Ambitious

8 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

Bloody hell haven't listened to a Warne analysis for a number of weeks.

We didn't want the ball in the middle because they had an overload in there. Didn't want to try to put through balls to the strikers because they had 3CBs. We just needed to get into the wings more and get more crosses in more quickly.

Now getting defensive over Dom asking him why Sibley didn't come in when we needed goals and he's called him the best finisher at the club...  Well we had other unused subs. Bradley didn't come on. Vickers didn't come on

..

Straight back to not listening to his interviews me!

In fairness I think we can all understand the logic in not wanting to play in contested areas  and for the most part it was the right decision because we were able to get into good positions and stack the box but the players lacked quality required on this occasion to make it count. 

The result is obviously a lot worse than the performance, for me this game was painfully similar to the Cambridge one.

I don’t think Warne got a lot wrong with his set up and team selection, albeit I would’ve liked to see Sibley for that little bit of guile and craft in the final third. It’s squarely at the feet of the players who made a ton of bad decisions in key moments and lacked quality when they needed it most.

You can definitely see why Cheltenham are where they are, but that’ll be something their fans have had something to cheer today. 

2 minutes ago, rynny said:

We've got the option to extend his contract to the end of the season, don't we?

I know Warne made reference to wanting to keep him until at least the summer so wasn't sure but you're right - does say 'view to extending' whatever that means. 

On 03/10/2023 at 23:49, lukedcfc said:

I really hope we don’t regret giving him only a 6 month deal, he is easily a top 10 championship player. 

Difficult because he didn't want to be in League One and I can only imagine his wage is that of a mid-high end Championship defender too. 

It remains to be seen what happens with Cashin, but we probably could only commit to January before releasing some extra funds in the budget through a player sale or two, or three. If we are going well and he's a big part of it then I'm sure we will do everything we can to keep him. 

I'm in no doubt that his early form will be catching the attention of some Championship clubs though, so it will be an interesting negotiation. 

2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Would we have signed Nyambe if Rooney didn't pick up a serious injury? There were very few alternative free agents out there, with Nyambe being the obvious option.

Would we have signed Waghorn if Forsyth wasn't a part time agent? It sounded like he was only being signed as 3rd/4th choice CF too

To Warne's credit, I think reading between the lines that we were in for Nyambe from a fairly early point in the window. He kept making reference to a player who was waiting for a Championship move but hopefully will come. I think that may have been in reference to Nyambe. 

He's going to be a on a very good wage here - he was one of Wigan's highest earners last season in the Championship. He rejected a decent contract from Blackburn the season before to get it. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he's on £10-12k a week here, perhaps why it was negotiated until January as it was a big investment on our part and Nyambe didn't really fancy playing League One. 

It looks like it's working out at present, though. 

When looking at the player positions, it was actually a back four on Tuesday but dressed up as a five: 

Wilson played more advanced than NML. Bird, it seems, played a very similar position to Collins too. 

Same four as everyone else - Nelson, Nyambe, Fornah & Waghorn. 

Fornah is the player who I like most, you can really see a potential significant upside to him and his play. Technically and physically, he's fantastic. He's still very raw, but feel that he's a player who does have a pretty high ceiling - certainly no less talented than Bird, Sibley or Knight which is huge considering how cheap we were to pick him up. 

We, along with Bolton, have the most prolific strike force in the league this season. Barnsley also have 12 goals from their strikers, 9 from one player, but have played a game more. 

Oxford and Portsmouth trail behind, Portsmouth 8 goals and Oxford only 4. Oxford’s top goalscorer is a left back/midfielder but they’ve had 11 different scorers so far this season. In comparison we have 7, Bolton 5.

Goals from strikers aren’t a problem, it’s getting the midfield to increase their share that will be important. 

Waghorn, Collins and Washington are on for 55 goals this season at their current pace if they manage to keep it up. 

14 hours ago, CornwallRam said:

All we know is that the owner says we have 'a good budget for League 1'. 

I'd bet really good money that our wage bill is the highest in the league, but that's by-the-by. 

We should really be in the top 2 and a play-off position for us this season is no success. It's probably acceptable, but by no means a successful season unless promoted. 

We were a lot better on Saturday, so we'll see where we go from here. The back four has made a difference, four clean sheets in four games where we have gone 4 instead of 3. We don't concede many opportunities now which is good to see.

What I will say is that the atmosphere around the club is disgusting at the moment. I feel that will be something to watch going forward, because I get the impression from the outside looking in that there is a decent size, albeit minority, that absolutely hate Paul Warne and get no pleasure in wins under him. Commercially, I think anything less than promotion this season is going to be hugely detrimental to this club because I don't think the fans have it in them to watch a Paul Warne Derby County side kick off the 24/25 season in League One. If we stay down, he has to go - otherwise you take 4-6k off the attendances right away which would be multiple millions. 

On 30/09/2023 at 21:10, inter politics said:

Clough's teams were far more exciting. Would liken Warne's style more to Rowett.

Warne’s style is nothing like Rowett’s for me, the latter had a rigid fixed system in place. I expected him to be more like Rowett when he first took the job, but absolutely nothing like it in comparison. We (often) play a chaotic brand of football now, predicated on overloads and moving the ball forward quickly at pace. Rowett’s football was massively structured. Defensively minded, structure that led almost no gaps to be exploited and then get the ball into the feet of your playmakers. Warne is the most cavalier manager I can remember, certainly of the past 20 years, he encourages a lot of risk-taking from his players, he likes to see his wingers run at players and he likes difficult passes being played.

Rowett liked a back 6/7, with a big lad upfront and 2/3 playmakers off him. Solid back four, two defensive midfielders infront of them. Forsyth and Wisdom at full back. Ledley and Huddlestone in CM. Slow, but played slow and were drilled to not leave gaps. It made life difficult for other teams. A safety first approach, as I said, deeply structure and intensely pragmatic.

3 hours ago, IlsonDerby said:

I’ll agree that it was a relief that we never felt like conceding. For me to have been as optimistic as you are moving forwards I’d have needed to have seen us create a bit more (even if it didn’t lead to a goal).
 

2 decent heading opportunities (I’d only say Waghorn’s was clear cut) and a runaway train style run with NML for 2 thirds of possession is slim pickings. 
 

I’d agree that it was much easier to watch than when he creates as you call it a basket ball match. 

The chances we did or didn’t create were on the players individually rather than a systematic error - in my opinion. I would guess that we had more final third entries in the game against Cambridge than we have in any other game this season and quite significantly more.

We worked the ball into crossing opportunities brilliantly but it just didn’t seem to do much with them, that’s on the players decision making and the movement of the strikers. On another day, we win the game comfortably, but it was just one of those days. For me, it was just good to see us dominate a game, regardless of the result.

Best performance of the season by an absolute mile, but final touch wasn’t there. I just hope that we don’t throw the baby out with the bath water based on us not winning this game. We suffocated a capable Cambridge side to absolutely no opportunities due to a controlled, concise approach. The final ball lacked, individually not good enough, but the set up and system is one for much promise. 

So, so much better and a progressive performance. I can see a ton more promise with what I saw today than our usual approach of trying to turn the game into a basketball match. 

Brilliant work - would love to see these for years past because I think you usually get a fantastic representation of true picture. Standard deviation is a great factor to highlight as it does highlight how some players are negatively viewed whereby bias could creep in. 

I disagree, personally, I think you have to play NML because even if he isn’t playing well the threat of him is always moving opposition regardless of whether he touches the ball or not. He’s an Adama Traore by all accounts, more often the threat of him is more dangerous than him and players subconsciously factor that in. If we had a plethora of talent waiting to come in for him with a similar skill set then I would be happy to roll the dice elsewhere, but feel that we simply lose more than we gain by dropping NML for any of our other players. 

14 hours ago, davenportram said:

I’d wiped Stubbs from my memory

 

Stubbs initially was miles ahead of anyone else in our team, but got injured and never recovered. If memory serves, as I can’t be arsed to look it up, two of his first few games ended in low score draws (Birmingham, Sunderland) where he looked the part and then he went off injured very early into the Chelsea game and I’m sure it was 0-0 when he went off - we lost 6-1 with Lampard scoring four. Cheers Sav!

I think he was out for a while and I’m not sure he ever really came back after that injury, seemed to retire him from what I can remember. He definitely showed promise in a few moments though, which that season stuck out like a sore thumb - include Mears and Ghaly in that. Oakley too. 

Excited to see Martin in League One. I haven’t seen much of him for a few seasons, but I’d imagine he still has the capability to flash technical ability that is very rarely seen at this level. Bristol Rovers are a team to watch out for going forward.

Bird, Hourihane and Smith is Warne’s midfield. Absolutely no doubt in my mind about that. I’d be surprised if when everyone was fit that wouldn’t be his go-to. 

I’d go for Fornah, Bird and Sibley. If Sibley isn’t playing then I would go Hourihane over Bird. You need a goal threat in your midfield. Sibley and Hourihane are the only two who consistent provide that based on goal contribution per minute in a midfield role. 

We have missed him yes, but I think in a lot of games he actually plays that we also miss him. Fantastic player, but until he starts having more impact on the game then he’s not exactly leaving a massive hole - same with Knight. We miss Knight’s energy, sure, sometimes significantly, but we don’t miss his ability or production. Bird is similar, where we miss his technical ability, but not his energy or production. 

We have four wins, one draw and one loss since he was sidelined. One win and three losses in games he played. It doesn’t tell the whole story as we know, but also shows how little we have missed him despite him being a key player for us. 

1 minute ago, Curtains said:

“Derby County's home game against Charlton Athletic could be in doubt because of international call-ups. The Rams are due to host Michael Appleton's side on October 14, but it could now be postponed “

Taken from DET 

I think given we had six on international duty last time and added another international that we will be skipping all international weekends this season.

Cambridge are doing brilliantly at the moment, thanks in no small part to (for my money) the best manager in the league in Mark Bonner, but they’re a seriously underfunded team - a team full of the most hardened of journeymen with the very smallest sprinkling of youth. They’re not a team who is going to beat us with energy or pace, Gassan Ahadme is a player at times threatening but ultimately struggles hugely with consistency. 

These are usually the games that we do well in, the team makeup is similar to ourselves but on a fifth of a budget. I do think Bonner is ultimately a very smart manager, but I predict a scrappy game whereby the quality of the players ends up being the difference.

In terms of team selection, their old guard at the back - Ryan Bennett and Michael Morrison - are likely to struggle with pace so it gives Warne a chance to give a run out for Washington. Shame TJJ isn’t fit as this would be a good opportunity for him too. Smith needs to make sure Thomas doesn’t get much time or opportunity on the ball - he is a player who does have a bit of quality.

11 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Very sad.

 

Truly horrible. I can’t think of anything worse for someone to go through so young. I hope as a club, fanbase we can pull together and do something for him. It can’t just be a 2 minute moment of silence or applause or whatever. We need to do more. 

On 23/09/2023 at 12:18, RoyMac5 said:

 

He’s said previously that he wish he could’ve managed Derby to be fair - I think he was in contention when we opted for Lampard instead. 

34 minutes ago, On the Ram Page said:

Thanks for confirming I’m absolutely right. You are purely guessing and don’t know what budget Derby have, nor Carlisle. Stop taunting opinion as fact.

I would guess when the accounts are published: Carlisle wage bill will be between £3-4m and Derby’s will be between £12-14m. Bolton and Blackpool will be the only other side’s in their league with eight figure wage bills, but I suspect we will be clear by at least £1m. 

7 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

I’m seriously suggesting that Warne favors a direct approach because it’s the easiest, and least technical, style of football to coach. There is obviously defensive and positional coaching too, but I don’t think we’re very good at that either.

Warne’s idea of playing well is evidently far different from my idea of playing well. 

I just like a certain style of football. And Warne’s preferred style of football is almost a total contrast from that.

 

Agree with most of this, Warne for me is a tactical manager who focuses his messaging around:

’when x team does this, or when y player does this, try this ball/movement’

rather than purely focus on our own style, movement. It always seems to me that it’s predicated on chaos and I can see why he’s at success at this level. One he doesn’t need the most fantastically technical players to work with, just bodies with energy in most positions with technical players in a few key roles to keep it all together. I can see why Korey Smith would’ve been of interest for him in the Championship but why David McGoldrick wouldn’t have been in League One. 

I don’t think he has a style other than get it forward into spaces left by the other team. I just think teams at this level give you chances and that’s provided him with success. 

I saw some stuff that I haven’t typically seen from Paul Warne since he’s been at Derby, but would associate with him at Rotherham. 

The flat back four gave almost nothing away, Wildsmith a little erratic with some long range efforts but the defence gave nothing easy away and defended well at set pieces. 

Fornah showed there is definite a player in there, but still very raw. Football didn’t really stick at times and he looked like a midfield Osula. Still, ability is definitely there to see. Korey Smith tidy enough, but I think he has the lowest ceiling out of everyone in the team.

I don’t think Waghorn suited his role in the side, personally, I just think you play him centrally or don’t bother. You wouldn’t play Collins wide left so you shouldn’t Waghorn. Sibley didn’t really do enough, think it was evident that he’s still not quite up to speed fitness wise which is a shame. NML pick of the bunch from the attacking midfield three but all of them would’ve expected more of themselves.

Collins was excellent. Threw himself about, battled and scrapped - well deserved two goals.

Same issues still remain, we struggle to retain control of the ball and pace of the game. The back four really limited the Carlisle attack to anything decent but there’s just too much erratic play amongst the team, so desperate to get the ball forward that we’re playing so many hopeful balls. Fornah tried to play Collins and Waghorn in behind a couple of times, it’s just not their game, I have no doubts that he’s been asked to move the ball forward quickly (as are most of them) but it doesn’t half end up looking like a dog’s dinner more often than not. 

Still, the win today is exactly what I predicated: Leaning on an underfunded side, with a mixture of players massively out their depth and players trying their best to do 2/3 people’s jobs. Warne will continue to win games like this, for sure, and with a run at underfunded sides coming up then it should leave us in a decent position going into the winter period. I’d just love to see us adapt some control to our play - that was the first time this season that Carlisle had more of the ball than their opponents. I know it’s an elective by-product of how we play, but I don’t like it. I just feel like we’re leaving so much more out on the table in terms of performance.