling to get results or get us in top 6 and that's with Hughes ,ince ,Bryson (best players gone now) at the club and replaced by inferior journey men ,,, ummmm ,, vydra was not even near the first team and seen as a massive loss of 8 mill that couldn't be given away ,I could go on but what's the point ,, anybody could do the job rowett is doing now ,if it was Mac at the helm getting the results and climbing the table as rowett is doing there's a section that would be salivating and proclaiming him the messiah but cause it's rowett it's the bare minimum easy peasey stuff anybody would be producing , same stuff that players like keough and Russell face no matter how well they do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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