Back Rowett or Back the players?

[BramcoteRam84]

The huge difference between Rowett and Pearson is that Rowett has a plan. He's seen where we lack balance and he's addressing it, unfortunately for us impatient ones we can't judge him until transfer window is complete and we are a good way into the season. Those who witnessed the improvement in performance in his 9 games at the end of last season should be encouraged about the future.

Pearson, tried impose a rigid style of play and formation on a squad not suited to it, yet he waited until the last day of the transfer window  to make any signings! 

No one likes to see good players leave but Will Hughes has not improved in 2 years, he needs a challenge to kick on and I truly believe he will flourish in the premier league. Ince was our best outfield player last season but I don't think we'll miss him. Can't see us replacing him like for like unless we could sign Jota, but we have money to invest in some attacking players now, be it proven talent or unproven talent. Martin is back who has scored more goals and made more assists than Ince in previous seasons, and Vydra used correctly is capable of ripping up the division as he proved at Watford.

We have to wait and see, but I think we will see a team that is more resilient that can grind results out, that is quick in transition on the counter attack that can also play a bit of football when required. 

Those people in meltdown and the sale of Hughes and impending sale of Ince need to get some perspective. If you don't get promoted your best players leave and you have to adapt. 

[Jayram]

1 hour ago, G-Ram said:

Oooo will hughes a worm don't call our precious william... how do you know if he was or wasnt one of the disruptive ones in the dressing room running to melvin behind managers backs 

He wanted away & he's gone & i think its time this forum got over it. He was a good player at this level but he wont turn into a delle alli & he wont be an England regular he simply isnt as good as we think he is 

How do you know Hughes or anybody else was a 'worm'? Or does saying that justify to you the fire sale of our most talented midefielder? I imagine he wanted away because the manager made it clear that he didn't value his ability. Anyway, how do you know what he will turn into? I think he will smash it in the Prem, where his kind of quality is valued so good luck to him.

As for the forum 'getting over it', this is why we have a forum; to give our opinions on whatever we see fit. I don't rate Rowett and the business he's done so far but I will support my team as I've always done. You have a different view and that's fair enough. If you don't like view's that are contrary to your own don't read the posts.

 

[RoyMac5]

42 minutes ago, Jayram said:

Or does saying that justify to you the fire sale of our most talented midefielder?

No-one else wanted him. Should we have risked him staying and having another poor season or accepted the fact that it wasn't a bad fee and move on. I'm still not happy but I can see the necessity and actually am starting to think it was the right move for us. Plus lets see who comes through (U23s) or in.

[angieram]

2 hours ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

The huge difference between Rowett and Pearson is that Rowett has a plan. He's seen where we lack balance and he's addressing it, unfortunately for us impatient ones we can't judge him until transfer window is complete and we are a good way into the season. Those who witnessed the improvement in performance in his 9 games at the end of last season should be encouraged about the future.

Pearson, tried impose a rigid style of play and formation on a squad not suited to it, yet he waited until the last day of the transfer window  to make any signings! 

No one likes to see good players leave but Will Hughes has not improved in 2 years, he needs a challenge to kick on and I truly believe he will flourish in the premier league. Ince was our best outfield player last season but I don't think we'll miss him. Can't see us replacing him like for like unless we could sign Jota, but we have money to invest in some attacking players now, be it proven talent or unproven talent. Martin is back who has scored more goals and made more assists than Ince in previous seasons, and Vydra used correctly is capable of ripping up the division as he proved at Watford.

We have to wait and see, but I think we will see a team that is more resilient that can grind results out, that is quick in transition on the counter attack that can also play a bit of football when required. 

Those people in meltdown and the sale of Hughes and impending sale of Ince need to get some perspective. If you don't get promoted your best players leave and you have to adapt. 

What a sensible post - won't be popular on here! 

[Curtains]

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/derby-county-boss-gary-rowett-says-rams-can-cut-numbers-and-be-stronger/story-30417683-detail/story.html

[Alph]

9 hours ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

The huge difference between Rowett and Pearson is that Rowett has a plan. He's seen where we lack balance and he's addressing it, unfortunately for us impatient ones we can't judge him until transfer window is complete and we are a good way into the season. Those who witnessed the improvement in performance in his 9 games at the end of last season should be encouraged about the future.

Pearson, tried impose a rigid style of play and formation on a squad not suited to it, yet he waited until the last day of the transfer window  to make any signings! 

No one likes to see good players leave but Will Hughes has not improved in 2 years, he needs a challenge to kick on and I truly believe he will flourish in the premier league. Ince was our best outfield player last season but I don't think we'll miss him. Can't see us replacing him like for like unless we could sign Jota, but we have money to invest in some attacking players now, be it proven talent or unproven talent. Martin is back who has scored more goals and made more assists than Ince in previous seasons, and Vydra used correctly is capable of ripping up the division as he proved at Watford.

We have to wait and see, but I think we will see a team that is more resilient that can grind results out, that is quick in transition on the counter attack that can also play a bit of football when required. 

Those people in meltdown and the sale of Hughes and impending sale of Ince need to get some perspective. If you don't get promoted your best players leave and you have to adapt. 

There was no improvement in performance in 9 games. It was as unpredictable and as dull as it was before him. We suffered our heaviest defeat of the season to Brentford, drew at Rotherham. The game v Huddersfield was up there with the Brighton away for being the most boring passive s**t I've ever had the pleasure of viewing. When he did seem to hit a sweet spot with the system and Vydra looked alright he went and dropped him and changed the system. There was no fluency. There was a bit of a boost in results but we still finished the season with 1 win in 5.His record was P9 W4 D3 L2 with a +1GD. The 44% win ratio was the same as McClarens and matched his time at Burton for a career high.

The 2 years Will Hughes "hasn't improved" includes almost a full year of injury? 

You say Ince was our best player but that we wouldn't miss him? How do you not miss your best player? Surely he would add to any success we have without him?

What Vydra did at Watford in 2014, what Johnson did at Norwich, what Butters did at Huddersfield, what Shackell did at Burnley, what Pearson did at Leicester.. It just doesn't transfer over. Vydra has miles to go before you can keep any faith in him.

I'm not in meltdown. I'm just doing the same as last summer. Everyone was putting positive spin on what Pearson has done in the past. Martin loaned out? "Yeah, Yeah makes sense." Hendrick sold and  £12m on Anya and Vydra? "Yeah he needs to shake things up" 

Some of were accused of having a negative meltdown then but it's just a case of not having blind faith. If you think selling Hughes/loaning Martin is a bad idea then why can't you pull someone up on it when they say it's a great masterplan? 

There's always this response like "Your being negative".. is it possible that others are putting positive spin on everything? 

"Its only 0/10/100 games into the season"... so how come it's ok to say players are great signings? How do you know? 

Last summer I felt like a few of us were dragged into a position where we were constantly hammering Pearson before we kicked a ball. But it was just a case of saying 'No, he didn't win the PL with Leicester. He's not guaranteed to 'fix' Derby County. The Sun doesn't shine out his backside and some of his decisions can be questioned without being labelled a negative moaner"

Same here. When Rowett has produced something good then he'll gather support. Until then why should everyone be happy with his every move and applaud him for it? He's not earned that yet. 

Just trying to balance it. What Rowett did at Birmingham was no more a miracle than what Mac did at Derby. If you don't give one a glowing review then you can't give the other.

[RamNut]

I'd give that 2 likes if i could.

 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

7 hours ago, angieram said:

What a sensible post - won't be popular on here! 

I agree with 95 percent of what was written too but

I didn't see an improvement over his 9 games in charge.

It was pretty much the same as Mac's last games in charge...

[Highgate]

Absolutely terrific post by @Alpha. Completely rational synopsis of our current situation in my opinion. and essential reading for the 'In Rowett We Trust' brigade.

It's not disloyal of fans to question the manager's decisions at any time. We all want what's best for the club but have different opinions on how to achieve it, isn't that what a fans forum is for? Of course we want to have a positive and supportive atmosphere for the team on matchday, but we can do that and still have misgivings about the path Rowett is taking.

Given his decisions of late I'm not terribly optimistic, but I'm willing to wait and see how his team performs next season, just like other Derby fans should wait and see before pledging their unswerving loyalty to him.

[NottsRam77]

On 30/06/2017 at 09:21, Saul Pimpson said:

There has been so much whining about the sale and potential sale of what many of us consider to be our key players.

However the facts are that the likes of Hughes, Keogh & Ince have been mainstays in our side for the last 3 years (2 of the last 3 years for Hughes, 2.5 of the last 3 years for Ince).

Our finishes in these seasons have been:

2014-15: 8th

2015-16: 5th

2016-17: 9th

Meanwhile our new manager, on a budget of NIL at Birmingham achieved the following finishing positions:

2014-15: 10th

2015-16: 10th

2016-17: 7th (to 14th Dec)

Gary Rowett has achieved comparable seasons operating with a much less talented Birmingham squad and a budget of NIL.

With a bit of financial backing and a bit of supporter backing, Gary Rowett will likely prove to be more successful at Derby than the likes of Hughes, Keogh & Ince have managed to be.

We need to back the man.

 

Are we all clear that backing him means giving him more than 5 minutes or as been mentiomed else where til xmas before we start booing, sharpening the knives and calling for his head on a silver platter 

just checking 

[RamNut]

There was an improvement for the first four games. We took 10 points from 4 games and RD were telling GR how he was breaking records for the best ever start by a new manager ( altho we were a bit lucky at brum)

but

the last five games were pretty alarming, combined with GR describing it as "a slow death", and suddenly announcing that he knew what he wanted to do before he'd even arrived and met the players.

We won one against a really surprisingly abject Wolves side. Rotherham away lingers for all the wrong reasons. Brentford away showed how far we have fallen.

GR would probably say that this proves his point that a total rebuild is required. He has no attachment to any of the inherited players and is free to go in whatever direction he wants. 

[Alph]

9 minutes ago, Highgate said:

Absolutely terrific post by @Alpha. Completely rational synopsis of our current situation in my opinion. and essential reading for the 'In Rowett We Trust' brigade.

It's not disloyal of fans to question the manager's decisions at any time. We all want what's best for the club but have different opinions on how to achieve it, isn't that what a fans forum is for? Of course we want to have a positive and supportive atmosphere for the team on matchday, but we can do that and still have misgivings about the path Rowett is taking.

Given his decisions of late I'm not terribly optimistic, but I'm willing to wait and see how his team performs next season, just like other Derby fans should wait and see before pledging their unswerving loyalty to him.

Exactly.

The clash here isn't between happy clappers and wrist slashers because there's nothing to applaud or to make you sharpen the razors yet (unless you're a drama queen)

It's a clash between the innocent until proven guilty and the guilty until proven innocent brigades. I can understand both sides certainly 

I just think some of the enthusiastic posters don't understand that for some folk it's like "if you do something for my club then I'll support you. Until then you're a risk, a gamble and I don't trust you."

It's not fickle if we all start loving Rowett by November. It's a case of asking him to earn our trust. 

If he'd come in last January, set his system and the midfield looked beautiful, organised, amazing telepathy etc etc and Hughes wasn't getting a kick then people would trust him to know what our midfield needs. But he hadn't earned that. 

Hughes however has shown there's something magic about him. He has produced moments of joy and excitement. So when a guy we don't know sells a guy we do know... you get where we are now. 

[angieram]

15 minutes ago, Alpha said:

 

I just think some of the enthusiastic posters don't understand that for some folk it's like "if you do something for my club then I'll support you. Until then you're a risk, a gamble and I don't trust you."

 

Yes, I  get that. Although I  think that "if you do something for my club that makes us worse as a team on the field of play then I will criticise you. Until then I agreed that a new approach was needed so I will reserve judgement and offer my support."

I haven't seen the evidence either way yet as a ball hasn't been kicked. 

[Ken Tram]

I want Rowett to stay the whole season whether we are top 2, top 6, or not.

[Alph]

4 minutes ago, angieram said:

Yes, I  get that. Although I  think that "if you do something for my club that makes us worse as a team on the field of play then I will criticise you. Until then I agreed that a new approach was needed so I will reserve judgement and offer my support."

I haven't seen the evidence either way yet as a ball hasn't been kicked. 

Can only speak for myself but my support on matchday is unconditional. However on here I don't really 'support' Derby. This is where we can say what we really feel away from affecting the confidence/energy of the team. 

If Joe Bloggs doesn't think selling Will Hughes is a good idea then why should he offer support on the forum? Where can he say "selling Hughes is a dumb idea"

This is the perfect place to have a good gossip. 

Come Saturday in August I think everyone should try to make Rowett and the squad feel like we back them 100%. 

I mean if there's no evidence that selling Hughes was bad idea and so we should not judge it then there's no evidence that buying Davies and Wisdom was a good idea so there should be no comments on that side. 

I think it's good to have people questioning this sort of thing. One problem with innocent until proven guilty is once the crime has been committed you can't undo it. The damage is done. 

I'm not saying lock up all adults and you rid the world of paedophiles obviously. This is purely in the context of a football fan having faith in an owner, manager, player. 

Rowett doesn't come here with a history of breaking down and building teams, winning promotions. I accept he's still very early in his career. But we all judge the future based on the past. There's no reason for the more cautious of us to believe in Rowett yet. Yet. 

I didn't believe in McClaren when he came in. I wouldn't trust him to manage a Championship side from mid table to top 6. I didn't trust his first signings. But by the end of 2013/14 season I trusted him to make top 2 the following season. I trusted him certainly in the loan market. He could have loaned Claude Davis and I'd have supported it. 

Rowett's brave decision to sell Hughes and possibly Ince I don't trust or like. If it goes well though I'd trust him to field a team of Robbie Savage and would point to this summer as proof he's got big decisions right

[Curtains]

I like Rowett but I also like the players. 

Why does it have to be one or the other.   

 

[Parsnip]

24 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Rowett's brave decision to sell Hughes and possibly Ince I don't trust or like.

Surely there's more to it than simply 'deciding' to sell these players. The players own ambitions have to be taken in to account. Players have to want to be here. There's no point trying to motivate players who have one eye on their next move. Will & Ince absolutely had to take their premiership move this season - it's critical for their careers. In an ideal world they would've been going up with derby. But they aren't and that's not Rowett's fault.

[ramesses]

1 hour ago, Alpha said:

Rowett's brave decision to sell Hughes and possibly Ince I don't trust or like.

[Gone]

On 30/06/2017 at 09:21, Saul Pimpson said:

There has been so much whining about the sale and potential sale of what many of us consider to be our key players.

However the facts are that the likes of Hughes, Keogh & Ince have been mainstays in our side for the last 3 years (2 of the last 3 years for Hughes, 2.5 of the last 3 years for Ince).

Our finishes in these seasons have been:

2014-15: 8th

2015-16: 5th

2016-17: 9th

Meanwhile our new manager, on a budget of NIL at Birmingham achieved the following finishing positions:

2014-15: 10th

2015-16: 10th

2016-17: 7th (to 14th Dec)

Gary Rowett has achieved comparable seasons operating with a much less talented Birmingham squad and a budget of NIL.

With a bit of financial backing and a bit of supporter backing, Gary Rowett will likely prove to be more successful at Derby than the likes of Hughes, Keogh & Ince have managed to be.

We need to back the man.

 

But hasn't achieved anything. I'll back him, but the facts are he's done nothing. 

[TommyPowell]

On 6/30/2017 at 09:57, nottingram said:

My issue is that IF it's decided Rowett isn't the man for the job by the powers that be, we'll have left ourselves in a situation where we've a weaker squad built to suit a manager who is no longer here.

Rowett is putting that pressure upon himself by selling these players.

Thats it get the guy sacked before a ball is kicked that should be the last thing on your mind.Yes we would love to see them playing sexy football bur can that be done a gain promotion chances are very slim If we win  80% of our games !.0  and go on to win promotion then most fans will be over the moon All guys would love to pull Beyonce but most will settle for boring beryl