Who has the patience?

[Howard Canitbé]

 

Three questions.

Who genuinely thinks we'll get relegated this season, if we don't change from Nigel Pearson over 46 league games?

Who thinks that if Pearson remains as manager, we will improve and finish in or around the play-offs?

Who thinks that the vast majority (or noisy minority) are reacting with exactly the kind of knee-jerk, impatient demands that many claim plague the modern game of football?

My answers:

I don't. 

I do. 

I do. 

 

I don't mind eating humble pie if I'm proved wrong by the end of this season. But as a generally impatient person, I would preach patience. 

EDIT: I'd like to add, that I think football is, by-and-large, a game of relatively fine margins. A mistake there, a drop in confidence in one or several players and these seemingly small issues are magnified in poor runs of form and bad results. Good players don't become bad ones overnight. 

[loweman2]

[RIMBAUD]

All of our players are worse under the current manager.

[Rams forever]

11 minutes ago, Howard Canitbé said:

 

Three questions.

Who genuinely thinks we'll get relegated this season, if we don't change from Nigel Pearson over 46 league games?

Who thinks that if Pearson remains as manager, we will improve and finish in or around the play-offs?

Who thinks that the vast majority (or noisy minority) are reacting with exactly the kind of knee-jerk, impatient demands that many claim plague the modern game of football?

My answers:

I don't. 

I do. 

I do. 

 

I don't mind eating humble pie if I'm proved wrong by the end of this season. But as a generally impatient person, I would preach patience. 

EDIT: I'd like to add, that I think football is, by-and-large, a game of relatively fine margins. A mistake there, a drop in confidence in one or several players and these seemingly small issues are magnified in poor runs of form and bad results. Good players don't become bad ones overnight. 

Totally agree with all your answers,was there in the third division and will be there Saturday it takes time to change things but people seem to want instant success!

[Inglorius]

1 minute ago, Rams forever said:

Totally agree with all your answers,was there in the third division and will be there Saturday it takes time to change things but people seem to want instant success!

Change for changes sake is totally destabilising and futile and has brought us and Pearson to where we are now I don't want instant success but I see little merit in totally deconstructing a formula which has us close for the past few seasons. 

[G STAR RAM]

I don't think we will get relegated.

I don't think we will get near the play offs (hope I am wrong).

I don't think it's a knee jerk reaction to want to have some sort of idea what the plan is and to want to see highly paid individuals play decent football rather than something that is akin to what you could watch at a Sunday park match.

[dajstrawb]

14 minutes ago, Howard Canitbé said:

Good players don't become bad ones overnight. 

Correct. But a change in formation which doesn't suit however can make good players appear to be bad players!

[Howard Canitbé]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

I don't think we will get relegated.

I don't think we will get near the play offs (hope I am wrong).

I don't think it's a knee jerk reaction to want to have some sort of idea what the plan is and to want to see highly paid individuals play decent football rather than something that is akin to what you could watch at a Sunday park match.

The issue for me is that the answer to everything is football seems to boil down to 'sack the current manager'. 

If you, hypothetically, are the chairman of a club and you hire a manager with a track record of a certain system and management style, you don't hire him and then sack him 3 months later for doing exactly what you hired him to do. 

I believe MM has decided the time has come for a more direct approach, and to stop play the pretty, slow build-up game that so many have grown more attached to. We tried it, it didn't work, time for a new approach. It was likely to happen, sooner or later. He's decided that going for another manager that plays that style is flogging a dead horse. We've had 3 in a row now who play that way (Clough, McClaren, Clement, and 4 if you count Wassall's tenure as anything more than a caretaker period). 

Having made that decision as a chairman of your hypothetical club, do you sack the first man you appoint to make the change within 4 months? Not for me. You ride out the storm and the *****, and you allow the new man the time to implement his methods. You don't fire him after he's made 4 signings in one transfer window. 

[G STAR RAM]

Just now, Howard Canitbé said:

The issue for me is that the answer to everything is football seems to boil down to 'sack the current manager'. 

If you, hypothetically, are the chairman of a club and you hire a manager with a track record of a certain system and management style, you don't hire him and then sack him 3 months later for doing exactly what you hired him to do. 

I believe MM has decided the time has come for a more direct approach, and to stop play the pretty, slow build-up game that so many have grown more attached to. We tried it, it didn't work, time for a new approach. It was likely to happen, sooner or later. He's decided that going for another manager that plays that style is flogging a dead horse. We've had 3 in a row now who play that way (Clough, McClaren, Clement, and 4 if you count Wassall's tenure as anything more than a caretaker period). 

Having made that decision as a chairman of your hypothetical club, do you sack the first man you appoint to make the change within 4 months? Not for me. You ride out the storm and the *****, and you allow the new man the time to implement his methods. You don't fire him after he's made 4 signings in one transfer window. 

No knee jerk reaction from me, I don't want him sacked.

I would like to know what he is doing and why. I would like to know why he has, what has shown to be a good footballing team, playing boring percentage football. Why he has decided on a style of play that pretty much does not suit any of the players in the squad he took over. (Would be interested to know why he was so keen on the Derby job when he doesn't seem to like many of the players we had).

If MM has decided on a new approach fine but you would think he would get this via the press somehow after selling the fans his Derby Way vision last season. 

[Howard Canitbé]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

No knee jerk reaction from me, I don't want him sacked.

I would like to know what he is doing and why. I would like to know why he has, what has shown to be a good footballing team, playing boring percentage football. Why he has decided on a style of play that pretty much does not suit any of the players in the squad he took over. (Would be interested to know why he was so keen on the Derby job when he doesn't seem to like many of the players we had).

If MM has decided on a new approach fine but you would think he would get this via the press somehow after selling the fans his Derby Way vision last season. 

I think the managerial appointment he has made makes it relatively obvious without the need for a giant sign outside the stadium that reads BYE BYE 4-3-3.

Which players do you think he doesn't like? 

[ollycutts1982]

No knee jerk reaction from me. We need stability. However at present I cannot see where we have improved and I think the squad is currently weaker. Anyone who has any knowledge of the club knows we had no natural wide players, apart from Camara. I cannot understand why it took until deadline to address this. Without Anya, Vydra and Wilson the squad looked very thin tonight. 

[Tony Le Mesmer]

Play offs absolutely no chance.

Pearson will improve us but how much and if it will satisfy the fanbase remains to be seen.

Relegated no chance. Mid table though IMO.

It's a season of transition and learning and its going to be bumpy. Just didn't think it would THIS bumpy so soon that's all.

[richinspain]

3 minutes ago, dajstrawb said:

Correct. But a change in formation which doesn't suit however can make good players appear to be bad players!

First Clement and now Pearson have tried to change Derby's formation. Two well respected coaches/managers felt/feel that our 433 wasn't good enough to get us into the premier. I don't know the ins and outs for sacking Clement when he had us in a strong position, and I don't think they're relevant for this conversation, but he was adamant that he wanted to change the formation. Pearson likewise looks as though it's anything but 433. Both however had very big asks, take a top 6 team and make it into a top 2 team. If the 433 was considered unlikely to bring that result then the team needed changing. Some of the 433 players should be able to adapt, after all they wouldn't have played that system throughout the whole of their carreers! But change really does seem necessary, and unfortunately what we are seeing now is the inevitable and must be supported (in both senses of the word) so that hopefully we can come through in the end and claim promotion to the premier. Tonight's game really showed how difficult it would have been if we had managed to get through the playoffs with Wassall, even with some stellar signings. Let's give Pearson time to get things right. He's done it before and hopefully can do again. It's not guarenteed that he will get it right, nothing good in football ever is, but at least he has got the pedigree to get the job done. I'm keeping my fingers crossed any way, and as always will support the team right till the end. COYR.

[Howard Canitbé]

1 minute ago, ollycutts1982 said:

No knee jerk reaction from me. We need stability. However at present I cannot see where we have improved and I think the squad is currently weaker. Anyone who has any knowledge of the club knows we had no natural wide players, apart from Camara. I cannot understand why it took until deadline to address this. Without Anya, Vydra and Wilson the squad looked very thin tonight. 

But the point is, this is the last game where we will be without those players. Come on mate, you can't expect him to not sign his targets simply because they will be cup-tied in a game we're unlikely to win in a competition we're unlikely to win. 

[Anon]

14 minutes ago, Howard Canitbé said:

I believe MM has decided the time has come for a more direct approach, and to stop play the pretty, slow build-up game that so many have grown more attached to. We tried it, it didn't work, time for a new approach.

I'm getting a bit sick of reading this to be honest. It did work. 3rd, 8th, 5th and getting to watch entertaining football is not a bad return unless you feel you are entitled to Premier League football. Strange how many of those so desperate to call for patience now weren't prepared to show that patience after two play off finishes in three seasons after years of mid table mediocrity.

[Philmycock]

Wrong manager brought in by a clueless owner who just goes along with whatever the fans want on social media. So much for the Derby way, we are now playing the dullest football since Jewell.

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, Howard Canitbé said:

I think the managerial appointment he has made makes it relatively obvious without the need for a giant sign outside the stadium that reads BYE BYE 4-3-3.

Which players do you think he doesn't like? 

I said on another thread I think he made the appointment based on fan reaction, however, I don't remember anyone saying Pearson needed to come and rip everything apart.

Shackell, Johnson, Ince, Martin, Russell

[Howard Canitbé]

Just now, Anon said:

I'm getting a bit sick of reading this to be honest. I did work. 3rd, 8th, 5th and getting to watch entertaining football is not a bad return unless you feel you are entitled to Premier League football. Strange how those so desperate to call for patience now weren't prepared to show that patience after two play off finishes in three seasons after years of mid table mediocrity.

I was disappointed to see Clough sacked as I was pleased that the club had shown patience to a manager and allowed him to time to implement his ideas on the club. Everything from top to bottom was Clough at the time of his sacking. 

If you were happy with finishing 3rd, 8th and then 5th, then I assume you've had no complaints at the resolution of the previous 3 seasons? It's very easy to say it was better back then with the benefit of hindsight.

[ollycutts1982]

4 minutes ago, Howard Canitbé said:

But the point is, this is the last game where we will be without those players. Come on mate, you can't expect him to not sign his targets simply because they will be cup-tied in a game we're unlikely to win in a competition we're unlikely to win. 

The point I was trying to make if we lose one for a period of time, especially Vydra then we are in bother as we lack cover. 

[Howard Canitbé]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I said on another thread I think he made the appointment based on fan reaction, however, I don't remember anyone saying Pearson needed to come and rip everything apart.

Shackell, Johnson, Ince, Martin, Russell

I think he fired Clement on fan reaction, I think he had plenty of time to consider his next appointment in Pearson and that Wassall was never a permanent solution. All conjecture of course. 

Russell started the majority of the games before the international break, if I remember correctly, and didn't do well. Him aside, would you agree that the attitude of the others has been called into question on occasion? It appears Pearson agrees.