Derby vs Wigan - matchday thread.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

Looks like a tens machine....I use one for back ache.

[TimRam]

12 hours ago, CumbrianRam said:

In fact only Reading (0-3) and Newcastle (0-2) have beat them by more than one goal, Wigans problems are more offensively than defensively 

I got flamed earlier for making a similar point. Wigan are not easy to score against. 30 conceded same as Reading and look where they are.

[Stripperg-ram]

Listened to the game and almost fell asleep. 

These games happen, so no point for self flagelation. In the context of how the season started, we should be happy with ending up in 10th place (not saying we will, btw) so a bit of objectivity is in order, especially in the light of having missing our first choose Right Back, Left Back and DM and Wardrobe - we're due a bit of a bad run. And without William for an away game against Norwich we shouldn't expect too much from that game either.

 

one thing that did strike me, whilst I listened to it, is what kind of career Adam Le Fondre's ended up with. I remember he was tipped to sign for us (was it while Jewell was manager?) and was the 'next big thing'. Certainly not a bad player, but didn't hit the heady heights as was predicted.

[Alph]

What an agonising game. 

Thought we started off really lively and straight away you could see we were hungry for an early goal. Wigan dropped deep and set about time wasting with 11 men behind the ball instantly. 

Then I think Butterfield was the first to clumsily give them a free run at our goal. Then they hit the post. Then Hughes went one better than Butterfield and actually gave them two chances to run at our CB's. A couple of saves later and I think the Wigan side that'd been hoping but not believing they could get a point were full of belief that they could get 3. 

They defended more confidently as the game went on and were far more positive on the ball than in the opening minutes. Once they settled in I don't think we looked like scoring. 

I wonder how long Darren Bent went without a touch. There was no risks taken to get the ball to him and likewise he looked like he'd given up. The midfield and Pearce took no risks. Ince popped up everywhere but couldn't shake off his markers. It was basically left to Anya and Russell/Camara. They took risks and were the only reason we even got down the side of Wigan. 

Bryson came on and instantly blended into a midfield that needed 5 touches per man and wanted to build up a pass percentage. 

Also after a while I didn't see the point in us playing a DM. Keogh and Pearce were given so much time on the ball that they could make the halfway line easy. Then they've only got half a pitch length of white shirts. They don't need someone to take it off them and pass 15 yards. 

I was hoping Mac might drop a midfielder out and stick someone next to Bent and try to force the play at the risk of less possession. 

But I guess the plan was to be patient and wait for a moment of magic. Never looked likely though after Wigan had taken so much confidence and we were playing with 10 men. Bent seriously never left that spot and nobody tried to fire it into his chest or land it on his head to look for the second ball. 

I dunno what came over Hughes and Butterfield so early. Complacency? Especially Hughes. Some really stupid decision making by his standards. 

Oh and the booing at HT and FT was a lovely touch. Derby fans never change do they. Give them a hint of success and they think they are entitled to it. But they'll continue to mock Newcastle fans. 

It's a game to forget. Not make a bigger deal out of. 

[King Kevin]

10 hours ago, PistoldPete2 said:

What is that stuff? Looks like a slender tone kit.

Fancy knowing that ,don't tell me your missus has got one .

[PistoldPete2]

19 minutes ago, Alpha said:

What an agonising game. 

Thought we started off really lively and straight away you could see we were hungry for an early goal. Wigan dropped deep and set about time wasting with 11 men behind the ball instantly. 

Then I think Butterfield was the first to clumsily give them a free run at our goal. Then they hit the post. Then Hughes went one better than Butterfield and actually gave them two chances to run at our CB's. A couple of saves later and I think the Wigan side that'd been hoping but not believing they could get a point were full of belief that they could get 3. 

They defended more confidently as the game went on and were far more positive on the ball than in the opening minutes. Once they settled in I don't think we looked like scoring. 

I wonder how long Darren Bent went without a touch. There was no risks taken to get the ball to him and likewise he looked like he'd given up. The midfield and Pearce took no risks. Ince popped up everywhere but couldn't shake off his markers. It was basically left to Anya and Russell/Camara. They took risks and were the only reason we even got down the side of Wigan. 

Bryson came on and instantly blended into a midfield that needed 5 touches per man and wanted to build up a pass percentage. 

Also after a while I didn't see the point in us playing a DM. Keogh and Pearce were given so much time on the ball that they could make the halfway line easy. Then they've only got half a pitch length of white shirts. They don't need someone to take it off them and pass 15 yards. 

I was hoping Mac might drop a midfielder out and stick someone next to Bent and try to force the play at the risk of less possession. 

But I guess the plan was to be patient and wait for a moment of magic. Never looked likely though after Wigan had taken so much confidence and we were playing with 10 men. Bent seriously never left that spot and nobody tried to fire it into his chest or land it on his head to look for the second ball. 

I dunno what came over Hughes and Butterfield so early. Complacency? Especially Hughes. Some really stupid decision making by his standards. 

Oh and the booing at HT and FT was a lovely touch. Derby fans never change do they. Give them a hint of success and they think they are entitled to it. But they'll continue to mock Newcastle fans. 

It's a game to forget. Not make a bigger deal out of. 

Yes I thought weimann or vydra or both would have been brought on to support bent but it didn't happen. Anya was virtually a winger anyway so we didn't really need camara on. Oh well, Wigan have a history of coming to pride park and frustrating us let's hope it's just one of those games that we have to get out of our system.

[Dimmu]

Disappointing draw but they do have Bucko and Jässi so they are more or less my second team.

[Ninos]

16 hours ago, Tony Le Mesmer said:

Bent today was appalling. By a country mile our worst player. Everyone had an off day but second half made up the lost ground with renewed effort.

Meanwhile I watched Bent make one run and touch the ball 3 times in half an hour after the restart.

I did feel a bit for the midfield having to trot yards with the ball whilst trying to fend off Wigan players and that was partly because Bent didn't move. The options and outlets just weren't there today.

We know how most sides are going to play against us at home yet we still look unconvincing and lacking creativity when Ince isn't producing.

In some games this season we've not been at our best, struggled against a compact defence yet managed to get goals out of nothing or at the right times to see off the opposition. Today we just had no answer.

Quite why we insist on trying to thread the ball through the eye of a needle against compact defences when there is no space is beyond me. We looked far more likely to score when Anya et al got round the back and posed problems with crosses.

Jaaskelainen and Carson proved what quality keepers they are.

Ok so it was a terrible performance but its another point and clean sheet off the back of such an amazing run so it's dead harsh to be critical. Yes I have been critical of Bent but he's entitled to a bad game , its just the frustrating laziness about him today when most others were at least having a go.

Why do Derby fans insist on singing you're effin **** to opponents also? Wigan have won the FA Cup, been in Europe and the Premier League for a good few years. Wouldn't mind a bit of that myself.

On top of that they comfortably held us and had the best chance of the match with a squad assembled on a fraction of ours. Ridiculous chant and really embarrassing.

Anyway. Bit negative so apologies but just put it down to players thinking they could just rock up and turn Wigan over, complete lack of effort and ideas first half anyway and just one of those days.

No real cause for complaints unless we get three or four of these performances on the bounce. I'm sure Mac and the lads will be getting ready for the Norwich test which could go any way.

Great crowd turnout again and kid loved the fireworks.

COYR!!

Good post Tony. I'm not sure what it was about that game but it was just really bad considering the opposition. We were all totally deflated after that. Liked macs early subs - but the final sub even though Bent was poor was a bit too negative - forward for forward to protect the 0-0. If the goal is to keep clean sheets versus a team as poor as Wigan at home then we are on course for nothing. Seriously.

The lossless results are nice I guess but the football hasn't really changed for a long time now. 

[jono]

Nice report @Alpha 

i'd  add that he  even tried 442 at the end with Ince and Vydra in the middle only for Hughes to get forward and compete with Vydra for who was going to shoot. 

Forgetting this one .. Too much turkey and stuffing ... She'll be right mate, most of those around us drew, one of those days. 

[Ninos]

2 minutes ago, jono said:

Nice report @Alpha 

i'd  add that he  even tried 442 at the end with Ince and Vydra in the middle only for Hughes to get forward and compete with Vydra for who was going to shoot. 

Forgetting this one .. Too much turkey and stuffing ... She'll be right mate, most of those around us drew, one of those days. 

Painful game that one Jono minus Anya moments, and will hughes brilliant dipsy do move at the corner flag. That was class. Butterfield was so sorry - that it was no surprise when Mac yanked him prematurely (56 mins or whatever it was is pretty early for Mcclaren)

[Tony Le Mesmer]

54 minutes ago, Alpha said:

What an agonising game. 

Thought we started off really lively and straight away you could see we were hungry for an early goal. Wigan dropped deep and set about time wasting with 11 men behind the ball instantly. 

Then I think Butterfield was the first to clumsily give them a free run at our goal. Then they hit the post. Then Hughes went one better than Butterfield and actually gave them two chances to run at our CB's. A couple of saves later and I think the Wigan side that'd been hoping but not believing they could get a point were full of belief that they could get 3. 

They defended more confidently as the game went on and were far more positive on the ball than in the opening minutes. Once they settled in I don't think we looked like scoring. 

I wonder how long Darren Bent went without a touch. There was no risks taken to get the ball to him and likewise he looked like he'd given up. The midfield and Pearce took no risks. Ince popped up everywhere but couldn't shake off his markers. It was basically left to Anya and Russell/Camara. They took risks and were the only reason we even got down the side of Wigan. 

Bryson came on and instantly blended into a midfield that needed 5 touches per man and wanted to build up a pass percentage. 

Also after a while I didn't see the point in us playing a DM. Keogh and Pearce were given so much time on the ball that they could make the halfway line easy. Then they've only got half a pitch length of white shirts. They don't need someone to take it off them and pass 15 yards. 

I was hoping Mac might drop a midfielder out and stick someone next to Bent and try to force the play at the risk of less possession. 

But I guess the plan was to be patient and wait for a moment of magic. Never looked likely though after Wigan had taken so much confidence and we were playing with 10 men. Bent seriously never left that spot and nobody tried to fire it into his chest or land it on his head to look for the second ball. 

I dunno what came over Hughes and Butterfield so early. Complacency? Especially Hughes. Some really stupid decision making by his standards. 

Oh and the booing at HT and FT was a lovely touch. Derby fans never change do they. Give them a hint of success and they think they are entitled to it. But they'll continue to mock Newcastle fans. 

It's a game to forget. Not make a bigger deal out of. 

Good post. I too heard some booing and just shouted out 'why are you booing you ******!'.

Yes it was a terrible game off the back of an equally terrible game against Birmingham but we're a point from a play off spot, have won about 6 or 7 on the spin at home including a draw v Brentford and not let a goal in. On top of that we've only narrowly lost at Hudds since Mac took over again!! Insane to boo.

Some of these fans want to go and support Morecambe, Torquay or Coventry for a while and then they might think again. Then again, maybe not. Perspective please booers.

I think with the subs, I think in hindsight about my posts about Bent, perhaps it would have helped him and us if someone had been brought on alongside him. Although he could have helped us and himself by dropping deeper to come and get the ball as the ball (for whatever reason) wasn't making it's way to him rendering him obsolete for the game.

Just use your head. If you're out of the game then do something else to try and get involved and help out rather than expecting something that's never going to come.

Anyway that game has gone and everyone has a chance to shake off the lethargy and sloppiness that blighted us yesterday at Norwich. Still a tough game and I'd be delighted with a point.

[Warren Hobhead]

59 minutes ago, Ninos said:

Painful game that one Jono minus Anya moments, and will hughes brilliant dipsy do move at the corner flag. That was class. Butterfield was so sorry - that it was no surprise when Mac yanked him prematurely (56 mins or whatever it was is pretty early for Mcclaren)

Butterfield was better than Hughes yesterday. Not by much, because both had off-days. At least the former carried a threat. Was unlucky with a few shots, which has been the story of his season. Last year they were flying in, this season they're doing anything but. Hughesy's kamikaze passes across midfield were fortunately not punished and again he gets a silly booking. But he's young and learning. And once on, sadly Bryson wasn't an improvement either. Even Bradley looked off-colour. No need to get at them. They're part of a record-breaking Derby team. They'll be forever in history for what they've achieved during this great run of form. It's ok to admit it sometimes. That we weren't great. One of those days. It happens. Take the point and clean-sheet, then move on. 

[KBB]

Think a few people who sat near me yesterday had been given tickets for Xmas presents as "Derby are winning at the moment" as I heard one bloke say to his mate.

hope they haven't got half season tickets as I would commit mass murder in a few games time.

Safe to say they turned up expecting Derby to beat them 74-0.

[BobbyD]

3 hours ago, Tony Le Mesmer said:

 

Yes it was a terrible game off the back of an equally terrible game against Birmingham 

Some of these fans want to go and support Morecambe, Torquay or Coventry for a while and then they might think again. Then again, maybe not. Perspective please.

 

Bizarre self-contradiction 

[Mr Tibbs]

Made more mistakes in this game than we did away at Liverpool in 07/08 with Moore and Claude at the helm. Thankfully Wigan didn't have Fernando Torres, they should have been out of sight by half time. 

Move on, quickly.

Striker needed ASAP, Bent and Vydra are good but we don't play to their strengths or even to their feet so what's the point. Need somebody who's going to drop between the lines and pull the defence around because that was all far too easy. 

[Alph]

15 minutes ago, Mr Tibbs said:

Made more mistakes in this game than we did away at Liverpool in 07/08 with Moore and Claude at the helm. Thankfully Wigan didn't have Fernando Torres, they should have been out of sight by half time. 

Move on, quickly.

Striker needed ASAP, Bent and Vydra are good but we don't play to their strengths or even to their feet so what's the point. Need somebody who's going to drop between the lines and pull the defence around because that was all far too easy. 

I think I moved more than Bent yesterday. Been giving him some love but he just watched the game yesterday. We could have dropped the ball on him a few times to see what happened but he didn't exactly go looking for the ball and he certainly didn't force his marker to make any decisions. I'd imagine Bent, Buxton and Burn (?) could probably do another 90 mins today. 

[Sith Happens]

3 hours ago, Tony Le Mesmer said:

Good post. I too heard some booing and just shouted out 'why are you booing you ******!'.

Yes it was a terrible game off the back of an equally terrible game against Birmingham but we're a point from a play off spot, have won about 6 or 7 on the spin at home including a draw v Brentford and not let a goal in. On top of that we've only narrowly lost at Hudds since Mac took over again!! Insane to boo.

Some of these fans want to go and support Morecambe, Torquay or Coventry for a while and then they might think again. Then again, maybe not. Perspective please booers.

I think with the subs, I think in hindsight about my posts about Bent, perhaps it would have helped him and us if someone had been brought on alongside him. Although he could have helped us and himself by dropping deeper to come and get the ball as the ball (for whatever reason) wasn't making it's way to him rendering him obsolete for the game.

Just use your head. If you're out of the game then do something else to try and get involved and help out rather than expecting something that's never going to come.

Anyway that game has gone and everyone has a chance to shake off the lethargy and sloppiness that blighted us yesterday at Norwich. Still a tough game and I'd be delighted with a point.

i didnt think birmingham was that bad, they were a difficult team to play thats all.

Yesterdays was just one of those games we often lose 1-0 so i was glad to get out with a point.

we had so many players having off days, how often do you see hughes give the ball away that much? ince took his eye off the ball a number of times and lost control, you can go on, it was happening early on too so i dont even blame wigans tactics for that. I actually think that maybe the players thought it was going to be easy and were to complacent.

 

[Tony Le Mesmer]

53 minutes ago, BobbyD said:

Bizarre self-contradiction 

I don't understand your point.

IMO both the Brum and Wigan games were terrible but we can't really complain much when we're on a great run and everyone is doing so well.

That's perspective.

[ariotofmyown]

23 hours ago, WharfedaleRam said:

Bloody hell! 29,000 half fans all left before the final whistle!

At least they all managed to get away from the ground easily.

[BobbyD]

42 minutes ago, Tony Le Mesmer said:

I don't understand your point.

IMO both the Brum and Wigan games were terrible but we can't really complain much when we're on a great run and everyone is doing so well.

That's perspective.

You've just done it again.....

Neither were terrible games of football, they were both really good championship matches, against teams with different agendas to ours . Just because we didn't score a hatful and thrash the opposition doesn't mean that they didn't have merit.

Terrible is Allepo and bombs going off in Baghdad and Istanbul 

Terrible is not taking four points from six and not conceding at Pride Park in the two games of football you mention

In my book thats perspective, although of course you are entitled to your opinion and I respect that Tony.