How soon is TOO soon to judge Clement?

[duncanjwitham]

8 minutes ago, StaffsRam said:

Of course we could go out and spend another shed-load of £££ when we went up but I thought we didn't want to do that, instead, building the nucleus of the team down here, and then adding to it in a few key positions maybe once we were up.

Bottom line, don't think we're ready. I don't think Clement's ready, and I don't think that the squad is ready. What remains to be seen is whether either of them ever will be.

But given the FFP situation, it's very unlikely we spend this kind of money again in the near future (unless we get promoted, of course) - with the payments/amortisation spread out over the next few seasons, we'll still be paying for this lot in 2018.  We're stuck with what we've got, and what we've got is a disorganised mess with no obvious strongest XI and not even an obvious way to assemble a strong XI to get the best out of what we do have.

All the people saying it's too early, well maybe it is, but in 6 months I would have hoped to see some improvement in some areas.  But I can't name a single aspect of Clement's management where we're better than last season.  Not one.  Even the improvements at the back have dropped off at the slightest sign of adversity.  It's okay saying give him time, but you have to see some sign of progress to persevere with, and I don't see anything.

I've got nothing against Clement, I just think he was completely the wrong type of appointment.  After last season, we had a strong squad with a strong footballing identity, but maybe a bit of a soft underbelly and lacking cover in certain areas.  When we decided that we were going to 'go for it' spending wise, the requirements for a manager should have been obvious - an experienced manager, who knows this league inside out, who plays a roughly similar style to what we were playing before but could maybe tighten us up a bit at the back.  Someone who could take what we had, make incremental improvements to it and just kick us on a bit.  Obviously there's no guarantee that that ideal manager exists, but we should have got as close as we could.

Instead, we've got Clement, who knows very little about management and about this league and wants to play a completely different style of football that suits very few of the players that were already here.  So we've spent a huge amount of money getting in some new players, (presumably) to suit what Clement wants, leaving us with a weird mess of a squad that doesn't suit any playing style.  All of the team spirit that was instilled by Clough and McClaren seems to have evaporated, all of the slick football is gone, half of the players don't seem to have any idea what they are supposed to be doing and the rest are awfully out of form, but still get picked every week.

Personally, I bought into the GSE sensible, slow-build plan.  I was happy to see us getting our house in order, building a squad of young, hungry players, getting academy players through into the first team.  It took 5 years of fairly steady improvement under Clough, but with McClaren coming in and kicking us on, it seemed worth it.  All of the ground work that had been done over the years was obvious to see.  At the moment it feels like inside of 6 months and £30m, we've wrecked everything.  Those 5 years of work seem completely wasted.  It honestly feels like we're back where we were under Jewell, and we're going to spend the next 5 years clearing out the deadwood and building again.

And we still don't have sodding cover for Martin and Thorne.

[Spanish]

Thing is this is a points blip rather than a performance one, no exactly been dominant have we even on the unbeaten runs.  The team doesn't appear to have any swagger and if we don't get into the box then we aren't going to create much luck.

[robglosta]

1 hour ago, DcFc Dyycheee said:

I wouldn't care if he was sacked, the football we've played this season has been boring. Swip swap, swip swap, swip swap every week has not worked. Hull away, Wolves at home, the only 2 complete performances I can remember.

Completely sucked all the attacking fluidity out the players. It's like they don't know what to do when the ball enters the final third. Don't know if this is a confidence issue or a tactical one. Every goal we seem to score now is a worldie. For saying we have players like Martin and Ince, this is worrying
 
Defending has been improved, but I think that's just down to the personnel . Thorne in front of back 4 and Shackell will obviously help, throw Carson into that as well. We'd have arguably won the league last season if we had them 3 players..

Going to have to be a turn around in attacking play if we want top 2, even play offs. Because now, we're starting to concede goals again.
 

This.  Clement needs to start showing he has the answers to the questions that have been asked over the last 5 or 6 games.  At the moment, his solutions seem to be largely guess work or making an unnecessary amount of changes.  

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that we still have the attacking ability to put teams to the sword and go on a run, but it is up to the manager to set the balance between attacking intent and being solid.  

I am never disappointed to see us win, but some of the victories this season have been far from convincing (and largely due to being tight defensively) but even that edge seems to be fading fast.   

[CornwallRam]

Here's an interesting question, and one which I'm a little uncomfortable with even thinking of; do we actually want Clement to succeed?

I know on one level it's a completely ridiculous question. We all want Derby County to win every match and success for the club is success for the manager. But what I mean is that Clement's style, to me at least, is just boring. Assuming that caution is actually his aim and not just the players inability to make his real system work, if he sorts the current blip out and the results start to improve, do we want a successful side that is the footballing equivalent of an accountant?

At this point I'm just not convinced that I do. I know that I'm hypocritical enough to completely change my mind again once we start wining and just enjoy the success.But I can't help craving some excitement at the football, as well as the league table.

[Sparkle]

I don't like constantly changing managers but when the on field performances are frequently poor then it becomes a worry. I would have personally liked to have seen warbaton given a shot at the job on the basis of his attacking style last season at Brentford ( I like attacking entertaining football) but PC needs to learn that you have to attack and overpower teams in this league to accumulate points and only sometimes play a game plan of you beat us if you can.

PC needs to understand that this is a bang average league this season with no top performers that I have seen but his style of play seems to be sit back and wait for somebody to do something good then hang on to it which maybe is appropriate at certain times but not every week. When we field a team that plays really well at hull he then changes it Why?

his transfer activity is interesting 

Bent and wieman clearly do not seem to be his picks or fit in

ince - frustrating as we seem to try to accommodate him at the expense of balance

 Johnson- six million pound lead weight slowing us down ( occasionally useful so far)

shackel - fine (would have won the league last year with him and Thorne available)

Blackman - can't see that he is an improvement on anyone

Butterfield - doing ok and shows promise team wise but would he be in a side if Hughes was fit?

Baird - cover only please

Camara - early days but he does show promise, he has to be more involved in team selection as he crosses from the by line and we need someone interested at the far post to put it in the net (anyone available? May as well buy Matt smith!)

[satty atwal]

What a thoroughly depressing read  ffs 5 games its been.... were flying before then.... only concern for me is his love for blackman and johnson.... doesnt seem 2 want to drop either when bryson and weimann should be starting 

[Spanish]

'flying'? really is that what everybody thinks?

[Wolfie]

16 minutes ago, Spanish said:

'flying'? really is that what everybody thinks?

Well, we were top of the league. Is that not flyingy enough?

[The_Sheriff]

We hand picked clement we have to stick with him. Stability is so important and i genuinely believe he will come good. We are in the play offs at the minute and if i think for him to have his first season as a number 1 if we finish in the play offs then thats not too bad.

When we appointed him i said i would give him 2 seasons to get us promoted and i stand by that as a minimum even though it does frustrate me no end he doesn't play bent or wiemann.

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, MuespachRam said:

what I am saying is that anyone at all should be able to get a team out of this poor division with 30 million to spend. anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.

Does that take into account that the 3 teams who have been relegated have probably already spent that in getting their teams up? 

[Alph]

Thought most of you were glad to get rid of clueless Mac for a man that has more than a plan A.

A manager of a shambolic defence?

Now the defence (apart from a blip) has been quite strong. You want a great attack again now?

Russell is a winger. no matter what he claims. He's played as a striker and he was pooh. 3 managers in a row used him wide. 

Ince is a winger. No matter what he claims. The best football of his career has been played on the wing.

Weimann and Bent were here when Clement was boarding the plane.

So you want a great defence and a superb free flowing attack in a team that never changes but at the same time has plan A-Z.

Who's the right man then? 

[MuespachRam]

7 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Does that take into account that the 3 teams who have been relegated have probably already spent that in getting their teams up? 

Leicester spent 23 million on their team and are currently sat where..?

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

Leicester spent 23 million on their team and are currently sat where..?

So you are saying that teams can get promoted without spending £30m?

 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Sounds a bit weird saying this after we lost 4-1 but all in all the first half last night was hugely encouraging. Whether it be Mel & his millions or PC & his tactics we were head & shoulders above Burnley. Play that way again for the next 10 games and we will have 30 more points.

[rynny]

21 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Thought most of you were glad to get rid of clueless Mac for a man that has more than a plan A.

A manager of a shambolic defence?

Now the defence (apart from a blip) has been quite strong. You want a great attack again now?

Russell is a winger. no matter what he claims. He's played as a striker and he was pooh. 3 managers in a row used him wide. 

Ince is a winger. No matter what he claims. The best football of his career has been played on the wing.

Weimann and Bent were here when Clement was boarding the plane.

So you want a great defence and a superb free flowing attack in a team that never changes but at the same time has plan A-Z.

Who's the right man then? 

I find myself shaking my head at some posters, in the bradders thread people saying we should drop him then on another thread moaning that we keep changing the team, in fact I am sure I saw someone post it within 3 minutes of each other the other day. Which is it? Drop players not performing and change the starting 11 or keep the same starting 11 regardless of form? You cannot have it both ways. 

[toddy]

19 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Sounds a bit weird saying this after we lost 4-1 but all in all the first half last night was hugely encouraging. Whether it be Mel & his millions or PC & his tactics we were head & shoulders above Burnley. Play that way again for the next 10 games and we will have 30 more points.

Isn't that been one of our problems all season - we can play, but only in either the 1st half or 2nd half .....soon many games this season where Paul has had to make changes at HT - unfortunately last nights was beyond him.

There has not been many games where we have played well for 90 mins........ Wolves, & maybe Hull.

[BBG83]

34 minutes ago, Alpha said:

 

Russell is a winger. no matter what he claims. He's played as a striker and he was pooh. 3 managers in a row used him wide. 

 

He was played as a lone striker, not with a partner.

[toddy]

40 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Thought most of you were glad to get rid of clueless Mac for a man that has more than a plan A.

A manager of a shambolic defence?

Now the defence (apart from a blip) has been quite strong. You want a great attack again now?

Russell is a winger. no matter what he claims. He's played as a striker and he was pooh. 3 managers in a row used him wide. 

Ince is a winger. No matter what he claims. The best football of his career has been played on the wing.

Weimann and Bent were here when Clement was boarding the plane.

So you want a great defence and a superb free flowing attack in a team that never changes but at the same time has plan A-Z.

Who's the right man then? 

Spot on with those comments.

Isn't the answer to your question, the best of what Mac brought us in attack and the best in what Paul has brought us in defence?

[MuespachRam]

45 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So you are saying that teams can get promoted without spending £30m?

 

I am not sure what I am saying, just that if you do spend 30 million then promotion should be a given. 

[BondJovi]

1 hour ago, Alpha said:

Thought most of you were glad to get rid of clueless Mac for a man that has more than a plan A.

A manager of a shambolic defence?

Now the defence (apart from a blip) has been quite strong. You want a great attack again now?

Russell is a winger. no matter what he claims. He's played as a striker and he was pooh. 3 managers in a row used him wide. 

Ince is a winger. No matter what he claims. The best football of his career has been played on the wing.

Weimann and Bent were here when Clement was boarding the plane.

So you want a great defence and a superb free flowing attack in a team that never changes but at the same time has plan A-Z.

Who's the right man then? 

Thanks Alpha for identifying some of the clueless drivel being spouted on here. Most people had written off the Burnley game in advance, then get all irate when we actually play well and don't get the result we probably would have done on any other night.

Too many fans baffle me. Too many still live in this world of money=success. We are playing with a huge weight of expectation, coming from fans, from PC... Give the guy a proper chance, if he really is as smart and tuned in as he comes across in his interviews then he will get there. You don't get where he has got by not learning, by not pushing yourself, by not being afraid to change.

This is an entirely different set of circumstances to both Clough and McClaren.