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Nigel, tonight.

Warren Hobhead

By Warren Hobhead
in Derby County Forum

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RoyMac5

RoyMac5

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Boycie said:

arent we all entitled to our own opinions on him? He has his, we have ours, but deep down we all appreciate him steadying the ship don't we?

Even putting aside my dislike of him I'm not sure I can agree with that, it really only suited the owners at the time.

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Ellafella

Ellafella

Posted
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16 hours ago, RodleyRam said:

First part of this comment is way off the mark. His success rate on transfers far exceeds the mispurchase of MacGuire, who was what? £600k? Sammon, though much maligned, performed a role for us and even scored some key goals which contributed to our third place finish. Who else could you have guaranteed would have been a better purchase than the £1.2m we spent on Sammon at the time. At that kind of money you're always struggling to pick winners. The fact that he got so many players right, that are still involved in a promotion challenging side make your point look a tad off the mark.

Look at the current outlay on our squad and our league position and I'd say I'd trust Clough with a transfer budget more than any manager who's succeeded him, McClaren aside probably.

As for sacking Nigel being one of the best decisions this century... pretty spectacular statement without much foundation. Where were we when he got sacked and where are we now? Contrast that to where we were when he took over and where we were when he got sacked and i think only an absolute fool would say he didn't leave us in a significantly better state than when he found us. We'll never really know if he'd have taken us to the next level but we weren't going backwards.

There's no doubt that McClaren brought a new life to the side but 4 years later we're still exactly where we were when Clough was sacked, with a more disjointed squad and a FFP rating unlikely to be going down well with the powers that be. So if you're going to criticise Clough for a lack of progress then you have to level the same criticism at everyone who's been involved since.

People talk about a lack of ambition. For me, Nigel's ambition was far grander than spunking a few million on players, not that he had that anyway. It ran deeper and bigger than 'going for promotion'. It was slow and steady but in my opinion it was the original form of the Derby Way, much as defining it in a strap line makes me cringe. He may not have excited people day to day but i think his long term vision was very exciting. For me, a lot of fans misunderstand ambition for spending but I always thought this was near sighted. With all our ambition in the last few seasons we're no further towards to promised land and I think our status as a proper football club has taken a backward step.

That's not to say Nigel was without fault. He's stubborn, conservative and fiercely loyal to those around him. Those characteristics often helped him but I think they also got in the way of progress and taking things to that next level. He doesn't have an inspiring personality in front of camera but I never doubted his ability to motivate the players. I'd take that any day over someone PR savvy.

All in all, he was and remains someone who divides opinion. I liked him, I feel like I could get on board with what he was trying to achieve and admire the way he went about it for the most part. He'd get a rousing round of applause from me if I wasn't such a filthy half fan.

That Sir, is a superb post. It is scalpel-incisive especially the "For me, Nigel's ambition was far grander than spunking a few million on players, not that he had that anyway. It ran deeper and bigger than 'going for promotion'. It was slow and steady but in my opinion it was the original form of the Derby Way, much as defining it in a strap line makes me cringe."

The irony is that Nigel Clough was actually implementing Mel Morris's grand plan ("The Derby Way") before Mel owned the Club. Aston Villa and Steve Bruce are yet again proving that throwing zillions of pounds on expensive players can get you nowhere fast; and if we face facts, we are indeed nowhere further forward than when Nigel was sacked...yet we do seem to have spent daft money on [some] very average footballers, thanks to certain managers.   I do like Mac and he is an excellent coach, but I don't think he has the strategic vision that NC has. NC sees the very big picture which takes time to evolve...we sacked him before all of the cogs and wheels were in place. So, if I was Mac, and Mel, and Sam, I would be sitting down about now and saying, right...what are we about o do for next season. A review is needed because this season is now too gone to chase. 

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Sith Happens

Sith Happens

Posted
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32 minutes ago, Srg said:

Presumably you saw how negatively you played last night? Which was so typically Clough.

You can say you were away, you can say we're a bigger club and all that nonsense. The fact of the matter is, we've been absolutely dreadful since Christmas, and you should be flying after beating Norwich.

Rather than play on a team who are so down on confidence, with fans waiting to get on their back, having conceded 7 goals to teams as bad as you supposedly are in 2 games, you come and literally do not even attempt to score a goal at any point.

Any modicum of scouting would tell you to press us, get in our face high up the pitch and then get balls in the box from any angle and we fall down quicker than Chris Martin in the box. But no, clearly not bothering with football was a better tactic.

3 points were there, you just didn't even try.

In fairness we didn't try to hard against bottom 4 opposition

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ramsbottom

ramsbottom

Posted
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6 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

That Sir, is a superb post. It is scalpel-incisive especially the "For me, Nigel's ambition was far grander than spunking a few million on players, not that he had that anyway. It ran deeper and bigger than 'going for promotion'. It was slow and steady but in my opinion it was the original form of the Derby Way, much as defining it in a strap line makes me cringe."

The irony is that Nigel Clough was actually implementing Mel Morris's grand plan ("The Derby Way") before Mel owned the Club. Aston Villa and Steve Bruce are yet again proving that throwing zillions of pounds on expensive players can get you nowhere fast; and if we face facts, we are indeed nowhere further forward than when Nigel was sacked...yet we do seem to have spent daft money on [some] very average footballers, thanks to certain managers.   I do like Mac and he is an excellent coach, but I don't think he has the strategic vision that NC has. NC sees the very big picture which takes time to evolve...we sacked him before all of the cogs and wheels were in place. So, if I was Mac, and Mel, and Sam, I would be sitting down about now and saying, right...what are we about o do for next season. A review is needed because this season is now too gone to chase. 

Am I the only one who was more excited with us signing the likes of Brayford, Bailey, Bryson and watching them develop, than spunking £8m on Vydra???  Of all of Schteve's signings, the unpolished gems like Christie have been the most satisfying...

I'm not a Nigel apologist, he'd taken us as far as he could (his admiral dedication to his limited backroom staff, holds him back) but it's debatable that he had a better hit rate with signings than his successors.  

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Boycie

Boycie

Posted
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19 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Even putting aside my dislike of him I'm not sure I can agree with that, it really only suited the owners at the time.

Eh? 

Saving us from supporting a league one team and possible ownership loosing interest?

but I guess you are right, we'd support the club in any division, we've done it before. Not having a club to support is another problem though.

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RoyMac5

RoyMac5

Posted
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3 minutes ago, Boycie said:

Eh? 

Saving us from supporting a league one team and possible ownership loosing interest?

but I guess you are right, we'd support the club in any division, we've done it before. Not having a club to support is another problem though.

That is the supposition that makes Cloughs midtable mediocrity look like a plus. But what if the owners had had more ambition? Or was it when they finally did they sacked Clough?

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Boycie

Boycie

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23 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

That is the supposition that makes Cloughs midtable mediocrity look like a plus. But what if the owners had had more ambition? Or was it when they finally did they sacked Clough?

Wasn't it around the time the new investment was possibly being discussed in the board room?

time flies doesn't it?

 

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Mostyn6

Mostyn6

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, CLOUGH1971-72 said:

As Donald trump would say Clough showed rush and vickers up "BIG LEAUGE"

 

11 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

And as the rest of the world would say back...WTF are you going on about...

and what the hell is that last word? and who is Vickers? and why is Clough allowed an upper-case C, but rush not allowed an upper case r.

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1 minute ago, angieram said:

I heard Andy Garner state on Radio Derby before the match that we had spent £150 million since him and Clough left. Is it really that much? If it isn't then maybe the Club should be challenging this. It was presented as fact, not an opinion. 

Having heard Andy garner speak it doesn't surprise maths isn't his strong point

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6 minutes ago, Boycie said:

Sacking clough and signing Mac was stopped from being the best decision for everyone by one person.

Zamora.

fine margins

Really? But I am reliably told by some on here it was all down to Richard Keogh. 

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cannable

cannable

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, angieram said:

I heard Andy Garner state on Radio Derby before the match that we had spent £150 million since him and Clough left. Is it really that much? If it isn't then maybe the Club should be challenging this. It was presented as fact, not an opinion. 

£100,000,000's supposedly gone/going into the academy 

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