Who has the patience?

[uttoxram75]

On the face of it I should be a Nigel Pearson hater.

I was one of the few who believed in Nigel Clough. I actually believed that he was building a good group of players slowly but surely. Players who either cost nowt or were on low wages, or both, but who were capable of competing at the top end of the League as a unit.

We had some good results and some beautiful moments of football in the run up to Clough's sacking. MIllwall and Yeovil away were sublime so when the team kicked on with Steve it was no surprise to me. Those players just needed belief and Steve gave them that.

Steve's second season was blighted by Injuries and him losing his bottle and resorting to safety football.

Clement, on paper, was an inspired choice and I don't blame Mel for appointing him. It didn't work out and Mel ended up financing very expensive signings who did not improve the team.

Darren Wassall was a short term appointment to give Mel time to reflect on everything.

I believe that Mel decided to give Nigel Pearson the job because he felt that a strong man with a track record of not having any interference was the way to go. Its Mel's way of saying, I've had a go and realised I know fook all about managing a football team.

People have said that Mel and Sam are quiet, its because they have a manager who won't take any sh!te from owners or CEO's or whatever they're called.

Lets give Nigel Pearson time to sort the squad out and instill some pride in the players. Chopping and changing ,managers rarely works. We should give NP time to build his own team.

 I'm not bothered if we go up or not. I just want us to start playing well and I can't think of any other available manager who could improve us more than the Ostrich!

Patience chaps, we'll be raite.

Come on you great big beautiful Rams.....

 

 

[EalingRam]

We have come close to going up in the last few years, and close enough that we just needed a little tweak or two to get us over the finish line. I don't really think wholesale changes were necessary, but if thats what is happening then it won't happen quickly. I'm not Pearson's biggest fan, but he has a good record in this division and I don't think anything would be achieved by a knee jerk decision at this stage. I'd be very surprised if we achieve anything more than mid table mediocrity this season though. I hope i'm wrong. 

[May Contain Nuts]

1 hour ago, uttoxram75 said:

Maybe we'll finish a season strongly?

Maybe part of the plan for us to 'do a Leicester' involves us playing in League One for a season with Pearson as manager?

If we're going to copy them, we might as well go all-in on it

[Milk]

Pearson's post game comments hint at starting ALL OVER AGAIN... 

 

 

In other words.. 

 

 

He's no faith in the current squad. 

 

 

In other words... 

 

 

The DERBY way is the Looooooong way. 

 

 

 

[ilkleyram]

1 hour ago, Anon said:

I'm getting a bit sick of reading this to be honest. It did work. 3rd, 8th, 5th and getting to watch entertaining football is not a bad return unless you feel you are entitled to Premier League football. Strange how many of those so desperate to call for patience now weren't prepared to show that patience after two play off finishes in three seasons after years of mid table mediocrity.

This is not aimed at you specifically Anon because a fair few on here are saying the same thing a lot less reasonably, but I'm getting sick of reading how successful our last few seasons have been.

By common consent Clement's team was dull in the main and only just about effective; McLaren's team was more entertaining overall but in the end both teams failed, if the aim of the exercise, and it was and is, was to get promotion.

More than that both sides cracked under the slightest pressure - Wembley, being top, Boro away, Burnley away, Chelsea at home (twice), other teams home and away. When the really big games and opportunities came the players failed and in the last season were less than entertaining, in my view, even playing 433.

Not one of the players in the current squad can complain that Pearson hasn't given them a chance to shine and a chance to persuade him of their worth in the team. Every single one has had a run, has had a manager that has supported them openly. You can argue all you like about systems suiting players but you can't say that 4-3-3 was successful because it failed to get us promotion over three years, and that's the aim. Neither can you argue that despite the chances they have had that almost any of the squad have taken the chance to shine. Some have done better than others but all have been consistently inconsistent - it's not the system that makes players fail to pass the ball accurately or make themselves available for a pass.

Tonight was a good case in point. It was a replica of the two Chelsea games but in those our then head coach was so far up Jose's backside that damage limitation was as far as it was ever going to go. I doubt Pearson wanted or liked the apparent lack of passion/blood and thunder/up and at 'em that he got today; I doubt very much that he prepared them to be like that and I doubt whether he will say any of that in public. But there is a pattern, which is that the group of players on whom we have relied for three seasons or so are fundamentally fragile. They run about, sweat a lot, try hard but ultimately, when the crunch comes, fail. That needs to change and it's nothing to do with the system.

Brian Clough's first full season, when he had to change the attitude throughout the club, was ultimately unsuccessful in that we finished about 19th from memory. His second though, boy was that good. And he didn't have the restriction of transfer windows to work under.

 

[CumbrianRam]

I'd have for more faith if he had the brians of his team in Steve Walsh and Craig Shakesphere but alas he doesn't and we have the staff which LCFC did not want

[May Contain Nuts]

11 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

Not one of the players in the current squad can complain that Pearson hasn't given them a chance to shine and a chance to persuade him of their worth in the team. Every single one has had a run, has had a manager that has supported them openly.

I like your use of the word 'openly',  it's what's behind closed doors that's more important.

Given them a chance to shine? Or given them enough rope to hang themselves with, in a set-up geared to expose their weaknesses, possibly in order to justify his claims that a massive rebuilding job was needed and to make it so that people don't complain when he sells off anyone who he doesn't like the look of, with your post being exactly what he wants people to think/say?

Sacrificing the first 3 months of results in order to get his own way.

Just a suggestion/conspiracy theory!

[ilkleyram]

2 minutes ago, Coconut said:

Given them a chance to shine? Or given them enough rope to hang themselves with, in a set-up geared to expose their weaknesses, possibly in order to justify his claims that a massive rebuilding job was needed and to make it so that people don't complain when he sells off anyone who he doesn't like the look of, with your post being exactly what he wants people to think/say.

 

So who's shone then Coconut? Who hasn't had a chance? What is it about 442 or 4411 or whatever system we play, that stops player in white shirt passing to player in white shirt? And what was it about 433 that meant we couldn't beat our main challengers, couldn't win at Wembley, couldn't hold onto top spot, played dull football for a season and, most of all, failed to get promoted using it, three times?

The one thing Pearson has demonstrably not done is claim that a massive rebuilding exercise was necessary. In fact he consistently suggested the opposite and supported the current crop of players. If you want to believe in conspiracy theories fine. I don't.

[cannable]

2 hours ago, Howard Canitbé said:

I think the managerial appointment he has made makes it relatively obvious without the need for a giant sign outside the stadium that reads BYE BYE 4-3-3.

Which players do you think he doesn't like? 

Staggering how many fans seem to think that 4-3-3 was the style of play. 

A 4-4-2 with Carson, Christie, Keogh, Bucko, Fozzy, Thorne, Hughes, Anya, Martin, Vydra, Ince is pretty much the McClaren system.

[CumbrianRam]

Also Clement 4-3-3 was very different to Mac 4-3-3

[Alph]

I don't think we'll get relegated

This kick and chase **** is rubbish though. Stick Leicester City, pace and energy up your arse. 

Football is the name of the game. Pace should be in the ball. The two things you NEED speed in? The ball and your brain. 

I'm bored of watching thick feckers dribble into opponents with pace and energy. 

Bored of watching the ball kicked into empty space for some bloke to chase. 

It's booooring and crap. 

I want to see the ball moved to move opponents and create space for our players. I want to see some freedom. I want to see one player drop here so this player takes the space he left. I want to see I player stand on the ball in out opponents third while others overlap. I want to see 1 touch and 2 touch. I want to see the ball hit the edge of the area and the team keep it just out of reach of the opponent until a mistake is made or we isolate a defended.  Then! a burst of energy. Then maybe a touch of pace. 

This is like playground stuff to watch. Everyone thinks they're Thierry Henry. "I'm gonna pace him". Quick release him!! Whip it in. Put it in behind.... fookin ******. 

"Defenders hate pace."

Vydra, Weimann, Ince, Wilson, Anya, Cyrus etc etc. If it was true then we'd be able to construct an attack. It's a load of **** like all the other stupid football clichés. 

What defenders hate is what they can't see. And if you're pulling them this way while slipping the finger in the back door then they're not happy little bunnies. That's why "the pass" was invented. Not because football was a bit dull with all the shooting. But to move opponents. Then came all these crazy ideas of shapes and systems and two players, three players, five players all understanding that when he does this then I do that. When he draws him then I go there. And we do it quick to make sure the opponent can't recover. 

I know Pearson isn't stupid. I know he did this at Leicester. I know they played well for him. But we aren't at Leicester. And he's got a team that wasn't recruited to function that way.

So instead of attacking the players for not adapting. I'm blaming Pearson and Co for demanding the everything changes for him.

Will he be good enough long term? There are no guarantees he'll ever find a team as well suited and as skilled as that Leicester team again. 

I'm just a bit fed up of watching it and I refuse that I should have faith he'll get it right.

Why will he?

[Brammie Steve]

Brian Clough managed it but Pearson ain't no Cloughie!

[Tamworthram]

Relegation if we keep NP? Very much doubt it.

Play-offs if we keep him? Not a chance this year

Knee-jerk reaction? Yes but, in many ways understandable. You'd expect it to take time but most of us are dismayed at just how bad we have been.

Keep the faith. 

 

[G STAR RAM]

8 hours ago, Howard Canitbé said:

Tbh it all boils down to whether you are happy to try the same thing year after year and experience the same shortcomings that fail to get us promoted. I personally don't see the point of finishing in the same place every year and being satisfied with it provided we play pretty football in 1/3 games. 

By saying this then you are basically saying that NP is not capable of getting any more out of the current squad than Clement/Wassall did?

I was sold a dream that NPs strength was in man management and he would get 10% extra out of the players...What happened?

In my eyes if his plan from day 1 was to rip apart everything, rather than tweak and improve, he was an awful appointment.

[BathRam72]

9 hours ago, Inglorius said:

Change for changes sake is totally destabilising and futile and has brought us and Pearson to where we are now I don't want instant success but I see little merit in totally deconstructing a formula which has us close for the past few seasons. 

You hit the nail on the head. HAD US CLOSE but no cigar.

The formula maybe wasn't the problem it could simply be the mental stability of the team as a whole. However little things in the back ground (Speculation around Steve moving on, having been there before and failed) can all have an influence.

Last night we witnessed a team under Jurgen Klopp that pretty much tore us apart. When Jurgen Klopp took over Liverpool, he didn't just sit back and hoped it would happen. He pretty much reconstructed and built his own team. AND THIS HAS TAKEN TIME. Be patient and time will tell but one thing is for sure, it rarely happens instantly.

[BathRam72]

9 hours ago, richinspain said:

First Clement and now Pearson have tried to change Derby's formation. Two well respected coaches/managers felt/feel that our 433 wasn't good enough to get us into the premier. I don't know the ins and outs for sacking Clement when he had us in a strong position, and I don't think they're relevant for this conversation, but he was adamant that he wanted to change the formation. Pearson likewise looks as though it's anything but 433. Both however had very big asks, take a top 6 team and make it into a top 2 team. If the 433 was considered unlikely to bring that result then the team needed changing. Some of the 433 players should be able to adapt, after all they wouldn't have played that system throughout the whole of their carreers! But change really does seem necessary, and unfortunately what we are seeing now is the inevitable and must be supported (in both senses of the word) so that hopefully we can come through in the end and claim promotion to the premier. Tonight's game really showed how difficult it would have been if we had managed to get through the playoffs with Wassall, even with some stellar signings. Let's give Pearson time to get things right. He's done it before and hopefully can do again. It's not guarenteed that he will get it right, nothing good in football ever is, but at least he has got the pedigree to get the job done. I'm keeping my fingers crossed any way, and as always will support the team right till the end. COYR.

Good point. I was only thinking this last night. I wondered if we would had this squad that are currently failing to score if we could break our own record in the prem. Let's give it time and hope that what Pearson is doing works and if/when we do go up, we don't embarrass ourselves.

[Millenniumram]

Relegation? Possibly but unlikely, however I don't think he'll get the chance to try to take us down

play offs? Absolutely ******* no chance, it would take a new manager and sheer miracle now

knee jerk reaction? I don't think so, seeing a team with this much quality playing so poorly and so negatively is really sad to see, feels like our whole club is being ruined by negative, backward tactics 

I just can't see how things are going to improve, it's like the players don't believe in Pearson- they seem to be totally devoid of confidence and I just can't see how that's going to change with Pearson at the helm, which is a shame because I thought he was the right man for the job

[Gaspode]

The requirements for a football manager going into a game are pretty basic - set the team up with a formation and tactics that suit the personnel available and motivate your players to perform to the best of their abilities. Last night showed that Pearson has neither of those qualities.....It takes time with a new manager, but the fans need to see progress and they need to see players wanting to give their all - from last nights showing we're going backwards and this is going to be a horribly long and painful season...

After stubbornly forcing the team to play 4-4-2 all season (despite the evident shortcomings of that system with our current squad), he chose last night to abandon that approach and play goodness knows what formation (I spent the whole first half trying to work out who was playing where and other than the keeper and back four I hadn't a clue - and neither had the players - apart from Bent who had evidently been told to stay at least 30 yards from the nearest white shirt). But far worse than the weird formation and apparent lack of tactics was the complete lack of desire and fight - that was one of the most gutless, toothless, clueless performances I've seen in 30+years of watching the team. Sure there was a huge gulf in class, but you compensate for that by working hard and fighting for every ball - with a few exceptions we didn't:

Mitchell - not much he could do for any of the goals - could have come off his line for crosses though

Christie - one of his (becoming too frequent) wobbly games

Keogh - showed the fight needed (but he ain't no captain)

Pearce - horrendous mistake and from then on looked out of his depth

Olsson - poor going forward - and worse defending - worrying for him that we bring in a kid to replace him who looks so much better....

Butterfield - £4.5M and now looks like he'd struggle in Sunday League

Baird - why?

Johnson - given his chance - didn't look like he could be bothered to take it - too 'bulky' and too slow

Hughes - couldn't impose himself on the game - though credit for trying

Weimann - obviously not match fit and it showed - completely off the pace and hardly involved

Bent - Connor Sammon could have offered more....nuff said

I know there were a few missing due to circumstances, but on paper that team could at least have given Liverpool a game - the fact that we didn't asks huge questions of the manager and the players....

 

[ollycutts1982]

I'd like us to give Lowe a run in the team. I think he did well last night. That rawness he would offer might be just what we need. Old son looked terrible last night, granted he wasn't alone. 

[Anon]

7 hours ago, ilkleyram said:

This is not aimed at you specifically Anon because a fair few on here are saying the same thing a lot less reasonably, but I'm getting sick of reading how successful our last few seasons have been.

By common consent Clement's team was dull in the main and only just about effective; McLaren's team was more entertaining overall but in the end both teams failed, if the aim of the exercise, and it was and is, was to get promotion.

Different people have different expectations, so if you and others expect promotion then I can't argue with that. I can say be prepared to be disappointed on a fairly regular basis. By your exacting standards all but one of the last 15 seasons have ended in failure.

7 hours ago, ilkleyram said:

More than that both sides cracked under the slightest pressure - Wembley, being top, Boro away, Burnley away, Chelsea at home (twice), other teams home and away. When the really big games and opportunities came the players failed and in the last season were less than entertaining, in my view, even playing 433.

I love how you classify playing at Wembley in the richest game in world football as "slight pressure".

8 hours ago, ilkleyram said:

Not one of the players in the current squad can complain that Pearson hasn't given them a chance to shine and a chance to persuade him of their worth in the team. Every single one has had a run, has had a manager that has supported them openly. You can argue all you like about systems suiting players but you can't say that 4-3-3 was successful because it failed to get us promotion over three years, and that's the aim. Neither can you argue that despite the chances they have had that almost any of the squad have taken the chance to shine. Some have done better than others but all have been consistently inconsistent - it's not the system that makes players fail to pass the ball accurately or make themselves available for a pass.

Chris Martin, a player with 70 goals in his last three seasons, was given 5/6 games to "prove his worth" to Pearson. Our previous 4 managers all found a way to enable the guy to be effective, Pearson didn't and what's worse was that he barely even tried. What is inconsistent about continuously finishing in and around the play offs? As I said further up, you have your standards, but I think those standards are totally unreasonable.

8 hours ago, ilkleyram said:

Tonight was a good case in point. It was a replica of the two Chelsea games but in those our then head coach was so far up Jose's backside that damage limitation was as far as it was ever going to go. I doubt Pearson wanted or liked the apparent lack of passion/blood and thunder/up and at 'em that he got today; I doubt very much that he prepared them to be like that and I doubt whether he will say any of that in public. But there is a pattern, which is that the group of players on whom we have relied for three seasons or so are fundamentally fragile. They run about, sweat a lot, try hard but ultimately, when the crunch comes, fail. That needs to change and it's nothing to do with the system.

So you're just going to make **** up now? When McClaren's team get rolled by a Premier League team it's due to his sycophancy, but when the exact same thing happens to Pearson it is entirely the players fault? There's only one display of sycophancy here and big Nige is most definitely the recipient. I won't even dignify your attempt to draw parallels between Nigel Pearson and Brian Clough with a response.