Burnley v Derby

[TroyDyer]

7 hours ago, Ziga Zaga10 said:

He's not a poor footballer. He's a very adequate footballer at this level. However he's a very poor defender who for reasons known only to himself succeeds in making monumental errors when ever a cool head is called for. His body shape for the own goal and the penalty would be on page one of the "How Not To Defend" coaching manual. Tonight's game will do untold damage to his confidence which is hovering just above empty at the best of times. Credit to Clement for giving him enough self belief to get him to this stage of the season but the wheels were always going to come off at some point. He has been giving me palpitations for the last few years and I'm sat in the crowd so God only knows what his team mates are going through. Time for Clem to have a word with Sam to have a word with Mel about a quality number 5 if this season has got any chance of ending well.

That's the point though isn't it? When striving for promotion, is a player that makes monumental errors, adequate?

[Bris Vegas]

Said it on a number of occasions this season, but we rarely punish the opponents when we're on top. I look back at games against Charlton, Birmingham (A), Leeds (H + A), Brighton and Burnley.

In each of these games we've missed glorious chaces when on top and we've ended up dropping points.

If we were as clinical against Burnley as we were against Ipswich, we would have been beating Burnley by at least two clear goals at half-time. 1-1 flattered them immensely.

Blackman should have scored from like three yards out, and we got in multiple good positions aswell.

It's rather laughable that Burnley didn't have to work hard for any of their goals. They were all gifts.

[SouthernRam]

Jesus wept. I can't believe how many people have jumped onto Keogh's back for yesterday's performance.

We have we all (myself included) been singing his praises this year and he's been so much solider under Clement's guidance and Shackell's support.

Not only that, but you all seem more than happy to forgive Shackell's clanger hand ball for the penalty and effective owl goal.

My point is that we were unlucky at the back and that is absolutely not where the problems lie. I feel confident in Carson-Christie-Keogh-Shackell-Warnock.

The problems are getting forward and, as Bris said, punishing teams. We need to be more clinical and, quite frankly, Chris Martin hasn't been at the races for most of the season.

You can't blame it all on 'link up' play being at fault when you can see in the last 10 minutes Razza whipping in some fantastic crosses for Martin to make a lame attempt at.

[eddie]

11 hours ago, Derbados said:

I see Johnson had a terrific game Eddie, you were right, how wrong I was . . . 

He was crap, but his quality will come to the fore again (I hope).

[StaffsRam]

Pointless singling players out - plenty of scapegoats to go around. 

Confidence, or lack thereof, is a massive issue at the moment. 

[Sexydadbod]

8 hours ago, Todd Is God said:

What did we learn?

For me this was a revealing game;

1. The team we started with is pretty much our best team (bar one)

2. Blackman is a poor signing - he couldn't be arsed to play his role in the second half. I would stick him in the reserves and promote Weimann.

3. Camara isn't tready - he's keen but needs time to adapt.

4. Clement is struggling. He needs to raise morale and boost players because we all know we have a good team in there somewhere. Can he do this? I doubt it - he needs a season or two.

5. Martin is our best forward. He's intelligent but he needs Hughes / Butterfield / Bryson.   Ince / Blackman is not good enough.

 

You say that Camara isn't ready but then you go on to say that martin is our best cf? Camara put 2 or 3 easy opportunities on the plate for martin when he came on which even I would have scored. I can't help to think how better this team would be if we had andre gray rather than martin

[unclej]

2 hours ago, SouthernRam said:

My point is that we were unlucky at the back and that is absolutely not where the problems lie. I feel confident in Carson-Christie-Keogh-Shackell-Warnock.

 

We've let in 13 goals in the last 6 games.

[Rev]

11 hours ago, Posh Ram said:

Not that I don't think we're absolute cack but I'll join you on this bet just to p*ss off Rammyboy, Reprieve for my charity please

From the lack of response, I don't think he's willing to put his money where his mouth is!

[LauraH]

My opinion on that game (not sure anyone will care but makes me feel better typing it out).

Up until going 3-1 down we were the better team and i don't think i've ever seen a team gift the opposition a win in such spectacular fashion before.

Thorne turning his back for their first goal was unforgivable.

Bradley Johnson needs a rocket up his arse, he what totally anonymous. Same for Ince however i feel Ince is struggling due to lack of service from midfield (sideways passing). I'd be happy to see BJ benched for the next league game.

I wish Hendrick had started.

Occasion was too much for Shacks.

Butterfield is an excellent player.

Some of the comments from Derby "fans" last night on social media and on here were utterly ridiculous "PC needs sacking" "we will be in a relegation battle" were the standouts for stupidity.

Anyhoo Burnley are pap and i'm a bit "meh" about Fridays game but it could work in our favour, it's a pressure free game and a good performance could give us the confidence to kick on. All we need is a run of 3-4 wins and we are right back in the mix.

 

 

[Animal is a Ram]

Clement had it nailed last night in his post match interview.

Midfield was strong, what happened in both boxes just wasn't good enough. An understatement.

Thorne and Butterfield had a great first half - save for that really half arsed skip to allow Lowton a free cross - shame Johnson was as anonymous as they get, apart from being late on Joey Barton a few times.

Front three weren't good enough again. Martin showing an improvement, but Blackman out wide doesn't work. He looked like what he is, a striker playing out of position. Ince showed some promise in the first half, disappeared in the second. Get Camara out there. Not just because he's put a few crosses in, but because its a round peg in a round hole. Russell was dire.

Keogh and Shackell. Not a lot needs saying. Couldn't cope with Gray's pressure and physicality. Quite what Keogh was doing dangling a leg out in the penalty area is beyond me. 2nd penalty was unfortunate, looks as if Shackell was trying to push Gray away. There looked to be a nudge on Keogh for the OG too.

Referee got everything right tonight. Can tell he was Prem standard. Can't believe how whiny Burnley fans were though.

[gazum123]

Tonights game was a werid one. We played alright nothinng special but nothing bad and we had some bad luck.

 

Martian is a funny one he looks very unintrested at the moment but then I thought to myself what's changed in the team ? Looking at Martin as a player he is a very clever and creative football player who likes service to his feet you know that neat stuff allowing him to play little one touch passes to open up teams and give himself good chances on goal. Our team has a few players who understand this with Martin and play that way e,g Hendrick and bryson. Our current team seems to be keen on knocking it around midfield passing it to ince / Christie and hoping that they don't mess it up / get it in the boc which isn't the way we score goals.

Look at Martin last night whenever the ball when into the area he didn't go out to attack the ball because he wasn't expecting a decent cross or oppertunity. Martin isn't like Grey who wants to go out and make his own oppertunities take on players and perform that kind of magic. Hes your kind of player who reads the game well holds the ball up and can bring other players into the game.

 

Think we need to start looking at the way we play rather than knocking the ball constantly down the wing for Christie / ince to mess up we need to start playing more attacking football down the middle bringing martin into the game, get hendrick on the pitch he will take on players and is happy to run at players infront of him currently all we have is a midfield that passes the ball backwards and down the wing completely nulling what our attack is all about.

 

Anyone else agree ?

 

 

[LauraH]

I forgot to add that i thought Martin seemed a little better although it's clear he's struggling. Last few games he's been on his arse being mardy more than he was standing up but last night i don't recall many (if any) wardrobe falls... That;s something i suppose. Ahh man i feel down this morning

[Pearl Ram]

I was heartened with our performance at the break, I hadn't seen anything from Burnley to suggest we couldn't come away with something from the game. I actually thought we could even win it.

The second half, well, you can't legislate for that can you ? We'll probably never see the like again, I hope not anyway. Still backing Clement but I hope he explains to BJ it's not happening for him and he's given him a more that fair crack of the whip and it's time for him to have a breather,  a little period of reflection and get his fookin' act together if he wants regular first team football.

Looking forward to getting back to winning ways in the league against Preston. A tidy performance on Friday wouldn't go amiss mind but it's not the be all and end all for me personally.

COYR.

[MACKWORTHRAM]

Had time to reflect on last night and it was one of the strangest games ive seen for a while.

First half I thought we were very good. We had total control of the game and I didn't think we were in trouble at all. If we had played like that against Reading and Birmingham I think we would have got a much better return than the 1 point we actually got.

2nd half I thought we were still in control of the game. I wasn't worried we were going to concede and in actual fact thought we would go on and win the game.

Then they get in our box and get a penalty. Which it was. Hard to blame Keogh though. Warnock and Shackell were there too. He got past them. Keogh had to put a foot in to try and get the ball or it was a definate goal. He went for it, Gray got there first and a penalty it was. The best defenders in the world give penalties away.

The next penalty was a moment of madness from Shackell. Who I thought played well last night. I have no idea why he had his arms out like that. Stonewall penalty again. You can't legislate for that. 

3-1 down. I knew there was noway back. Although I still thought we could get another goal and they would get nervous. Then the 4th goal was like the start of the season all over again. Aimless shot, hit and hope and when your luck is in, that flies over the bar or gets blocked. But the way our luck is at the minute there was only gonna be one outcome when that hit Shackell. You just can't do anything about it. You really cant. We played well last night at what is a very tough place to go.

Still trying to get my head round how we lost the game, let alone lose it 4-1. 

I see fans on twitter who want Clement out. Absolutely mental. Were they the same fans that wanted Clement out at the end of August? Then went quiet when we went top of the league? Probably so. You can't sack a manager everytime you have a bad run. Personally I saw more than enough last night to know that we will be fine and will win games sooner rather than later.

In all this doom and gloom I thought I would try and give people a little bit of optimism.....

-February and March are big months. Very big months. Looking at each game individually I would say Derby should win them. Im not stupid enough to say we will win them all. But we are more than capable of doing so.

Preston (H),Fulham (A), MK Dons (H),Brentford (A), Blackburn (H), Wolves (A), Huddersfield (H), QPR (A), Rotherham (A), Forest (H)

In the next 10 games. We do not play anyone that is currently above 10th in the league. Now if you want automatic promotion. You need to win these games. Simple as that. I honestly believe we will win our next 5 home games. Then its all about the away games. Fulham are a poor side at the minute. Brentford will be tricky would probably take a point, same with Wolves and same with QPR. But we are more than capable of winning a couple of those away games. Again I am not saying we will. But we are capable.

Rivals fixtures-

Burnley- Sheff Weds (A), Hull (H), Reading (A), Rotherham (H), Forest (H), Bolton (A), Blackburn (H), Fulham (A), Huddersfield (A), Wolves (A), 

Boro- Blackburn (H), Leeds (A), Reading (H), Cardiff (H), Fulham (A), Blackburn (A), Wolves (H), Rotherham (A), Charlton (A), Hull (H)

Hull- Burnley (A), Blackburn (A), Brighton (H), Forest (H), Ipswich (A), Sheff Weds (H), Birmingham (A), Brentford (H), MK Dons (H), Boro (A)

Brighton-Brentford (H), Bolton (H), Hull (A), Cardiff (A), Bristol City (A), Leeds (H),Preston (A), Sheff Weds (H), Reading (H), MK Dons (A)

Looking at those fixtures, does anybody think that those 4 teams will pick up more points than Derby? I honestly dont. Our run in is the best on paper. Hulls fixtures are very very tricky. Their next 6 games in particular. Worth nothing in the next 10 games, they all play each other. We don't.  Burnley's next 3 are very hard. None of us would trade our next 10 games for any of the others.

There are lost more twists and turns still to come. Believe me. 

-Last season after 29 games. Watford were 6th and 7 points of 2nd place. They finished 2nd and comfortably.

-Start of the season we went 5 games without a win. Conceding deflected goals. Then we played Preston. Won the game and that set us off on a run. We have just gone 5 games without a win, conceded a horribly deflected goal last night. Our next game is Preston

Keep the faith people. We are all in this together. I strongly believe we will go on a run. This season is a long way from being finished.

 

COYR.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Superb post mate. Very well said. 

[North_Stand_Ram]

Watford were 7th at this point last season.... I'm sure Norwich were in a similar area 

[Ramos]

24 minutes ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

Had time to reflect on last night and it was one of the strangest games ive seen for a while.

First half I thought we were very good. We had total control of the game and I didn't think we were in trouble at all. If we had played like that against Reading and Birmingham I think we would have got a much better return than the 1 point we actually got.

2nd half I thought we were still in control of the game. I wasn't worried we were going to concede and in actual fact thought we would go on and win the game.

Then they get in our box and get a penalty. Which it was. Hard to blame Keogh though. Warnock and Shackell were there too. He got past them. Keogh had to put a foot in to try and get the ball or it was a definate goal. He went for it, Gray got there first and a penalty it was. The best defenders in the world give penalties away.

The next penalty was a moment of madness from Shackell. Who I thought played well last night. I have no idea why he had his arms out like that. Stonewall penalty again. You can't legislate for that. 

3-1 down. I knew there was noway back. Although I still thought we could get another goal and they would get nervous. Then the 4th goal was like the start of the season all over again. Aimless shot, hit and hope and when your luck is in, that flies over the bar or gets blocked. But the way our luck is at the minute there was only gonna be one outcome when that hit Shackell. You just can't do anything about it. You really cant. We played well last night at what is a very tough place to go.

Still trying to get my head round how we lost the game, let alone lose it 4-1. 

I see fans on twitter who want Clement out. Absolutely mental. Were they the same fans that wanted Clement out at the end of August? Then went quiet when we went top of the league? Probably so. You can't sack a manager everytime you have a bad run. Personally I saw more than enough last night to know that we will be fine and will win games sooner rather than later.

In all this doom and gloom I thought I would try and give people a little bit of optimism.....

-February and March are big months. Very big months. Looking at each game individually I would say Derby should win them. Im not stupid enough to say we will win them all. But we are more than capable of doing so.

Preston (H),Fulham (A), MK Dons (H),Brentford (A), Blackburn (H), Wolves (A), Huddersfield (H), QPR (A), Rotherham (A), Forest (H)

In the next 10 games. We do not play anyone that is currently above 10th in the league. Now if you want automatic promotion. You need to win these games. Simple as that. I honestly believe we will win our next 5 home games. Then its all about the away games. Fulham are a poor side at the minute. Brentford will be tricky would probably take a point, same with Wolves and same with QPR. But we are more than capable of winning a couple of those away games. Again I am not saying we will. But we are capable.

Rivals fixtures-

Burnley- Sheff Weds (A), Hull (H), Reading (A), Rotherham (H), Forest (H), Bolton (A), Blackburn (H), Fulham (A), Huddersfield (A), Wolves (A), 

Boro- Blackburn (H), Leeds (A), Reading (H), Cardiff (H), Fulham (A), Blackburn (A), Wolves (H), Rotherham (A), Charlton (A), Hull (H)

Hull- Burnley (A), Blackburn (A), Brighton (H), Forest (H), Ipswich (A), Sheff Weds (H), Birmingham (A), Brentford (H), MK Dons (H), Boro (A)

Brighton-Brentford (H), Bolton (H), Hull (A), Cardiff (A), Bristol City (A), Leeds (H),Preston (A), Sheff Weds (H), Reading (H), MK Dons (A)

Looking at those fixtures, does anybody think that those 4 teams will pick up more points than Derby? I honestly dont. Our run in is the best on paper. Hulls fixtures are very very tricky. Their next 6 games in particular. Worth nothing in the next 10 games, they all play each other. We don't.  Burnley's next 3 are very hard. None of us would trade our next 10 games for any of the others.

There are lost more twists and turns still to come. Believe me. 

-Last season after 29 games. Watford were 6th and 7 points of 2nd place. They finished 2nd and comfortably.

-Start of the season we went 5 games without a win. Conceding deflected goals. Then we played Preston. Won the game and that set us off on a run. We have just gone 5 games without a win, conceded a horribly deflected goal last night. Our next game is Preston

Keep the faith people. We are all in this together. I strongly believe we will go on a run. This season is a long way from being finished.

 

COYR.

Your optimism sickens me

[WorksopRam]

Great post, Mackworth. 

And on a side note, I can't remember seeing a better refereeing display than last night for a game of ours. 

[Animal is a Ram]

28 minutes ago, WorksopRam said:

Great post, Mackworth. 

And on a side note, I can't remember seeing a better refereeing display than last night for a game of ours. 

That's what happens when you get a Prem standard ref. Think the only wrong decision was early on when it should have been a corner.

Excellent post MR.

[LeedsCityRam]

Agree with a lot of the sentiment on here - was just a really strange game. To concede a laughable own goal, 2 ridiculous penalties & the late deflection all in a match we dominated for 45 mins, is real once a season stuff.

Think its fair to say Keogh & Shackell will not play that badly again for a while but I did think after Keogh's OG & extremely poor defensive clearance 2 mins later, that he needed to come off for Shotton. Dealing with a player of Gray's class is tough enough without having to wear a mask, have a broken nose & with confidence shattered by recent games & the own goal.

Going forward, I though first half we played some great stuff & Blackman/Ince gave us great width and importantly some space for Butterfield to operate in. What I did find frustrating though was the lack of runners into the box when decent balls were being knocked in. Ince in particular was guilty of hanging back when Warnock/Blackman were firing some decent quality into the box - as a 'wide striker' he needs to be around the far post - not 20 yards out still.

Also thought Bradley Johnson was extremely average - I like his energy & nasty streak but he was a passenger for me last night. Hendrick to replace him as the 'hard working' midfielder for the Utd game.