Who has the patience?

[eddie]

7 minutes ago, Anon said:

So you're just going to make **** up now? When McClaren's team get rolled by a Premier League team it's due to his sycophancy, but when the exact same thing happens to Pearson it is entirely the players fault? There's only one display of sycophancy here and big Nige is most definitely the recipient. I won't even dignify your attempt to draw parallels between Nigel Pearson and Brian Clough with a response.

At the moment, it might not be wise to draw parallels between Nigel Pearson and Nigel Clough.

Or Phil Brown, for that matter.

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, BathRam72 said:

Good point. I was only thinking this last night. I wondered if we would had this squad that are currently failing to score if we could break our own record in the prem. Let's give it time and hope that what Pearson is doing works and if/when we do go up, we don't embarrass ourselves.

Pearsons recruits so far look like they'll fit right in! I have no confidence in him finding a squad of players that would keep us in the Prem. Of course I'm also not convinced he'll get us up there so I guess it doesn't matter!

I do wonder what players we'll be left with by the time Pearson's dismantled the 'old squad'...

[ITSD]

6 hours ago, Alpha said:

I don't think we'll get relegated

This kick and chase **** is rubbish though. Stick Leicester City, pace and energy up your arse............

 

Didn't quote the whole thing so as not to clog up the board, but this is a fantastic post and I agree wholeheartedly.

[Zag zig]

7 hours ago, Alpha said:

I don't think we'll get relegated

This kick and chase **** is rubbish though......

 

So instead of attacking the players for not adapting. I'm blaming Pearson and Co for demanding the everything changes for him.

Will he be good enough long term? There are no guarantees he'll ever find a team as well suited and as skilled as that Leicester team again. 

I'm just a bit fed up of watching it and I refuse that I should have faith he'll get it right.

Why will he?

Top post Alpha, first lines two sum up my feelings so far AND yes a good Manager would adapt to the squad he inherited rather than try and get them play in a manner they are struggling with.

My difference with you is I am just prepared to give him time, see what evolves when gets more of his own players in, whether this screws us or not is Mel's gamble, but if we are not going down, he (like any other Manager) deserves time to make his blueprint work, no matter how fed up watching I like you feel.

Watching them at Bristol, I don't think Anya, Vydra are simply kick and rush players, that's why with maybe a few more in January, Pearson may get it to work. I've not got total confidence at present but I'll give him a proper chance myself.

[europia]

2 minutes ago, Zag zig said:

Top post Alpha, first lines two sum up my feelings so far AND yes a good Manager would adapt to the squad he inherited rather than try and get them play in a manner they are struggling with.

 

Not so sure, but this alludes to a interesting situation:

The chairman & Sam Rush had indicated that they were going to take time to make an appointment as a permanent replacement for Clement. So they had a lot of time to consider the options and assess NP and his credentials. One would have thought that he would have been asked about his strategy? If so, why would he have hidden his desire to build a team to play his style of football? So assuming he told MM & SR of his plans, they must have bought into it. If on the other hand he told them that he would be able to adapt to the existing squad or mould it into his type of team, then he is already in danger of going the same way as Clement, who was sacked for not sticking to the agreed plan. According to the chairman.

[Zag zig]

2 minutes ago, europia said:

Not so sure, but this alludes to a interesting situation:

The chairman & Sam Rush had indicated that they were going to take time to make an appointment as a permanent replacement for Clement. So they had a lot of time to consider the options and assess NP and his credentials. One would have thought that he would have been asked about his strategy? If so, why would he have hidden his desire to build a team to play his style of football? So assuming he told MM & SR of his plans, they must have bought into it. If on the other hand he told them that he would be able to adapt to the existing squad or mould it into his type of team, then he is already in danger of going the same way as Clement, who was sacked for not sticking to the agreed plan. According to the chairman.

Can't disagree but on that basis can't judge either, as we simply don't know what the conversations are. My line of thought is that given Pearson had time to do his homework and explain his plans, you would have thought he had reservations about Martin fitting into a 4-4-2 or not being the speedy type he prefers, so my headscratcher is why didn't he bring a Vydra type sooner?

Would have preferred to have started with these new players sooner, it feels like we wasted 6 games to implement his plan.

[Sparkle]

2 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

Relegation? Possibly but unlikely, however I don't think he'll get the chance to try to take us down

play offs? Absolutely ******* no chance, it would take a new manager and sheer miracle now

knee jerk reaction? I don't think so, seeing a team with this much quality playing so poorly and so negatively is really sad to see, feels like our whole club is being ruined by negative, backward tactics 

I just can't see how things are going to improve, it's like the players don't believe in Pearson- they seem to be totally devoid of confidence and I just can't see how that's going to change with Pearson at the helm, which is a shame because I thought he was the right man for the job

Hit the nail on the head there with -'it's like the players don't believe in Pearson' 

which means a squad turnover of around 15/16 players which is extremely poor 

[SusieB]

Relegated No.

Playoffs /. It is possible if players start believing this can happen.

Come on guys we are 9 games in this Sat, still in September.

Let us get behind the team and lift them out of this rut. We loyal supporters love our football team through thick and thin, good times and bad. We can do this!!!!  Cmon u Rams!!!! X

[europia]

3 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

 

I just can't see how things are going to improve, it's like the players don't believe in Pearson- they seem to be totally devoid of confidence and I just can't see how that's going to change with Pearson at the helm, which is a shame because I thought he was the right man for the job

Isn't it getting a bit tedious, constant reference to the whims of these so called professional sportsmen? We have heard that they were under achieving under Clough... couldn't play under Clement....weren't up for it when it mattered with Wassall...now they don't believe in Pearson?? How about they get out on the pitch and bust a gut for their employer and the fans. Surely it's the least one can ask for.

[Alph]

20 minutes ago, Zag zig said:

Top post Alpha, first lines two sum up my feelings so far AND yes a good Manager would adapt to the squad he inherited rather than try and get them play in a manner they are struggling with.

My difference with you is I am just prepared to give him time, see what evolves when gets more of his own players in, whether this screws us or not is Mel's gamble, but if we are not going down, he (like any other Manager) deserves time to make his blueprint work, no matter how fed up watching I like you feel.

Watching them at Bristol, I don't think Anya, Vydra are simply kick and rush players, that's why with maybe a few more in January, Pearson may get it to work. I've not got total confidence at present but I'll give him a proper chance myself.

Honestly Zag, I don't want him sacked. I only moan about him when I'm sticking up for players and previous seasons. 

And I do bite when I hear anything about Leicester too. It's irrelevant. And he got promoted from this division once and survived in the PL. That's it. He didn't mastermind the Premier League title. He hadn't proven himself any more than Paul Jewell. 

BUT now he's here then he has to be allowed to get on with it. Just can't stand everything being blamed on everything but him. It's crap right now and it's him that's done it. It wasn't this poor before him. Just can't turn a blind eye to it. Won't say a word against him if people don't keep making out he's some genius being held back by donkeys

[Sparkle]

13 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Honestly Zag, I don't want him sacked. I only moan about him when I'm sticking up for players and previous seasons. 

And I do bite when I hear anything about Leicester too. It's irrelevant. And he got promoted from this division once and survived in the PL. That's it. He didn't mastermind the Premier League title. He hadn't proven himself any more than Paul Jewell. 

BUT now he's here then he has to be allowed to get on with it. Just can't stand everything being blamed on everything but him. It's crap right now and it's him that's done it. It wasn't this poor before him. Just can't turn a blind eye to it. Won't say a word against him if people don't keep making out he's some genius being held back by donkeys

Hmm, you correct he achieved exactly what Paul Jewell achieved_ goodness me ! 

[ilkleyram]

2 hours ago, Anon said:

Different people have different expectations, so if you and others expect promotion then I can't argue with that. I can say be prepared to be disappointed on a fairly regular basis. By your exacting standards all but one of the last 15 seasons have ended in failure.

It doesn't matter one jot what I or anyone else on this forum thinks (and if you reread what I wrote I didn't state my personal view), the fact is that the owner and everyone connected with the club has made clear that promotion is the goal, with a few add ons such as a percentage of home grown players and the like. 

 

2 hours ago, Anon said:

I love how you classify playing at Wembley in the richest game in world football as "slight pressure".

You are (deliberately, probably) distracting from the point, which is that whenever the team has come under pressure, needs a result, has to break down a resolute defence, over the last few years they have come up short.  You can make all the excuses for them that you like but that is unfortunately the case.  There is in my view a mental toughness missing in the team and squad that many describe as a lack of leadership.  It's a view that has often been expressed on here which I agree with, that we need some steel in the side.  Brian found it with Willie Carlin and Archie; Jim with van der Laan, Stimac and others.  I don't think we have it. Perhaps you do. Fair enough.

 

2 hours ago, Anon said:

Chris Martin, a player with 70 goals in his last three seasons, was given 5/6 games to "prove his worth" to Pearson. Our previous 4 managers all found a way to enable the guy to be effective, Pearson didn't and what's worse was that he barely even tried. What is inconsistent about continuously finishing in and around the play offs? As I said further up, you have your standards, but I think those standards are totally unreasonable.

Yep, he was given those games, and so were others.  And I was sad to see him go just as over many years I have been sad to see others, better and worse than CM go, but go, in the end, they all do.  But he had had a chance and some players fit in with managers and some don't, often for reasons that we will not know about.  I have been to most of the games from pre-season and for whatever reason CM did not look like scoring or was particularly playing well (and not alone in that).  Looking back he went through a purple patch with McLaren but he struggled with Clement last year - partly injury, partly relationship I suspect (but don't know).  So over the last few months - last season and this - you can hardly make a very strong case for him continuing to be the focal point of the attack.  I liked him; I would have kept him (subject to stuff we don't know about) but he hasn't been in form for some months 

 

2 hours ago, Anon said:

So you're just going to make **** up now? When McClaren's team get rolled by a Premier League team it's due to his sycophancy, but when the exact same thing happens to Pearson it is entirely the players fault? There's only one display of sycophancy here and big Nige is most definitely the recipient. I won't even dignify your attempt to draw parallels between Nigel Pearson and Brian Clough with a response.

OK I'm making it up.  You don't think that SM was in awe of Jose and all matey with him.  I do.  And I came to that conclusion on the basis of what I saw and heard at the time.  My view is that rubbed off in part on the players and, incidentally reinforced a lack of leadership and a type of performance. Twice.  I don't think Pearson was like that with Klopp - respectful of them as a team at the top of the top league, stuffed out with good players, spent huge sums of money (and a year plus on in their development from a pretty abject team by their standards) - but not in the same way as SM was with Jose.  I don't think Pearson is like that and it was one of the reasons why I was disappointed last night.  I'm not being sycophantic but unless you know him (I don't), you've clearly reached a different conclusion from me on the same information.  Your choice, I don't agree.

And regarding my parallel with Brian's time you choose to miss the point.  I wasn't comparing Pearson and Brian I was comparing their seasons.  I could equally have chosen Jim or Arthur.  I don't know how old you are but I was around in Brian's first season and there was discontent about how the team had done and many a muttering about whether Brian was good manager - we finished lower in his first season than we had in the season before; Jim was not a popular appointment at the beginning and became even less so after the start he had; Arthur didn't get us up from Division 3 first time around.  The point I was making was that sometimes you have to go through a bad period, or season, when you're changing things, but sometimes it ends up very well. And in writing that I know very well that it can also turn out badly.  Only time and hindsight will tell.

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, ilkleyram said:

So over the last few months - last season and this - you can hardly make a very strong case for him continuing to be the focal point of the attack.  I liked him; ... but he hasn't been in form for some months...

Is this Vydra you're talking about?

[ram1964]

19 hours ago, RIMBAUD said:

All of our players are worse under the current manager.

Not true Carson scored a cracker the other week! 

[Inglorius]

10 hours ago, BathRam72 said:

You hit the nail on the head. HAD US CLOSE but no cigar.

The formula maybe wasn't the problem it could simply be the mental stability of the team as a whole. However little things in the back ground (Speculation around Steve moving on, having been there before and failed) can all have an influence.

Last night we witnessed a team under Jurgen Klopp that pretty much tore us apart. When Jurgen Klopp took over Liverpool, he didn't just sit back and hoped it would happen. He pretty much reconstructed and built his own team. AND THIS HAS TAKEN TIME. Be patient and time will tell but one thing is for sure, it rarely happens instantly.

You misunderstand me I am prepared to be patient but not wait for Pearson to perform open heart surgery on our club when all was needed was a few sticking plasters. 

[RoyMac5]

12 hours ago, BathRam72 said:

Last night we witnessed a team under Jurgen Klopp that pretty much tore us apart. When Jurgen Klopp took over Liverpool, he didn't just sit back and hoped it would happen. He pretty much reconstructed and built his own team. AND THIS HAS TAKEN TIME. Be patient and time will tell but one thing is for sure, it rarely happens instantly.

You could see that Klopp had a positive effect on Liverpool as soon as he took over.

What can we see happening with Pearson? It's a bloody mess!

[Howard Canitbé]

21 hours ago, cannable said:

Staggering how many fans seem to think that 4-3-3 was the style of play. 

A 4-4-2 with Carson, Christie, Keogh, Bucko, Fozzy, Thorne, Hughes, Anya, Martin, Vydra, Ince is pretty much the McClaren system.

I realise that it's not all about the formation but for the purposes of simplicity I called it 4-3-3, as we now play a 4-4-2 (mostly) and are much more direct and pacey, without the slow build-up play. 

However I don't think it's as huge a change as a lot of people seem to think. The only significant differences for me is the lack of a single defensive midfielder, and lack of a focal point in attack (i.e. CM). In effect Pearson has decided not to focus the entire success of the team on two crucial positions/players, and instead is trying to spread the load throughout the starting XI, with different approaches. 

One criticism of us before was that we were too one-dimensional. That will change under Pearson. 

[ITSD]

12 hours ago, Howard Canitbé said:

One criticism of us before was that we were too one-dimensional. That will change under Pearson. 

Correct. We are now zero-dimensional.

[oldtimeram]

negative dimensional more like