Derby County v Wolverhampton Wanderers - match day thread

[Ramleicester]

Why do people think Thorne will come back and solve anything. Injury prone player who will never be the same as when he arrived. This team is 5 players short of being top 6. Every other side that were the Rams peers and equals three years ago have moved on and improved. We have gone backwards and wasted millions on sacking managers rather than improving the playing staff. What a joke.

[TroyDyer]

The problem with derby is deep. Unfortunately we think we are more significant than we are, so rowett won't get the time. 

Same as Clement (now a PL manager). If Rowett rocks the boat he'll be gone. If he doesn't, we'll be 8th.

[Curtains]

17 minutes ago, Alpha said:

I wasn't either.

Amazing passer. Truly awesome to watch at times.

But that's it. Nothing else. Easy to bypass, give him time and so long as you have your flanks covered then he's trapped in and relatively harmless. 

Could be great in whatever team Rowett sees himself building I guess. Pretty diagonals to our wingers won't get much joy.

With his passing ability being so good I do question why Johnson and Butterfield are stood next to him. 

Midfield was very worrying today not nearly mobile enough .

I would give Elsnik a go if I was Gary Rowett

For all those saying Bryson is the answer I have my doubts. 

Do you think Wolves are the real deal mate or did we make them look good. 

[jono]

3 hours ago, brady1993 said:

Spot on. The tactics currently are setting us up to fail.

This really surprised me too. We started as a 433 and very negatively. Wrong idea for a home game. I have no probs giving it some time but the basic principle that the front man needs support seems to have been missed entirely. OK so we are light in the wide department so why on earth wasn't Nuge on supporting Martin from the off in the centre ? And if you are saving Nuge for his legs sake then Weiman should have been close to Martin with Bennet out wide (or vice versa) ... This was way too cautious a set up for the first home game of the season.

GR .. Please explain the logic ? 

[RamNut]

We should have gone to 442 to counter their four in midfield and the unattended wing backs.

also to get someone up with CM

i was surprised we never did anything tactically to address it.

 

[Ninos]

1 hour ago, Angry Ram said:

Must say Wolves playing 3 at the back gave us huge problems. Really liked it.

They will be promotion candidates without doubt. 

It's what happens with a tactically astute manager with expensive skilled quality diverse acquisitions rather than trying to breathe new life into local fly by night almost was/has been players. They should finish 1st. 

[Alph]

8 minutes ago, curtains said:

Midfield was very worrying today not nearly mobile enough .

I would give Elsnik a go if I was Gary Rowett

For all those saying Bryson is the answer I have my doubts. 

Do you think Wolves are the real deal mate or did we make them look good. 

Agree.

Think it was a mix. They looked good. 

I just feel we contributed. We trap ourselves. A lot of football is confidence and momentum. 

If you're Wolves and you see that the midfield of Derby are going to hold hands and live in the centre circle then you can send them packing to the back 4. Box 'em in, send 'em back. Box 'em in, send 'em back. Little press and hoof. 

Literally the only threat is getting beat by the Derby front 3. The confidence and momentum opponents gain from that is clearly visible. They press and press and pretty soon we are restricted to 2 or 3 passes and then a hoof. 

You start giving them something to think about, start making them worry what's behind them when they press and they might back off a bit. 

But with that midfield 3 boxed in its only a wonder pass from Huddlestone and then individual magic that can beat you.

I'm not suggesting for one second that I know more than Rowett. I have no idea how to orchestrate the movement of 11 players to deliver the ball and midfielders into the final third. I just think we can all see that Martin isolation and the food and drink hoof ball.

If Rowett wants to be a direct counter attacking side then why play with 3 midfielders? Why take an extra body from the front or the back to stick in an area of the field you will rarely pass through? 

I think he's got the wrong tools for the job he wants. But he's not even close to solving it imo. He persists with that 3. He would perhaps even need a target man who's more Andy Carroll style aggression over the subtle Martin. 

It's not that Wolves won that bothers me. It's that we've seen this boring unimaginative tactic with these players already. It is a road to narrow 1-0 wins and long painful drawn out defeats. 

I'd be happy if we got panned because We're at the bottom of a steep learning curve. 

What did we learn today? About ourselves? Anyone? Anything? Anything new at all?

[RoyMac5]

14 minutes ago, Alpha said:

What did we learn today? About ourselves? Anyone? Anything? Anything new at all?

I was hoping we said that against Sunderland. If we did we weren't listening, if not...help.

[brady1993]

1 hour ago, Alpha said:

I wasn't either.

Amazing passer. Truly awesome to watch at times.

But that's it. Nothing else. Easy to bypass, give him time and so long as you have your flanks covered then he's trapped in and relatively harmless. 

Could be great in whatever team Rowett sees himself building I guess. Pretty diagonals to our wingers won't get much joy.

With his passing ability being so good I do question why Johnson and Butterfield are stood next to him. 

When we signed him I was somewhat on fence because I think it necessitated bringing in a very mobile player to play next to him. We haven't done that and it looks unlikely that we will so we are going to have go with a thoroughly immobile midfield.

[RadioactiveWaste]

1 minute ago, brady1993 said:

When we signed him I was somewhat on fence because I think it necessitated bringing in a very mobile player to play next to him. We haven't done that and it looks unlikely that we will so we are going to have go with a thoroughly immobile midfield.

This.

[Ram in Wolves clothing]

A great day, but I'm not here to crow

I expected to weather a storm in the opening quarter of your first home game and I think you started well and when you played it on the deck you had some good interplay but certain players had a propensity to just lamp it at Martin and it just played into our hands time and time again and it's what led to us being able to get a foothold in the first half and being able to start imposing ourselves. We know from last season's loan Weimann can never be accused of not working hard but he simply offers nothing as a wide forward/winger so this allowed Doherty to get forward and cause problems. 

I memtioned earlier how rancid our midfield have been so to go from that to incisive short and long range passing with a clear objective is so alien to us. Neves pinging balls around was one thing but we seemed to keep isolating your players and bypassing them with simple triangles and this pattern continued through the game, particularly with Doherty and Enobakhare (our 2/26 on the right side) and Doherty really ought to have scored after their sexy one-two in the second half.

Have to give Wisdom credit for a truly world class tackle on Jota when he was clean through and you did have a few opportunities such as Russell early in the second although that did lead from our defender being caught under a high ball. 

i do have to say I have a lot of sympathy with you guys reading the posts about certain players still getting game time despite clearly not being good enough. We've had similar with the likes of Dave Edwards and Danny Batth, we went through 3 managers over the last two years who relentlessly picked these guys where in the case of Edwards he completed six (6) passes in 90 minutes against the mighty Wigan, you then have some Gimp on Sky like Don Goodman saying how integral they are! Anyway, I digress!

on Rowett, he does have a brand of effective but let's say "rustic" football. With Birmingham he used Clayton Donaldson as his focal point and got the absolute best out of players like David Davis etc. Today was a very Gary Rowett Blues performance with Martin as his (not so) vocal point. The trouble is Birmingham had just survived relegation and had lost 8-0 at home to Bournemouth in the new season, their then owner was in prison and they were in massive debt when Rowett took charge. That siege mentality was exactly what was needed for that club at that time. It isn't what's needed at Derby County... I wouldn't be surprised at all to see things get worse for you before they get better unless he adapts to what you guys need. The raw ingredients are there with the right additions/tactics. 

 

Good luck for the season guys  

[PodgeyRam]

That was a tough watch. It was obvious from 20 minutes onwards that we couldn't deal with their system, which they utilised really well. 

Their wing backs stuck to the touchline at every opportunity, meaning that they had so much space when they switched the play. Our back four didn't know what to do.

Take Forsyth for example. One striker would stand between Keogh and Davies and another would stand between Davies and Forsyth. This meant Forsyth couldn't move out wide to cover their wing backs until they actually had the ball, at which point they already had space to run at him.

Russell and Weimann were caught in two minds - do they track back to mark the wing backs, or do they gamble and try to stay close to Martin. In the end they did neither.  

Rowett should've made them go man for man with the wing backs and make one of Johnson/Butterfield step up closer to Martin. But he didn't in the end. 

As for player performances:

Carson - couldn't do much for either of the goals. Made a good save tipping the ball onto the post in the second half. 

Wisdom - Defensively did ok. A bit ponderous going forward. Got caught on the ball/was lacksidaisical in possession at times.

Keogh - so unlucky for the first goal, which was going wide, but he wasn't to know that. One of the only players urging us forward.

Davies - did ok, like Keogh. Should've tested the goalkeeper with his free header early in the second half.

Forsyth - really struggled defensively, but wasan't helped by the lack of support. System left him hung out to dry. Still looks like he's getting back to full fitness after injury.

Huddlestone - good passer of the ball, but the game passed him by defensively. Has shown a worrying lack of agility in the first two games. Wish he'd whip those corners in with pace, instead of just floating them in. 

Butterfield - I'm sorry, but he was dire. His passing was off, he was slow with and without the ball and had a startling lack of attacking intent. 

Johnson - he had some good shots and looked dangerous whenever around the opposition box. However, he was poor defensively. Poor at tracking runners and helping out the likes of Huddlestone and Forsyth.

Russell - had best chance of the match. Made the goalie work, but perhaps should've done better. Anonymous most of the time. Needed to either mark his opposing wing back or push on. Did neither.

Weimann - similar to Russell. Linked up well with Martin at times in first half, but left Forsyth really exposed in both halves. 

Martin - Anonymous. Crowded out when he won the ball up top. Needed someone close to him and low and behold, looked better when Nugent got close to him. Wasn't helped by all the balls lofted in at 6ft+. Needed them to feet or chest height. 

Bryson - showed more postive intent in 20 minutes than Butterfield did all match.

Nugent - worked hard. Looked like he could be a decent foil for Martin given time.

Anya - worked hard, but did nothing other than run the ball out of play.

 

[Warren Hobhead]

I reckon we were poor today. To a man. 

 

Including Huddlestone, who seems to be the only one immune in this thread. The lad plays like he's stuck in treacle. Cost us a goal. 

 

I was never sold on GR, but I won't be hammering him now when it's easy. I expected a transitional season. Looks like it's exactly that. 

 

Big fan of Butters but he was inept again. Bryson just as bad when on. Johnson woeful. I could name the lot. Martin for example was useless. 

 

Am I worried? No. We will be mid table this season. Clearly a rebuilding job for GR. Losing Ince has killed us. 

 

Don't come at me with Hughes. He was garbage last year and can't make Watford's squad. 

 

But yeah, this is transitioning. It might be painful for a while. Hope GR gets the time he requires to rebuild in his image. 

 

Derby til I die. 

[Sexydadbod]

I don't care who you are but if Butterfield, Johnson, Weimann and Russell are your midfielders then you're asking for trouble. If I was Martin, I'd just stand on the edge of the penalty box reading a newspaper because that ball won't be reaching you.

[sunnyhill60]

"Don't come at me with Hughes. He was garbage last year and can't make Watford's squad. "

Ridiculous - the home tie against Leicester and away game at Wolves are just two examples of what he offered. He didn't make the matchday squad for Watford's first game - so what?  He will get his chance.

GR needs to learn quickly. He says he wants players to be braver. the quickest way to do this is not to start Butterfield. Physically he is useless, mentally he is cautious and unambitious which make his undoubted technical skill redundant.

 

[Comrade 86]

6 hours ago, Harrowram said:

I want a manager who will succeed. However Gary Rowett to date gives me no confidence that he will succeed. He needs to bring in key signings this week otherwise he should go.

See this is the kind of utter bollarks that does my swede. Folk suggesting that we should sack manager number whatever the fook it is in the last 24 months and bring in yet another and based on what? Who he signs or doesn't in the next 5 working days! REALLY!!!

I was not mad keen on GR nor before that, the fact that Mac was sacked to be honest, but not even in the weirdest, most unreal parallel universe imaginable would you find me advocating sacking the new gaffer after 2 fookin games. Vydra fit and playing off Martin, George back up and running giving us a second solid CM and thereby relieving pressure on Huddlestone (who has a bloomin target on his back right now it seems), Lawrence in and A.N Other bomber on the flanks and you've got a team that'd give any side in this division problems. But here's the thing snowflakes - it might take more than one window. So sorry!!!!

So, what happens now? Well there are two possibilities; we give GR the time he clearly needs and hope he can build a team, or we admit that we're a bunch of impatient babies and start clamouring for his removal right now while the rest of the football league look at us with a mixture of hilarity and contemptuous disbelief. And we'd deserve nothing less, to be honest.

Pffft.

 

 

[King Kevin]

8 hours ago, Rample said:

Pearson played 9, won 1, drawn 3, lost 5

Rowett's was manager for 9 last year (with a comparable team), won 4, drawn 3, lost 2

Pearson drew the opening game of the season, lost the second 2-0, and then beat Preston in the 3rd game... 

This season Rowett is emulating that so far.

I'll be amazed if we beat Preston.

[Mafiabob]

11 hours ago, RamNut said:

Why would simmo come back to work for someone who sacked him unfairly?

Find it quite strange that he's had regular interviews at the club during his under 20 England job

[Anag Ram]

5 hours ago, 86 points said:

See this is the kind of utter bollarks that does my swede. Folk suggesting that we should sack manager number whatever the fook it is in the last 24 months and bring in yet another and based on what? Who he signs or doesn't in the next 5 working days! REALLY!!!

I was not mad keen on GR nor before that, the fact that Mac was sacked to be honest, but not even in the weirdest, most unreal parallel universe imaginable would you find me advocating sacking the new gaffer after 2 fookin games. Vydra fit and playing off Martin, George back up and running giving us a second solid CM and thereby relieving pressure on Huddlestone (who has a bloomin target on his back right now it seems), Lawrence in and A.N Other bomber on the flanks and you've got a team that'd give any side in this division problems. But here's the thing snowflakes - it might take more than one window. So sorry!!!!

So, what happens now? Well there are two possibilities; we give GR the time he clearly needs and hope he can build a team, or we admit that we're a bunch of impatient babies and start clamouring for his removal right now while the rest of the football league look at us with a mixture of hilarity and contemptuous disbelief. And we'd deserve nothing less, to be honest.

Pffft.

 

 

I would still like to know what causes the apathy amongst the players. These are all guys who have enjoyed success in the past but through a succession of managers we still have a group who could scarcely be described as champing at the bit.

And I'm not just a wrist slasher reacting to yesterday. 

We have talent but are short on desire.

[DRBee]

Slagging off the players and their performances against Wolves misses the point. 

Rowett has had the good fortune to have started his work last season. It's not like he has just arrived. He ought to know by now the skills and weaknesses of the players. His team selection yesterday was  bizarre and shows an inability to learn. He is worse than Clement and Pearson in terms of selecting a team that will get enough players into the opposition box supporting each other. How Bryson can be left on the bench when Butterfield gets a midfield place is beyond me.

Even if a couple of new players are brought in , will Rowett use them to best advantage?