Nigel, tonight.

[Animal is a Ram]

Do we really need the same old lines every time Clough/Derby get mentioned in the same breath?

All invariably boils down to:

• He did a decent job of stabilising a club in a right mess with little money
• Reached a peak
• Took umbridge to the way he was sacked 

Rinse and repeat.

[Sith Happens]

42 minutes ago, Animal is a Ram said:

Do we really need the same old lines every time Clough/Derby get mentioned in the same breath?

All invariably boils down to:

• He did a decent job of stabilising a club in a right mess with little money
• Reached a peak
• Took umbridge to the way he was sacked 

Rinse and repeat

But thats the issue because I agree with you, but some think he did a poor job, some think he hadn't reached a peak.

 

This is why we don't discuss Paul Jewell or billy Davies because mostly everyone's opinions on these two are the same.

[Gazbrewer]

4 hours ago, Srg said:

Presumably you saw how negatively you played last night? Which was so typically Clough.

You can say you were away, you can say we're a bigger club and all that nonsense. The fact of the matter is, we've been absolutely dreadful since Christmas, and you should be flying after beating Norwich.

Rather than play on a team who are so down on confidence, with fans waiting to get on their back, having conceded 7 goals to teams as bad as you supposedly are in 2 games, you come and literally do not even attempt to score a goal at any point.

Any modicum of scouting would tell you to press us, get in our face high up the pitch and then get balls in the box from any angle and we fall down quicker than Chris Martin in the box. But no, clearly not bothering with football was a better tactic.

3 points were there, you just didn't even try.

Have you seen our away record? Apart from a recent win against QPR, and bottom club Rotherham, we've been hammered away. The fact is other teams in the Championship have far better players than us. I was expecting Derby to be fired up for this after our win earlier in the season - but they came out like it was a friendly...fortunately for us. With that in mind, I can understand why Clough played a weakened team last night, and only played a couple of our better players for 45 mins each. I saw an earlier post by someone pre-match that said we'd do this...absolutely spot on. Our game against Blackburn on Friday is a proper 6 pointer.

I think if Kightly had been risked (he has tight hamstring), we might have gone for it. I was massively disappointed to see he didn't even make the bench. At the same time, we can't afford for him to be out for 3 weeks if he goes and pulls it.

On the whole Clough thing - if he'd have been instrumental in taking your club up 3 divisions (northern prem, conference, league1) and laid the foundations in a similar way to he did at Derby (academy etc) you'd maybe understand why most of us love the guy so much.

[DRBee]

2 minutes ago, Gazbrewer said:

Have you seen our away record? Apart from a recent win against QPR, and bottom club Rotherham, we've been hammered away. The fact is other teams in the Championship have far better players than us. I was expecting Derby to be fired up for this after our win earlier in the season - but they came out like it was a friendly...fortunately for us. With that in mind, I can understand why Clough played a weakened team last night, and only played a couple of our better players for 45 mins each. I saw an earlier post by someone pre-match that said we'd do this...absolutely spot on. Our game against Blackburn on Friday is a proper 6 pointer.

I think if Kightly had been risked (he has tight hamstring), we might have gone for it. I was massively disappointed to see he didn't even make the bench. At the same time, we can't afford for him to be out for 3 weeks if he goes and pulls it.

A delusional post that contradicts what that intellectual giant Andy Garner said about the team selection . 

Do Brewers fans really want to be judged as 'little old Burton' and have allowances made or do they want be treated and judged like all other Championship teams? Clough's ambition last night was solely to avoid conceding and he succeeded, he will have motivated his team using the bitterness he has towards Derby and Sam Rush . That he failed to appear for interview after the match is fully  consistent with his mardy nature.

[MuespachRam]

1 minute ago, DRBee said:

A delusional post that contradicts what that intellectual giant Andy Garner said about the team selection . 

Do Brewers fans really want to be judged as 'little old Burton' and have allowances made or do they want be treated and judged like all other Championship teams? Clough's ambition last night was solely to avoid conceding and he succeeded, he will have motivated his team using the bitterness he has towards Derby and Sam Rush . That he failed to appear for interview after the match is fully  consistent with his mardy nature.

What a load of old tosh. 

He always used to share the post match interviews around with the rest of his team and they are a "team" he always refers to them as "we" Andy Garner had a reasonable footballing career and was with us in the darkest times (some on here may need to remember those days) and I am sure he would have been more than happy with the manager letting him speak afterwards. Good management skills. 

 

burton ARE little old Albion, they ARE the smallest team in this league and fostering that siege mentality amongst the team and supporters is exactly what will help them stay up  

good luck to them, we will be waiting in this league for them again that's for sure  

 

[Funky]

4 hours ago, Srg said:

Presumably you saw how negatively you played last night? Which was so typically Clough.

You can say you were away, you can say we're a bigger club and all that nonsense. The fact of the matter is, we've been absolutely dreadful since Christmas, and you should be flying after beating Norwich.

Rather than play on a team who are so down on confidence, with fans waiting to get on their back, having conceded 7 goals to teams as bad as you supposedly are in 2 games, you come and literally do not even attempt to score a goal at any point.

Any modicum of scouting would tell you to press us, get in our face high up the pitch and then get balls in the box from any angle and we fall down quicker than Chris Martin in the box. But no, clearly not bothering with football was a better tactic.

3 points were there, you just didn't even try.

I do find posts like this difficult to understand.  Burton's squad last night cost £250k.  What was Derby's?  What would you expect the relative wage bill to be between the two 18s?  One point was very valuable to Burton last night.  It is not 'typical Clough' or even symptomatic of the way Burton have been playing all season.  But it was pragmatic in the circumstances and entirely correct.

 

[Funky]

15 minutes ago, DRBee said:

A delusional post that contradicts what that intellectual giant Andy Garner said about the team selection . 

Do Brewers fans really want to be judged as 'little old Burton' and have allowances made or do they want be treated and judged like all other Championship teams? Clough's ambition last night was solely to avoid conceding and he succeeded, he will have motivated his team using the bitterness he has towards Derby and Sam Rush . That he failed to appear for interview after the match is fully  consistent with his mardy nature.

Burton's wage bill for the season is £7million.  What is Derby's?  Burton are clearly the smallest team in the division by a long way and are not funding a dream by irresponsibly building debt.  What is Derby's position on chasing a dream and debt?  Has Morris given the club his money or is it a loan?  A point away at a playoff contender is a priceless point in the context of the season.  Especially when you keep a clean sheet, because in that circumstance 'it only takes a second to score a goal.

[derbydaz22]

7 hours ago, bcnram said:

The football in many games was a hell of a lot more attractive than the predictable stuff we are getting at the moment. That is not a criticism of McClaren, he is lumbered with what he has to work with at the moment. 

Do you travel away?

[cannable]

56 minutes ago, Gazbrewer said:

Have you seen our away record? Apart from a recent win against QPR, and bottom club Rotherham, we've been hammered away. The fact is other teams in the Championship have far better players than us. 

He did that in his last full season with us though when we were actually good. We had the fifth best home record in the division, outplayed the entirety of the top six at PP and scored on average two goals a home game. 

And yet we had the third worst away record in the division. We set up as you did last night and inevitably lost as he'd built a team to control and not to defend.

We played Brighton away and set up so negatively that we even had Brayford in midfield trying to sure things up! Inevitably we went 2-0 down. Second half we play our usual game and pulled a goal back. 

We finished just seven points off the play-offs that season. All we needed was the 12th best away record in the division and we'd have made them. 

[Srg]

52 minutes ago, Funky said:

I do find posts like this difficult to understand.  Burton's squad last night cost £250k.  What was Derby's?  What would you expect the relative wage bill to be between the two 18s?  One point was very valuable to Burton last night.  It is not 'typical Clough' or even symptomatic of the way Burton have been playing all season.  But it was pragmatic in the circumstances and entirely correct.

 

Ah, the old money buys success argument. Football, and sport in general, is absolutely littered with examples of this being nonsense. Can it help? Yes, of course it can. But does one squad's value at the time of purchase matter whatsoever with two teams in the same league? Absolutely not.

@Gazbrewer I think you've proven my point with your away record. It's playing like you did last night, with the small time mentality that Clough drives home in every single interview that RD ram down my throat after every game, that gives you such an horrendous away record. Winning 1 out of every 3 games away is better than losing 2 and drawing 1.

[Ramshankered]

21 hours ago, Ewe Ram said:

Tell you what, when you have built your Nigel statue along side his dads outside the stadium I'll not go to the unveiling. That's it, I'm done. I don't do nit picky arguing, I thought it was a forum to express your views. 

Whoops! Guess I touched a nerve? 

Never said (nor implied) you aren't allowed to express your views. In the same breadth - if you're going to put your views on a public forum, you have to accept that some people may well disagree with said views and challenge you on them. 

[ronnieronalde]

12 minutes ago, Srg said:

Ah, the old money buys success argument. Football, and sport in general, is absolutely littered with examples of this being nonsense. Can it help? Yes, of course it can. But does one squad's value at the time of purchase matter whatsoever with two teams in the same league? Absolutely not.

@Gazbrewer I think you've proven my point with your away record. It's playing like you did last night, with the small time mentality that Clough drives home in every single interview that RD ram down my throat after every game, that gives you such an horrendous away record. Winning 1 out of every 3 games away is better than losing 2 and drawing 1.

There was a post on facebook the other day showing budget v league position and in more than 80% of teams they are within a place or two of where their budget places them. I agree that squad value doesn't matter overall when you're in the same league but you've surely got to agree that the more money you have the more chance you have of attracting top players and not having to wait and hope that your targets don't get snapped up by others

I'm also not so sure it's a small time mentality he's got, but yes, he does drum into his teams that they should walk before they can run. So he'll start by drawing a few more then those draws will hopefully/eventually turn into wins.

The pace he does things at is the one point I can see where people are coming from, sometimes the progress seems to be slow or none existent and I can see why that would drive fans a little crazy and maybe even drive some of them away.

 

[ronnieronalde]

As well as that @Srg you make a lot of sense with your one wins in three is better than a draw and two losses, but I can count 6 games off the top of my head this season, where if Burton had defended properly, maintained concentration, they'd have held on for a point.

They've conceded goals in the last 5 minutes to drop points against Forest, Bristol, Fulham, Brighton, Huddersifled and Cardiff at least. Not to mention the goals they've conceded going into the 45th minute.

With those extra six points and six goals, they'd be sitting prettily with 41 points and in 13th place and no one would be worried about away record.

So, I get what you're saying and we won't agree but just to offer a different perspective.

I think he's trying to get the team to walk before it can run, cut out the stupid mistakes, be solid then build from there. Once they get into good habits of seeing games though, then confidence comes from that.

You saw what a positive effect McClaren had on the Derby side when he came in and the team went on a run. Winning games and not losing games breeds confidence and the good football comes as a result of that.

[Gritstone Ram]

3 hours ago, MuespachRam said:

What a load of old tosh. 

He always used to share the post match interviews around with the rest of his team and they are a "team" he always refers to them as "we" Andy Garner had a reasonable footballing career and was with us in the darkest times (some on here may need to remember those days) and I am sure he would have been more than happy with the manager letting him speak afterwards. Good management skills. 

 

burton ARE little old Albion, they ARE the smallest team in this league and fostering that siege mentality amongst the team and supporters is exactly what will help them stay up  

good luck to them, we will be waiting in this league for them again that's for sure  

 

I remember our darkest time and I also remember that Andy Garner was f...ing useless.

[mozza]

Curry , tonight .

[MuespachRam]

22 hours ago, Gritters said:

I remember our darkest time and I also remember that Andy Garner was f...ing useless.

He was better than what we have upfront now.

[Sith Happens]

58 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

He was better than what we have upfront now.

His record would say differently. Hardly a prolific scorer, nor did he have a particularly impressive career.

[MuespachRam]

4 hours ago, Paul71 said:

His record would say differently. Hardly a prolific scorer, nor did he have a particularly impressive career.

One of my friends adopted his dog when he moved to Blackpool....I always wondered why he felt he couldn't take a dog to Blackpool...?

and I did say reasonable career.

[Ashz09]

Think he did a great job on a budget. Got the players up for the big games. Basically in some ways saved the club.

IMO he wouldn't of got any further even with a lot of money. I see him as a manager who gets the odd hidden gem who can graft (Bit like we need now). Good luck to him he's very bitter now which I guess who wouldn't be.

He'll always be in charge of smaller clubs though IMO bit like Burton and maybe Forest who are struggling and need some stability (Even though I'm still unsure how Burton are struggling with all there promotions and on a string budget).