Hanny

8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

What does this mean

How can bids be best and final in a competitive process when there is no end date?

That's one way of selling an asset. They will have an internal end-date for the sale. You don't accept any bids that have contingencies or follow-ons, or escalation clauses, etc. You ask for best and final, then we will make a decision and let you all know who won. 

It is the quickest way to get a deal done, however, if everyone just decides to bid low...you are kind of screwed. With the short timeline now, I would imagine to see a couple formal bids in the next couple days. ?‍♂️

8 minutes ago, RipleyRich said:

I believe the contract had a deadline date for completion,  after which it becomes null and void.

IMO, he has known for a while that he wasn't going to complete. Whether that be a financial problem or he simply changed his mind, who knows. But my guess is the excuses were delay tactics to pass the contractual dates.

Yeah. We may not know exactly. I have never dealt in contracts that were this complex. But have handled some high figure deals/contracts.

While void dates are certainly there to which the contract is 'dead', they normally also come with some type of date that if passed the signer is still liable for 'X'. That could be a financial amount or anything really. From my experience those 'prove-it' dates are put in to stop chancers from just signing a deal then being able to walk away freely. 

Like I said though, no clue what may or may not have been in these contracts. But I will be a wee bit surprised if some type of legal/financial retribution isn't sought...we just won't hear about it. 

I will say. I am honestly surprised CK has apparently pulled his bid. I imagine there could be some legal ramifications that could be taken against him from the creditors/EFL/Q/etc. (depending on how the contracts were drawn up).

Hoping that one of these other rumored bidders are quick and can get something settled. 

coyr

7 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Agree when you say it’s still more than possible CK will sort out whatever the weird banking issue is. Hope he does 
 

But if CK falls away and if there are no other generous bidders,  don’t you think Ashley will hit q with a ball that is so low it’s subterranean 

Ha. I like that. ?. 
 

I suppose, yes. If all of a sudden CK didn’t complete the deal (although I imagine at this point he would likely find him self in some expensive legal trouble if he didn’t), then yes. Anyone could technically offer what they want. Doesn’t have to be accepted.  
 

But to me the most likely scenario here: rich egotist (MA) is realizing he is about to lose out on buying a fantastic asset, that he thought he would be able to low ball for. So now he throws his toys out the pram and gets his PR team doing the turns. 
 

I’d just like to see a deal get done. And CK is in the strongest position to do that right now. 

2 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Problem is, costs are escalating all the time - CK’s deal was done some time ago.  And his deal rests on a particular lease of the stadium that suits his bp and may not suit others. And Rooney supports CK and will have agreed terms with him. And Rooney might not be on Mike Ashley’s Christmas card list. etcetc. So I don’t think it’s as simple as you say 

I agree it would get complicated if CKs money doesn’t clear.  But I am not really concerned about that. Since it’s been stated he has already made moves to bring more money in that matches what is being held up. So in case his funds are still held up over the next few days, he has the backup funds to use instead. 
 

But there is no lowballing to be had here. Minimums are already set to be within the guidelines of the EFL and creditors. As you have said the bills are more the price goes up. Parties can all point to what they have agreed upon as a starting point (or floor). 
 

The only bluster that is being made here are by the parties on the outside looking in. And that makes sense and is quite telling. 

14 minutes ago, jono said:

Oh yes … but the funds haven’t cleared and his exclusivity has ended. So admins are open to other bids below the “ostensible” floor. It’s done … but only if the funds clear and if no last minute bid arrives that the creditors snatch at because they have lost faith in the CK bid .. perhaps you can see my position now ? .. there is an only when and an if before we get to your done.

Hey, like most of us on here we are hanging on and CK seems to be the one that will avoid the -15 but just remember .. we have had bank holidays, money laundering checks .. is that it ? Or is there another reason/hiccup ? .. Neither of us knows and if there is a floor it has holes in it. 

No, I see your position fairly clear. You are frustrated and worried the club will go under. So you are frantically grasping at whatever PR spins you see and try to connect some conspiracy theory dots. 
 

I am trying to focus on logical and legal contract practices…as that’s all that matters to the folks who are signing these deals.
 

Yes, we all want to see a deal finalized. And I believe we will. So to sit an argue semantic points of the word ostensibly- seems a wee bit silly. 
 

I hope you find some calm in this storm we are all in. 

22 minutes ago, jono said:

But the floor price isn’t set UNTIL those funds clear. .. right now there isn’t a floor price. “Ostensibly” doesn’t cut it. You maybe right intheory, but but theory only becomes established fact when CK’s cash is available .. right now, it isn’t.  That’s it. 

I don’t quite understand your position here. 

I’m saying the contracts signed by all parties have set the floor. Because it’s all agreed upon. So, yes, the floor has been ostensibly set because all parties have agreed. 
 

The floor is not set when the funds clear. When the funds clear- CK owns the club. That’s the last step in completing the contract. It’s over- no discussions or offers can be made. Done.

18 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

EFL have told us today that the drop dead date in the contract has passed.
 

Doesn’t mean the contract can’t still be completed though 

Ah! I read that differently before. That does say asset purchase agreement. I thought it was just a date passed that the EFL wanted for membership purposes. 
 

so, yeah. Assuming that is true, then the contract date for completion has passed.
 

And as you say, the deal could still be done, but now that gives freedoms of all parties to change what they previously agreed upon. That could indeed complicate things even further. 

34 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Agreed this bit is critical. However competent or incompetent we may think Q are, I’d hope there was some sort of timescale for completion written into the contract rather than just leave it to CK to complete as and when he feels like it. 
 

I know it’s not quite the same thing (it’s a much bigger transaction) but you wouldn’t exchange contracts for a house purchase without agreeing a completion date.

100% agree. Apologies, I misunderstood what you were saying. And I likely wasn’t very clear. 
 

I assume there is a date of completion, and it may well be soon. However, my point is, that date is all that matters to CK. So all the theatrics and hand wringing from other bidders PR teams is useless in a practical sense, however, it is only one of two plays they have; the other is to outbid.

 I suspect Ashley and the others know CK is in a position to complete the deal, which is why they aren’t actually bidding, and trying to force Q/EFL/etc to ‘attempt and pull’ his contract…so they then could try bidding lower. 
 

CK has until the date on the contract to get it completed. And since it appears to me (as been reported), he has put in motion more money to ensure he completes the deal; the only way CK is not the next owner is for someone to outbid him now. 

5 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Yes but there may come a time, in the not too distant future, when Q lose patience with CK and his offer is no longer valid (IMO). Imagine if no one offers more and we’re still waiting in two weeks from now for CK’s mysterious funds to clear. His funds are proven but he seems to be having remarkable difficulty in getting it here.

Well- CK would then be within his rights to sue whoever agrees to ‘pull’ his lawfully signed contracts.

Unless there is a legal date on the deal when it needs to be completed, they all agreed his deal…so it is his until someone out bids him, or CK breaks the contract  

I obviously don’t know this particular contract. But in general, if all parties have signed. That’s it. They can’t modify or restructure/etc unless CK is deemed to have broken the contract. Again, unless there is a date for the deal to be done, it’s his deal. 
 

Which is I’m guessing what the EFL and Birch want to find out. 

16 minutes ago, jono said:

Except the the setter of the floor price hasn’t yet come up with the spondulics.. so is it a floor price ? Not saying that can’t change by tomorrow evening .. But saying to your local car dealer you are happy to pay a certain price, doesn’t mean you can drive off in your new motor. You haven’t paid, he hasn’t sold,  the market price hasn’t been established until you do. 

Ostensibly the floor price is set by CKs accepted bid by all parties. 
 

So:

1. CKs funds clear and he owns the club.

2. Someone else outbids him, and they own the club. 
 

that’s really it. Since his funds have been proven and amounts to be paid agreed. There is no offer below CKs ‘floor’ price that is currently acceptable. 

30 minutes ago, Ramos said:

True but that best bid only holds now surely for an amount of days - time is running out and if the money doesn’t surface from CK by Tuesday night surely it’s switch to the next best bid? Or get nothing if you’re a creditor. 

Sure. I’m just saying there has been no verified reason reported to suggest CK won’t complete the deal. Funds are there and have been proven. It’s just held up. 
 

And during the time the funds have been held up, Q made the correct decision to allow others to bid. 
 

So far nobody else wants to match or better CKs bid. So it’s still his until someone wants to beat his bid. 

22 minutes ago, Ramos said:

Or Q won’t even talk to him to allow him to… I don’t think we will ever know the full truth no matter what happens now. 

I refuse to believe any conspiracy theories. Mainly because they just don’t really exist in business. The truth is usually less complex. As in, Ashley tabling bids that are unacceptable, then his pride being hurt and starts telling his PR people to whine about being frozen out. That’s not conspiracy- that’s a pretty logical assumption. 
 

Logically, Q didn’t talk to anyone because of exclusivity. When they pulled that, they opened comms back up. That’s just the way deals work. 
 

However, if anyone wanted to rock up at any time with 50million or so in an escrow account, then yes, Q would have at least listened. But nobody has done that.
 

And now that bids can be made again, but with a floor price set, this should be straightforward. Best bid wins. That is currently CKs bid. 

6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I presume the point is that if the accepted bid isn't fulfilled then he doesn't have to match or beat it. So it's down to will he wait to see what happens with CKs bid.

My point is that all parties have agreed a floor price with the CK deal. That means they will not accept anything lower.
 

So there are no more negotiations to be had. Either you meet the floor price or bugger off. 

And the CK deal will only fall through if he turns out to be a proven criminal and his funds seized. As soon as they clear and hit the bank- it’s done- he’s the owner. 
 

CK will be the next owner of Derby County, unless someone else decides to outbid him. 
 

So all this bluster from the PR departments are meaningless.
 

Getting pretty tiresome with the media posts about Ashley (or anyone else) just wanting to be the clubs savior, and how he is ready to go. Bollocks. 

There is an accepted offer on the table, that has been agreed to by all parties. That sets a floor price.
 

Yet negotiations are still open, because of the reasons reported. So all he (or anyone else)has to do is match or (more likely) beat the current accepted offer- then he becomes the next owner of Derby County. It’s simple. There are no deals to be had here. A floor price has been established by all parties- so now it’s just best bid wins. 
 

And the fact he(or anyone else) is not just coming forward with an acceptable offer tells me they are not that serious about being the next owner. 

I'm seeing others say similar; there are really only two reasons CK will not be the next owner of Derby County: 

1. He actually turns out to be a money launderer and they seize his funds. 

2. Someone out-bids him and pays more for the club/debts/bills/etc. 

That's it. 

Side note (that will likely get me slagged a wee bit here): 

Q have been just fine as admins, and the fees they will be paid will be inline with other administrations/etc. They have not hampered anyone from making acceptable bids, they have not deliberately slowed the process from being complete. The only 'favorites' they have picked is the ONLY person to present a viable offer and signed the paperwork. 

Again: if ANYONE else wants to table a bid that matches or is better than CK's I will be delighted! 

I understand folks are stressed, and as such grasping at whatever straws are available. However, it has been (and continues to be) fairly straight forward. Some key points below. It has to do with money. None of the other fluff matters. Everyone has had a fair chance to buy the club. And if they want to buy the club can do so now with little issue. Any team or group who are kicking up dust on socials, are only doing so for style points. Because the only thing that will close this deal now are dollars handed over. 

1. Up until the moment of this post (that we are publicly aware of), the only bidder who has made an acceptable offer has been CK. That is why Q gave him exclusivity. 

2. Any other party was more then able to put forth an acceptable offer...but no one else did. 

3. Now with the exclusivity over, anyone can again make an offer. But, if it is not an acceptable offer- they can do one. There are no deals to be had here. 

4. CK has passed all the tests (proof of funds/fit and proper/etc.), and the moment his money clears- CK owns the club. 

5. If any other bidder would like to beat CK to owning the club, they WILL have to put forth a better offer than CK's. As it is still CK's deal until he is out-bid. Which again is why all the bluster and fluff of anyone (MA) being such a shrewd business man means nothing. Either he pays for the club (an acceptable amount, which has a number attached to it- per the admins) or he stops whinging and walk away. 

I've said it before, I don't really care who ends up owning the club. But The only person who has attempted to (and still likely could) close the deal has been CK. 

1 hour ago, TuffLuff said:

I guess he’s made himself part of the narrative, and he has some inside info into Kirchner’s camp so it at least helps give a rounded view on things. It just turns out he’s also a bit of a pillock.

One thing i will say though, and some won’t like it, but Ed Dawes was correct here. Kirchners deal was collapsing whether he got a deadline for Wednesday or Friday. 

But Ed Dawes has not been proven correct. The deal hasn't collapsed. If CK's money clears and hits the bank before any of the other supposed bidders puts a credible deal forward. Than that's it...CK owns the club. 

I personally don't give a rip who ends up owning the club. But the only person who has tried to get a deal done and has shown proof of funds, has been CK. If anyone else wants to do that- I'd be delighted! 

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Would that show where it was from or only what/when it was sold?

Of course, with any asset, the money had to come from somewhere at first. 
 

My point is, Crypto transactions are all public. It shows the movement of all the buys and sells. There would also be an initial transaction of turning cash into crypto.
 

Stock sales/Real Estate/etc are all behind a closed door. So technically would be easier to show what and where money came from through Crypto.

14 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Except if his money is from crypto he'd still have to prove it's provenance?

Large sums transferred internationally sometimes get hit with provenance checks. Doesn’t matter if it was acquired through stocks, paycheck, real estate, or Crypto. 
 

Crypto is pretty easy to show provenance. Since all transactions in crypto are publicly available. All CK would need to do is pull up and show the transaction hashes of when he sold the crypto and then the transaction hashes of when he then converted crypto into cash, and then the hash from  when he deposited that USD into a bank account. 
 

So, the holdup is on the clearing house confirming all of this. Nothing CK can do but wait for the money to clear. Once it does the sale is essentially complete.
 

Unless someone else wants to run up to Q with a cheque in hand that is the same amount or more then CK has proven and currently sat in a clearing house ?‍♂️

Hello Hello. Is there a process or place to potentially purchase tickets for someone else for the upcoming season? I am not yet sure, but am thinking about donating some tickets or potentially a season card to someone. I would like it to be as simple as just buying it and assigning it to someone who will be able to utilize it. But I imagine there will be more hurdles than that, especially since I currently live in the US. Thanks for any guidance. 

3 minutes ago, B4ev6is said:

He could help himself by telling everyone what is going off takes 2mins to send a tweet and then carrying on. Enjoying day of golf.

I understand that more information/details for (us) the general supporters would be nice. Especially how challenging this process has been. Yet, I just don't agree that CK needs to update anyone in this case.

The only thing that happened today, was a radio personality, and then some journos decided to spread fear, based on a routine process. Then everyone melted down. 

CK has no need to respond to conspiracy.

If a legit entity questioned a process or situation; then I would expect CK to respond. But not to wild speculation from radio folks and journos. 

Please rest easy tonight lad! We are all getting closer to a resolution. 

coyr

59 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

Who’s played him as a fiddle?

I know Ed isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, he’s not really mine and I’ll criticise him where it’s appropriate, but today he did the right thing and it’s fair to give him credit where it’s due. Kirchner might not like it, Nixon might not like it but they were both sat on the information as to why the takeover had hit a snag, but because it didn’t suit their versions they were keeping quiet. 

Ed went OTT with his morning message yes, and it was classic Dawes, but because he did Nixon came out giving us what he knew all of a sudden. Simon Stone was tweeting to add pressure on. White and Jordan at the very least gave it national coverage and did speak to Kirchner. Dan Roan chased Kirchner across a well kept field! By midday at least the fans could paint a picture of what was happening and get a clearer view. How many times can we say we’ve been given that over the last 18 months. It’s not about good or bad news, it’s that we had a right to know what’s going on. Look on here today, no huge dramas or too much gloom, we chatted, debated and had a bit of a laugh about what was happening because at least we had a good idea what was happening. Imagine if we’d had another day of silence whilst Kirchner played golf, the fans deserved to know what was happening. 

Ed started to pull back a little after lunch, and so did Radio Derby on their news bulletins until sportscene. There Ed said pretty much everything he knew at that point, which was a changing story and that Ashley and Appleby were now in the background. 

He did well today and it gave the fans a clearer picture. It’s only right that we give credit where it’s due.

I'm confused here. When did Dawes make his leading statement? I am unsure when he officially said it. Because I know Nixon made his comments this am, well over 15 hours ago, and then continued to update people that nothing has changed all day long. To which, as we come to find out at the end of the day...nothing has changed. The money is being looked at for its provenance, as Nixon reported this morning.

Nixon made his comment early in the morning, then stood by it all day, stating nothing is really amiss here. It is another hurdle to over come. 

Dawes, made his inflammatory statement this morning that the whole deal is collapsing (based on the same details). Then decided to walk that statement back with a comment/tweet tonight, stating that he has been informed that maybe everything is still ok. 

How, with the two above approaches, are you possibly of the position to say Dawes is correct, or even close to being a leveled journo on this topic?

3 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

Fair do’s to Dawes in fairness, been one step ahead of pretty much everything today and now has the icing on the cake of making Nixon throw his toys out of his pram

 

Surely I'm misunderstanding you. Dawes made a mess of an already messy situation, by making leading comments on the reason why the take over has yet to be completed. Nixon from many hours ago stated: There is a money holdup in the shape of provenance checks. Then all day long, he has kept stating the same thing: Nothing has changed, only that one thing still needs sorting. Even just a few minutes ago, Nixon again answering the same questions from people: Nothing has changed, still need the funds to be cleared. 

Nixon has been the most level headed Journo/voice today (and many days) when it has come to this particular Derby saga. 

1 minute ago, Yani P said:

Thing is if the funds have cleared and it's done then it wasn't really a Rollercoaster day..it was just a day where there were certain reporters pushing for a sensational story that was never there.

This fast food media can be a total nightmare at times and has whipped elements of the fan base into a feeding frenzy..

Hopefully we will know soon enough.

Agreed! Today has been one long unsubstantiated whinge fest from folks. But according to so many folks on here and socials, all the journos/Radio Shows/etc in the UK are saints! And they would never say anything for sensationalism or for personal/professional gain. ?‍♂️. 

Could their still be hurdles... of course! But, any deal of this size and complexity is a mine field. So...it is ripe for people to speculate and sow doubt and fear.