leroyoftherovers

Yep sometimes think coaches over complicate things to much, Rooney the rookie will make mistakes for sure but he's trying to implement a style and plan, will it be enough who knows, but that's  where we are with a limited squad to change things tactically. 

I don't think Shinnie was taken off just for fear of red ,first 20 we beat their press, Bowyer makes an adjustment by pressing higher, Rooney takes Shinnie off to accommodate another striker to exploit the space in the channels if we move it quickly. I'm not saying Rooney is a tactical genius but to imply he knows nothing (not saying you are) can't be right can it?

And that's possible as well - we saw it a bit different but either could be right, or indeed neither of us! ?
lIt's a real game of cat and mouse I reckon between coaches. 

Aye you could be right mate,to my eye I just thought Max was given the job of making the incisive forward pass from deep,when it wasn't coming off Morrison was then told to drop and do it or at least help him out either way your right we didn't get the right result. 

I don't think Shinnie was taken off just for fear of red ,first 20 we beat their press, Bowyer makes an adjustment by pressing higher, Rooney takes Shinnie off to accommodate another striker to exploit the space in the channels if we move it quickly. I'm not saying Rooney is a tactical genius but to imply he knows nothing (not saying you are) can't be right can it?

Now thats a decent challenge. I saw it slightly differently, in that Shinnie was playing poorly so was taken off, but Morrison was dropped back deep to restore the "double pivot" in midfield with bird and the 2 full backs were left pushed up, so the tactics were basically the same. 
Now that maybe not what was intended by Rooney and basically falls in the players not doing what was asked category - which is not on him. 
Either way we didn't get a positive outcome so it can't really be described as successful - so improvement somewhere is needed. Either in the analysis by the coaching team or in getting the players to do something closer to what is being asked. 
Good points tho - I don't think Rooney knows absolutely nothing, but he seems slow to identify and react at all, and then maybe is misdiagnosing the issues. 

There's been plenty of games where Shinnie has been on a yellow and stayed on the pitch because he was needed. But Friday the switch was tactical, Rooney needed to put two up front, said as much after the game. 
What a shame Fozzy wasn't playing as he might have played the long balls to capitalise on the change.

I don't think Shinnie was taken off just for fear of red ,first 20 we beat their press, Bowyer makes an adjustment by pressing higher, Rooney takes Shinnie off to accommodate another striker to exploit the space in the channels if we move it quickly. I'm not saying Rooney is a tactical genius but to imply he knows nothing (not saying you are) can't be right can it?

Granted no one wants to see us lose, but long ball and massive throw ins let's hope we aspire to more than that. 

Granted no one wants to see us lose, but long ball and massive throw ins let's hope we aspire to more than that. 

I don’t think you can argue we haven’t gone out and “played our football” in every game so far this season.
The problem is it isn’t good enough to get positive results against most teams in the division.
It’s funny how attitudes and priorities change with supporters. In recent seasons the fans have indicated they would be happy if we try and play good football and take it to the opposition. The results might not be there but at least we had a go.
I would imagine as the weeks go by and points go by the wayside there will be increasing unrest and the “Rooney out” threads will resurface.
Damned if you do…….

Bowyer said after the game that they had to adjust their press in the first half because we were getting out to easily .Second half Rooney did implement your plan by going two upfront to find space in the channels we just couldn't do it or we are not good enough? 

Can’t win Rooney really.
Last season he was bemoaned for not having a system, and most matches trying to match-up with our opponents.
This season he has developed a system, agreed ill suited to a number of our players, but at least he wants to try to play football. However it seems a good few now want him to change things to match-up with our opponents.
He has 15 established players, a good number on low wages, and a large number of inexperienced youngsters. The team spirit looks good, and at times last night played the ball around nicely. 
We lost last night because of one horrendous mistake, one unfortunate bit of luck, and because most of our forward players were off their game (Sibley, Lawrence and Baldock didn’t really contribute a great deal).
Rooney should never have come to the Club, blame Morris for that. We should, a club of our stature, have a pretty decent playing staff. We haven’t, blame Morris for that. 
Now though is a time to get right behind Rooney and all the players. Nothing is going to change until Morris goes, so let’s back our team to the hilt not undermine everything they are trying to achieve.

Bowyer said after the game that they had to adjust their press in the first half because we were getting out to easily .Second half Rooney did implement your plan by going two upfront to find space in the channels we just couldn't do it or we are not good enough? 

No way we're they "miles better than us". Now when we play West Brom next week that comment may be appropriate (but hopefully not). 

Here’s the plan….
Imagine the pitch divided up lengthways into 5 strips….
1 2 3 2 1 with 3 centrally being the widest one.
You don’t want players in the same strips occupying the same lines.
He is asking his CB to play a little more narrow than the conventional set up for playing out from the back where the CBs split and leave themselves exposed on turn over. So the CBs come short in zone 3 drawing forwards in for a press. 
 
The CMs then split and drop deeper but in zone (line) 2 and the FBs push on very high in zone (line) 1.
The 10 now drops into spaces left in zone 3 and the 11 and the 7 come inside and play in zone (line) 2 and get closer to the CF.
Almost like this :-
                     1    
               5.         6.   
      4.                            8.  
                     10. 
2.                                       3.  
            7.               11.  
                      9. 
 
The aim is to give width with the full backs and an overload with the 4, 8, 10, 7 and 11 in central areas but also to provide defensive strength centrally on the turn over. It’s an alternative or an evolution of Peps inverted full backs. 
One of the problems we had yesterday with this working was the 7 and 11. Joz and Watson. Joz wants to play more as an orthodox winger and stays too wide and he blocks off the areas we wanted to expose for Byrne to get forward. Watson did similar and never quite got into the game enough to enable us to retain possession and get close to CKR. The only real time it worked was for Birds through ball where’s Watson's movement inside was timed perfectly. 
It’s why Sibley looked more effective as he is happier playing in those inside areas, getting in good areas and also stretching the game giving centre backs more to think about allowing CKR more space. 
Ebosele didn’t do it as effectively on the other side and my feelings on Festy are that he is going to suit the system far better coming from the full back position working in line 1 than he will as the 7 or 11 and being asked to play in the pockets. 

Morrison will also suit this system however the jury for me is out on how effective he’ll be and whether he will do the required work out of possession or whether he will change history and perform for longer periods of fine now he has secured a contract. 
In summary, at the moment, Joz may well suit a role from the bench and exploiting tired legs and stretching teams. My front three midfield players would be Morrison / Sibley / Lawrence in any rotation. Watson for me may well be better suited to the Bird role and I see him as his back up ahead of Thompson and the reason Carrol isn’t really needed. 
 

The way I see it is that if a keeper doesn't come for a cross on or inside the six yard box they are rendering themselves redundant in the event of an opposition player attacking the ball. 
There is little chance they could save an effort on goal from there. 
If they do go for the cross they can at least put the opponent off and it's easier to get your body between the header and the goal if you don't get to the cross. 
A six foot four keeper with a big wing span has every advantage. 

I'll start. For me it's criminal to see Sibbo on the bench. Heartbreaking to see Rooney squander our best talent for whatever reason. But let's hope we have enough to actually score some goals and get the win.

Seriously?  We had warnings from day one from members of other clubs.  If you chose to ignore them, that's on you.
Both were more likely chancers than not, hindsight not required.
 

I'm afraid that's not necessarily true - It's definitely one possibility but not the only one
If they think it's money now or no money later then they would want to get a fee
If they thought he was 99% likely to stay just delaying a decision then they'd probably wait
If the kid of 50/50 about staying or going somewhere else they need to try and get what they can for him now as that's too big a risk to take on the whims of a kid who's head will get turned by a bigger club showing interest
Kaide has to do what's right for him obviously - But this seems more about maximising the money they get rather than being desperate to offload someone

Unfortunately that is football now - The money side of the game is so important especially to a club like ours which doesn't have PL revenues but aims to compete at the top level
He might be 16 but that's the exact age when potential professionals have to make some kind of commitment - Fully appreciate he's just a kid but he's also old enough to have left school and be in full time employment now - And why should the club give him time to make a decision for his benefit which might screw them over?
From a club standpoint if an offer is/was on the table and he's chosen not to take it Derby have to look out for the investment they've made in him - We have a manager who was playing first team football at this age and made a firm and decisive commitment to the club who developed him so will probably expect that of other people too

Don't think it's about what we want or need, its all about what Kaide wants and needs, feels like he has all the power. 

A player in demand always will and I expect that is the root cause of his departure, no doubt.
 
However my point is that in this instance, it probably suited all parties given where we are with our cash flow.

Why would we loan him back to develop him for Liverpool? Doesn't make sense. Our academy is there to develop our players.
The lad is only 16, and although he is a bright young star, he isn't ready for first team football yet. I wouldn't want us to rely on him to get us out of our current mess.
If/when he signs for someone else, he will be in with their youth system for another couple of seasons perhaps with some cup appearances in the first team. Don't expect him to be loaned out and star for any first team for a while yet.
This is like Delap, once he's gone he's gone. The best we can do is get a fee for his potential and have add-ons based on a percentage of his next transfer. If he does well and gets a high value transfer we will get a decent portion based on how his next team (Liverpool) will have helped his development and value increase. If he fades away then we've got a good fee now for someone that didn't quite live up to the hype.

Just watched his post match interview, what a guy, just praising the team today for getting him out of trouble.....I proper love the bloke, so down to earth and I honestly think as much an importance to our upturn as the sacking of Cocu and full time appointment of Rooney