Kernow Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 1 minute ago, cannable said: Wes Morgan just won the division To be fair he is international standard. He has 29 caps for Jamaica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Kernow said: To be fair he is international standard. He has 29 caps for Jamaica. Don't tell 'Arry that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 549 pages of Toddy 'alternative facts' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 9 hours ago, hintonsboots said: Bit of a weak argument Kernow, saying you don't need pace to be successful in the Prem and then using Vardy as an example. CM has been a great player for Derby, but we need to move on. His lack of pace and movement and constant falling over which refs to state the obvious don't fall for anymore, means he won't cut it in the top flight. Things have moved on since the days of Grant Holt, the Prem is awash with dosh and most teams have quality defenders, often international standard. Do you think CM has excelled for Scotland against top quality defenders ? He's not been playing against top quality defenders for Scotland. He's played against some that wouldn't get in Championship sides. The idea that you need pace to succeed in the PL is rubbish. For every Vardy there's a Shearer. For every Defoe there's a Kane. From Lukaku, Carroll and Zlatan to Aguero and Sanchez there is zero evidence that a certain attribute is required Just look at the all time PL top scorers list. You've got fast, slow, tall, small, fat, thin, strong, weak, young and old. I'm not arsed about this Chris Martin nonsense. I can't believe 500 pages and people are still going on. Only come here to see if there's insults. But this is a different subject that bothers me. "Is Joe Bloggs PL quality" Two player that look fine in the middle of the PL. Hendrick and Grant were not good enough for Derby not so long back. Vardy scored more last season than when Leicester won the Championship. Troy Deeney was only ever a top end Championship forward. Nothing to rave about. Now he's probably going to finish his career in the top flight because he's played very well. Did anyone have Lingard down as a Man United and England player for the future when he was here. There's no rule. Players fit teams. It's teams that are good enough for the league. Nobody can say Lukaku is a highly mobile target. He's clever, he's strong, he's a good footballer. But running is not his strong point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sheriff Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, Alpha said: He's not been playing against top quality defenders for Scotland. He's played against some that wouldn't get in Championship sides. The idea that you need pace to succeed in the PL is rubbish. For every Vardy there's a Shearer. For every Defoe there's a Kane. From Lukaku, Carroll and Zlatan to Aguero and Sanchez there is zero evidence that a certain attribute is required Just look at the all time PL top scorers list. You've got fast, slow, tall, small, fat, thin, strong, weak, young and old. I'm not arsed about this Chris Martin nonsense. I can't believe 500 pages and people are still going on. Only come here to see if there's insults. But this is a different subject that bothers me. "Is Joe Bloggs PL quality" Two player that look fine in the middle of the PL. Hendrick and Grant were not good enough for Derby not so long back. Vardy scored more last season than when Leicester won the Championship. Troy Deeney was only ever a top end Championship forward. Nothing to rave about. Now he's probably going to finish his career in the top flight because he's played very well. Did anyone have Lingard down as a Man United and England player for the future when he was here. There's no rule. Players fit teams. It's teams that are good enough for the league. Nobody can say Lukaku is a highly mobile target. He's clever, he's strong, he's a good footballer. But running is not his strong point. Martin is slower then all of those and has less mobility. He certainly Is not prem quality, I think even the Martin lovers will admit that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 7 minutes ago, Simsy said: Martin is slower then all of those and has less mobility. He certainly Is not prem quality, I think even the Martin lovers will admit that. Nope...easily prem quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True Ram Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Nobody knows if he's prem quality or not only time will tell if he ever gets there I hope he is at Derby when he does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True Ram Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, True Ram said: Nobody knows if he's prem quality or not only time will tell if he ever gets there I hope he is at Derby when he does I forgot to say I don't love him Or hate him He is just a bloody good footballer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 46 minutes ago, Alpha said: He's not been playing against top quality defenders for Scotland. He's played against some that wouldn't get in Championship sides. The idea that you need pace to succeed in the PL is rubbish. For every Vardy there's a Shearer. For every Defoe there's a Kane. From Lukaku, Carroll and Zlatan to Aguero and Sanchez there is zero evidence that a certain attribute is required Just look at the all time PL top scorers list. You've got fast, slow, tall, small, fat, thin, strong, weak, young and old. I'm not arsed about this Chris Martin nonsense. I can't believe 500 pages and people are still going on. Only come here to see if there's insults. But this is a different subject that bothers me. "Is Joe Bloggs PL quality" Two player that look fine in the middle of the PL. Hendrick and Grant were not good enough for Derby not so long back. Vardy scored more last season than when Leicester won the Championship. Troy Deeney was only ever a top end Championship forward. Nothing to rave about. Now he's probably going to finish his career in the top flight because he's played very well. Did anyone have Lingard down as a Man United and England player for the future when he was here. There's no rule. Players fit teams. It's teams that are good enough for the league. Nobody can say Lukaku is a highly mobile target. He's clever, he's strong, he's a good footballer. But running is not his strong point. THIS needs repeating on every thread! Good start to my morning to read such a reasoned post. Thanks Alpha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Alpha said: He's not been playing against top quality defenders for Scotland. He's played against some that wouldn't get in Championship sides. The idea that you need pace to succeed in the PL is rubbish. For every Vardy there's a Shearer. For every Defoe there's a Kane. From Lukaku, Carroll and Zlatan to Aguero and Sanchez there is zero evidence that a certain attribute is required Just look at the all time PL top scorers list. You've got fast, slow, tall, small, fat, thin, strong, weak, young and old. I'm not arsed about this Chris Martin nonsense. I can't believe 500 pages and people are still going on. Only come here to see if there's insults. But this is a different subject that bothers me. "Is Joe Bloggs PL quality" Two player that look fine in the middle of the PL. Hendrick and Grant were not good enough for Derby not so long back. Vardy scored more last season than when Leicester won the Championship. Troy Deeney was only ever a top end Championship forward. Nothing to rave about. Now he's probably going to finish his career in the top flight because he's played very well. Did anyone have Lingard down as a Man United and England player for the future when he was here. There's no rule. Players fit teams. It's teams that are good enough for the league. Nobody can say Lukaku is a highly mobile target. He's clever, he's strong, he's a good footballer. But running is not his strong point. To be fair Shearer was fast before he got old like all strikers, go re-watch his goals. Lukaku is a devastatingly powerful runner as well... I get the point you are making and kind of agree but some of the examples are a bit off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Simsy said: Martin is slower then all of those and has less mobility. He certainly Is not prem quality, I think even the Martin lovers will admit that. I know what you are saying but it is unfair to comment on anybody until they have had a real chance to prove it, the swede up front at Man U is 35 and not quick on the ground but he certainly can play, and on a lesser note non league jake Buxton wasn't good enough for us in many eyes but he proved he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 18 minutes ago, tomsdubs said: To be fair Shearer was fast before he got old like all strikers, go re-watch his goals. Lukaku is a devastatingly powerful runner as well... I get the point you are making and kind of agree but some of the examples are a bit off. Shearer was good because not only did he have pace, he could head, he could dribble, he could cross a ball, he could take set pieces and also his goals ratio per chances given - has never been bettered. He only lost his pace at 30 like most do. Again Aguero is quick and the same as Sanchez low centre of gravity destroys big slow defenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, toddy said: Shearer was good because not only did he have pace, he could head, he could dribble, he could cross a ball, he could take set pieces and also his goals ratio per chances given - has never been bettered. He only lost his pace at 30 like most do. Shearer had everything, the ultimate goal scorer. Imagine if he opted for Man Utd under Fergie instead of Newcastle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Simsy said: Martin is slower then all of those and has less mobility. He certainly Is not prem quality, I think even the Martin lovers will admit that. Agreed, I would add one of the problems of playing Martin has a holding player is he does become too static and it becomes even worse when opponents place two CB's on him. Hence all the comment last season regarding Martin falling over and just try's flick on's. Mobility is an issue with him and every season it will get worse as the slower him becomes........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hintonsboots Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 44 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: THIS needs repeating on every thread! Good start to my morning to read such a reasoned post. Thanks Alpha. I would wager that Lukaku would break the tape in a 100m race before CM got out of the blocks. Why haven't any Prem clubs come in for CM by now if he would be so successful at that level ? I also think Crissy is a superb footballer but at championship standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, tomsdubs said: Shearer had everything, the ultimate goal scorer. Imagine if he opted for Man Utd under Fergie instead of Newcastle! The best ever striker in the prem, I watched Shearer's 260 premiership goals on Sky over Christmas - Fantastic striker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdave85 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, toddy said: The best ever striker in the prem, I watched Shearer's 260 premiership goals on Sky over Christmas - Fantastic striker! The SAS partnership was a thing of beauty. Most prolific - Shearer, best ever? For me it was Henry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 10 minutes ago, mrdave85 said: The SAS partnership was a thing of beauty. Most prolific - Shearer, best ever? For me it was Henry. Henry was class but not sure as prolific as Shearer [goals per game 0.6]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackworthRamIsGod Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Henry was class, but at the end of his career, cheating against ireland as he did, it kinda took some of that VA Va Voom away. Shearer was quality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdave85 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 17 minutes ago, toddy said: Henry was class but not sure as prolific as Shearer [goals per game 0.6]. That's literally what I said dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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