How soon is TOO soon to judge Clement?

[trevor1946]

Please please do not fall for the blame game,our head coach gives advice to the club,and gets the best out of the players he

is presented with.we have a recruitment policy of which our major players have a big big say.

Mel Morris  and sam rush,i don't see a problem,Mel is having a great time and must still have 335 million left..

Sams bank account growing,and Clements has Head Coach Derby County on his C=V- ,the fans having a great time

With transfer speculation,and looking good for top six  and still a possible aotomatic place

 

 

 

 

[richinspain]

  I can imagine Mel Morris sitting down with Paul Clement in the interview and saying "Paul, I want you to put a team out that plays the Derby way. That's football played on the ground in a 4-3-3 formation!". Paul, after a couple of seconds says "Mr Morris, I'm all for playing the ball on the ground, if God had meant football to be played in the sky he would have put grass up there. But let me explain a few things about football formations. 4-3-3 has the following pros and cons (I'm no expert and don't know what they are, I still think that my ols Subbuteo 2-3-5 formation was the dog's rowlocks). Then there's 4-4-2 which has these pros and cons. The diamond formation....... (and so on). I personally prefer the "   " system (I've no idea which one) because of this, this and this." Mel says "that's great, go out and put your ideas into place". PC spends pre-season training and friendly matches trying out his ideas and comes to the conclusion that the players he has at his disposal really are only suited to the tried and tested 4-3-3, and so in the first league game puts out said team and formation. Unfortunately inside 20 minutes he's lost 2 of his most important players in that system to long term injuries. Mel says that as promised Paul can go out and buy replacements for those injured players, and realising he can't buy the players needed to change system buys Jacob Butterfield, someone very similar to Will Hughes. At the last minute of the window the club discovers that Bradley Johnson is available, someone perfect for Paul's favoured system so Mel gives the go ahead to sign him. When the next window comes round the club actively tries to sign players suitable for said system, even though they probably won't show their full potential in the still necesary 4-3-3. However, slowly but surely, PC is building towards his favoured system. Evolution, not revolution.

  I do think that Olson will be good for 4-3-3 and any otherr system that we may play in the future. He's an athletic player like Christie (I believe) and much as I like what Warnock has achieved unfortunately he has his limitations, more through age than anything else. Blackman I would assume will be for the new system and we haven't seen the best of him yet.

  Give Paul time to work the team into being his team. Then is when we should judge him.

  Then again, I could just be spouting a load of rowlocks!

[archied]

You may be right rich ,, I hope so 

[Mostyn6]

23 hours ago, Inglorius said:

How soon is now to paraphrase a Smiths song

 

3 hours ago, LesterRam said:

which one, Morrissey is a miserable bugger at the best of times ? " heaven knows i'm miserable now" or "panic"

• These things take time
• This night has opened my eyes
• Please, Please, Please, let me get what I want (this time)
• I know it's over
• That joke isn't funny anymore
• Nowhere Fast
• Well I wonder
• Sweet and Tender Hooligan
• You just haven't earned it yet baby
• Stretch out and wait
• Money Changes Everything
• I started something I couldn't finish

 

[Van der MoodHoover]

On 26/01/2016 at 15:17, CornwallRam said:

Here's an interesting question, and one which I'm a little uncomfortable with even thinking of; do we actually want Clement to succeed?

I know on one level it's a completely ridiculous question. We all want Derby County to win every match and success for the club is success for the manager. But what I mean is that Clement's style, to me at least, is just boring. Assuming that caution is actually his aim and not just the players inability to make his real system work, if he sorts the current blip out and the results start to improve, do we want a successful side that is the footballing equivalent of an accountant?

At this point I'm just not convinced that I do. I know that I'm hypocritical enough to completely change my mind again once we start wining and just enjoy the success.But I can't help craving some excitement at the football, as well as the league table.

I cannot for the life of me believe that this is true and ask on what evidence this assumption is based?

Clement was a marque appointment being highly sought after around Europe. He was a key part of the real Madrid management team which I don't think had any reputation for caution. 

[RamNut]

1 hour ago, richinspain said:

 Then again, I could just be spouting a load of rowlocks!

Very imaginative and i liked the subbuteo reference but a few factual errors there.

PC didn't play 433 v bolton on the opening day. He played the wierdest set up we've had all season.

442 diamond with hughes and bryson expected to double as wingers

http://int.soccerway.com/matches/2015/08/08/england/championship/bolton-wanderers-football-club/derby-county-fc/2043854/

next match he changes to 4231

http://int.soccerway.com/matches/2015/08/12/england/league-cup/portsmouth-football-club/derby-county-fc/2041842/

Then a couple of 433s

Then 442 at birmingham away

http://int.soccerway.com/matches/2015/08/21/england/championship/birmingham-city-fc/derby-county-fc/2043921/

Then back to 433 again.

Four different formations in the first 5 games. No wonder we got off to a slow start?

[CornwallRam]

Just now, HantsRam said:

I cannot for the life of me believe that this is true and ask on what evidence this assumption is based?

Clement was a marque appointment being highly sought after around Europe. He was a key part of the real Madrid management team which I don't think had any reputation for caution. 

The evidence is that I have watched every home game since Clement arrived from my seat in the West Stand and at least 50% of the away games on TV or the internet. For at least 90% of the game time that I've watched we appear to have followed a 'safety first' policy. We've had the odd twenty minutes spell here and there where we've actually gone for it and probably an hour against Bristol City, but for the rest we've been cautious.

It is possible that this isn't Clement's plan, it's just how games have panned out. I'm also not an expert on Real Madrid, but most Spanish football is possession based and relies on a mixture of caution and skill. It works in Spain because the opposition don't appear to press very hard and the players are schooled in close control from being toddlers. This means that they are proficient at turning sidewards passing into progression up the pitch.

Unfortunately, with our less skillful players, such an approach is likely to result in a lack of forward momentum - and it has. Fortunately, we've been keeping it tight at the back and getting enough goals for the system to have been very effective, until the last few games. I daresay this is just a blip, and the results will improve soon...I'm just not sure the entertainment will.

[richinspain]

23 minutes ago, RamNut said:

Very imaginative and i liked the subbuteo reference but a few factual errors there.

PC didn't play 433 v bolton on the opening day. He played the wierdest set up we've had all season.

442 diamond with hughes and bryson expected to double as wingers

http://int.soccerway.com/matches/2015/08/08/england/championship/bolton-wanderers-football-club/derby-county-fc/2043854/

next match he changes to 4231

http://int.soccerway.com/matches/2015/08/12/england/league-cup/portsmouth-football-club/derby-county-fc/2041842/

Then a couple of 433s

Then 442 at birmingham away

http://int.soccerway.com/matches/2015/08/21/england/championship/birmingham-city-fc/derby-county-fc/2043921/

Then back to 433 again.

Four different formations in the first 5 games. No wonder we got off to a slow start?

Looks like I was speaking a load of row locks then, because the only thing I could possibly know I got wrong 

[Rev]

56 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

 

• These things take time
• This night has opened my eyes
• Please, Please, Please, let me get what I want (this time)
• I know it's over
• That joke isn't funny anymore
• Nowhere Fast
• Well I wonder
• Sweet and Tender Hooligan
• You just haven't earned it yet baby
• Stretch out and wait
• Money Changes Everything
• I started something I couldn't finish

 

My missus calls us bottlers again, and it'll be Girlfriend in a coma!

[Stive Pesley]

On 26/01/2016 at 14:10, StivePesley said:

 

I don’t think anyone can doubt his coaching credentials, and plenty of big names have vouched for him in that respect. What I don’t see is Clement as an inspirational  leader. When we’re losing his body language on the touch line is terrible.

He’s like the opposite of Stuart Pearce (who was all leadership and no tactics)

Funny - I made this comment earlier in the week and no one really picked up on it, but today what do I read in Clement's pre-Man Utd game interview?

"It is about the now, it is about training well for this game and trying to get the tactics right to give us the best chance of performing.

"I am not one for the big motivational speeches."

Which sort of vindicates what I'm saying, and what worries me - when the tactics aren't working we need the manager to inspire the team and motivate them to believe. Clement's body language when we're losing pretty much says "don't look at me, i TOLD you what to do, so don't blame me if you've not done it right"

 

[toddy]

Are we really any better than at this point last season?

[Half fan]

I can recall sitting in the West stand last season watching 70 minutes of tedious football under Schteve. The only thing is -

after the first 20 minutes we were already three nil up, and remained so for the rest of the match!

[TheHomunculusLives]

Judge Clement at the end of this season. Not before.  Every manager deserves a full season as a minimum to put their stamp on the squad, unless there's particularly untenable circumstances involving discipline or working relationships for example.

 

 

[Yani P]

3 hours ago, toddy said:

Are we really any better than at this point last season?

Points wise certainly not

[Old Spalding Ram]

Taken from the Guardian

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jan/27/paul-clement-derby-county-form-manchester-united-fa-cup

 

“When you go two games without a win at a club like Real Madrid it’s a crisis but [as assistant] you don’t feel it like the manager feels it,” he says. “I was absorbed in coaching, thinking about training sessions and motivation. When you’re the manager, all my thoughts are about team selection and managing the players and less about coaching. Most of my time is on selection. You have to take the advice of those close to you and block out the noise. I try to keep some balance; don’t get too desperate about it. I know a good performance and a win is around the corner and then I won’t get too excited about it.”

..................personally I'd file this thread under n for noise!

[Archie]

On 26/01/2016 at 16:53, duncanjwitham said:

But given the FFP situation, it's very unlikely we spend this kind of money again in the near future (unless we get promoted, of course) - with the payments/amortisation spread out over the next few seasons, we'll still be paying for this lot in 2018.  We're stuck with what we've got, and what we've got is a disorganised mess with no obvious strongest XI and not even an obvious way to assemble a strong XI to get the best out of what we do have.

All the people saying it's too early, well maybe it is, but in 6 months I would have hoped to see some improvement in some areas.  But I can't name a single aspect of Clement's management where we're better than last season.  Not one.  Even the improvements at the back have dropped off at the slightest sign of adversity.  It's okay saying give him time, but you have to see some sign of progress to persevere with, and I don't see anything.

I've got nothing against Clement, I just think he was completely the wrong type of appointment.  After last season, we had a strong squad with a strong footballing identity, but maybe a bit of a soft underbelly and lacking cover in certain areas.  When we decided that we were going to 'go for it' spending wise, the requirements for a manager should have been obvious - an experienced manager, who knows this league inside out, who plays a roughly similar style to what we were playing before but could maybe tighten us up a bit at the back.  Someone who could take what we had, make incremental improvements to it and just kick us on a bit.  Obviously there's no guarantee that that ideal manager exists, but we should have got as close as we could.

Instead, we've got Clement, who knows very little about management and about this league and wants to play a completely different style of football that suits very few of the players that were already here.  So we've spent a huge amount of money getting in some new players, (presumably) to suit what Clement wants, leaving us with a weird mess of a squad that doesn't suit any playing style.  All of the team spirit that was instilled by Clough and McClaren seems to have evaporated, all of the slick football is gone, half of the players don't seem to have any idea what they are supposed to be doing and the rest are awfully out of form, but still get picked every week.

Personally, I bought into the GSE sensible, slow-build plan.  I was happy to see us getting our house in order, building a squad of young, hungry players, getting academy players through into the first team.  It took 5 years of fairly steady improvement under Clough, but with McClaren coming in and kicking us on, it seemed worth it.  All of the ground work that had been done over the years was obvious to see.  At the moment it feels like inside of 6 months and £30m, we've wrecked everything.  Those 5 years of work seem completely wasted.  It honestly feels like we're back where we were under Jewell, and we're going to spend the next 5 years clearing out the deadwood and building again.

And we still don't have sodding cover for Martin and Thorne.

Great post and sums up pretty much how l feel (although expressed more succinctly). This should be sent/emailed to Mr. Morris.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

2 hours ago, Archie said:

Great post and sums up pretty much how l feel (although expressed more succinctly). This should be sent/emailed to Mr. Morris.

What on Earth for?

[Archie]

20 hours ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

What on Earth for?

If you were a business owner (apologies if you are), wouldn't you want to know what your 'customers' were thinking with the changes that had been made in your tenure?  This is not an emotive rant but a considered opinion which expresses the concerns of this individual.

[wixman1884]

I miss when we were the good guys, and I'd read things like this