Carnero Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 There has been so much whining about the sale and potential sale of what many of us consider to be our key players. However the facts are that the likes of Hughes, Keogh & Ince have been mainstays in our side for the last 3 years (2 of the last 3 years for Hughes, 2.5 of the last 3 years for Ince). Our finishes in these seasons have been: 2014-15: 8th 2015-16: 5th 2016-17: 9th Meanwhile our new manager, on a budget of NIL at Birmingham achieved the following finishing positions: 2014-15: 10th 2015-16: 10th 2016-17: 7th (to 14th Dec) Gary Rowett has achieved comparable seasons operating with a much less talented Birmingham squad and a budget of NIL. With a bit of financial backing and a bit of supporter backing, Gary Rowett will likely prove to be more successful at Derby than the likes of Hughes, Keogh & Ince have managed to be. We need to back the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennington Ram Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 I like the players, but he needs space and time, and the players may well want to take that opportunity to progress their career. Don't like the accusations of "hoof ball" before we've even started a fixture this season with the new squad either. Bore off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Both Next question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Most of us want to watch sexy football with exciting players. Maybe we will get efficient combative football instead. I'll be happy with that as long as the results are right and we score a decent number of goals. I like just about everything I have seen or heard, of and from, GR. I think the last years financial results and an oversized squad are driving our current activity but GR is working with this for the good of all in the long run. I am backing GR to do what's needed and thinking we might get some pleasant surprises along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 The grass is greener ought to be our new club motto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalsheep02 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Saul, I like a lot of what you post on here but I can't agree on this one. 12 months ago you could have constructed exactly the same argument in support of Nigel Pearson 'he got Leicester City up', 'look at what Ranieri did with Pearson's team' and there were people on here making exactly the same sort of arguments around 'give him time' and probably even some defending the Martin loan. In your analysis of the Rowett at B'rum vs Derby over the same period you have not mentioned that during that period they had one manager and we had five, I am sure that impacted on performances (Burton away last season has even been quoted by Mel Morris. I don't doubt that we should support the club but I also feel that a supporter has the right to challenge appropriately if they feel a change is not for the better - rather than blindly trust that it will all work out well. I feel quite confident that Rowett will have a positive impact but I am not willing to simply offer blind support if I disagree with a decision he has taken. I don't buy this 'need a new challenge / lure of premier league too great' stuff that we have been fed over the Hughes transfer. That could easily be translated as Rowett being unable to create a compelling vision of the future at Derby with the result that he (and possibly others) didn't see a strong enough reason to stay and fight for the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bald Eagle's Barmy Army Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 I just want to get promoted, I really don't care who's in the team or how we play. One thing everybody has to do though is support each other and not just one element of the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rample Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Not sure it's a question of not trusting Rowett per se, or anyone seeing him as another Pearson. In fact didn't he get an average Birmingham to the top of the table for a while also? The issue has to be surely what he could achieve building his squad around quality players rather than replacing them, and the cause is previously wasted money meaning we have to sell, it's not a case not a case of backing or blaming players, manager or even owner. Ideally we keep Ince and co and win the league in style, realistically we'll probably be solid and around the play offs. You can only do what you are able to with the resources you have. Long term I expect Rowett to get us up in a year or 2, and think he's a good bet for keeping us there a while, all based on a solid rather than spectacular style of play. Stability all round is the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, CHCDerby said: I just want to get promoted, I really don't care who's in the team or how we play. One thing everybody has to do though is support each other and not just one element of the team. Really?......I'm not sure what the point is if I don't enjoy watching the football,after all that's why I watch the game and partly why I support Derby. I know that Mel's "the Derby way" was much derided but I kind of got what he meant. In respect of backing GR,I absolutely will but I'll also back the players too,it's part and parcel to me. I'm reasonably hopeful that with the squad we have,attractive football will follow in any case but with some rowett pragmatism thrown in on the 'grind it out' matches. That combination should see us battling it out for promotion.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottingram Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 My issue is that IF it's decided Rowett isn't the man for the job by the powers that be, we'll have left ourselves in a situation where we've a weaker squad built to suit a manager who is no longer here. Rowett is putting that pressure upon himself by selling these players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Instead of selecting the good players and saying we only finished mid table, how about selecting the distinctly poor players who contribute very little and putting that as the reason... Seriously criticising Ince who contributed more than Butterfield, Johnson, Russell, Weimann and Blackman combined is a shocker of a post! These are the reasons why we finish mid table! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsnip Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Keep only the players that really want to play for Derby County then back them all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterRam Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 I agree with letting the Manager run with his own ideas, he is in no doubt piling pressure on his own shoulders by moving fans favourites to pastures new, but time will tell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 27 minutes ago, metalsheep02 said: Saul, I like a lot of what you post on here but I can't agree on this one. 12 months ago you could have constructed exactly the same argument in support of Nigel Pearson 'he got Leicester City up', 'look at what Ranieri did with Pearson's team' and there were people on here making exactly the same sort of arguments around 'give him time' and probably even some defending the Martin loan. In your analysis of the Rowett at B'rum vs Derby over the same period you have not mentioned that during that period they had one manager and we had five, I am sure that impacted on performances (Burton away last season has even been quoted by Mel Morris. I don't doubt that we should support the club but I also feel that a supporter has the right to challenge appropriately if they feel a change is not for the better - rather than blindly trust that it will all work out well. I feel quite confident that Rowett will have a positive impact but I am not willing to simply offer blind support if I disagree with a decision he has taken. I don't buy this 'need a new challenge / lure of premier league too great' stuff that we have been fed over the Hughes transfer. That could easily be translated as Rowett being unable to create a compelling vision of the future at Derby with the result that he (and possibly others) didn't see a strong enough reason to stay and fight for the club. Agreed and I'd like to add we were cruising in 14/15 up until we had an injury crisis that wold have derailed most teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 I'm really not fussed about promotion unless its achieved in the manner of bournemouth - playing good football which is suited to the Premier league, in a sustinable set up. going up like hull and boro and having a poor season with managerial sackings and relegation isn't really to be envied. therefore we should build a young side which can develop, mature and provide a base for five or six seasons. Even if we don't go up as long as we are playing good football and getting close, fans will be happy. I can't really tell what direction GR is trying to go in yet. He seems like a cross between Pearson - scorched earth, smash it up and start again; and Nigel clough - pragmatic, cost cutting, grind it out. There is bound to be some rebuild, and moving away from the spend, spend, spend, qpr-style which is welcome. But at the moment it is just too early to see what it is we are trying to build. The doubts are probably because of his apparent enthusiasm for Butterfield and Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JG400 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 There's only one way to find out................Fight and that I believe is how a previous manager got the sack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BathRam72 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 16 minutes ago, nottingram said: My issue is that IF it's decided Rowett isn't the man for the job by the powers that be, we'll have left ourselves in a situation where we've a weaker squad built to suit a manager who is no longer here. Rowett is putting that pressure upon himself by selling these players. I think Rowett knows exactly what he is doing. He arrived on the back of a good few managers in quick succession. So he knows the outcome for failure. It would be easy for him to try and keep hold of the FANS favourites and at least appease them. At least he has the courage of his convictions and is going to do it HIS way and I for one applaud him for that. If he fails he only has himself to blame. Let's say he goes into this season with an unchanged squad because the fans want to keep the favourites and he fails. There would be so many on here saying "Why didn't he get rid of.....". I know we consider Will and Ince as our best players, but if they don't fit the bill then so be it. I also believe that they both wanted a move. Time is running out for Ince and the chances are limited. Will's time in the U21's is also limited and he sees a move up the ladder as his way of keeping a high profile. Another season with Derby could be a big gamble for both of them. I will reserve judgement for around December and fingers crossed you will all forget about this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamBamFan Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 I firmly believe Rowett is the man. I think his hands are tied when it comes to the players that he's losing due to FFP/they don't want to be here anymore. But as previously said, if anyone can work with so little tools then it's Rowett. Our football next season might not be as sexy as McClaren, but it certainly won't be as dreadful as Pearson. I'm expecting Huddersfield-esq fast-paced football with hardworking players. Whether it gets results we'll wait and see. But MM must stay patient, and that's the most important bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted June 30, 2017 Author Share Posted June 30, 2017 29 minutes ago, rammieib said: Instead of selecting the good players and saying we only finished mid table, how about selecting the distinctly poor players who contribute very little and putting that as the reason... Seriously criticising Ince who contributed more than Butterfield, Johnson, Russell, Weimann and Blackman combined is a shocker of a post! These are the reasons why we finish mid table! I haven't criticised Ince (or Hughes or Keogh). On the contrary, I love watching Tom Ince and will be disappointed if/when he leaves, however I can also see why Rowett might have to cash in on our assets if he's to improve our team over all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Well the simple answer is the alternative to backing rowett is mel Morris looking for a manager with the proviso that he feels the players we have are right for promotion and said manager has to manage them and gain promotion with them ,,,,,, imagine the outcry from that one????????? and all this let's build a young team patiently that's capable of getting up and staying up playing attractive football only is so much b******s ,, ffp is already biting , the gap between even temporary yo yo clubs and us in terms of financial restraints and room to operate is growing every year ,, nope sorry mate my view is tell rowett to get us up then we will work from there in a far better financial position ,, anything else is just romantic clap trap , i want Derby back at the top table , next I want us to be bloody decent at the top table ,,, in that order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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