DCFC1388

The good thing about our defence is that we can make changes and still keep clean sheets.
We changed 3 of the back 4 today & looked solid, changed it a few times vs Swansea & looked solid too, also changed GK without any disruption.
Start scoring some goals & continue with our strong defence we will soon rise up the table.

Yay, I’m going to this!! After a brain haemorrhage and then lockdown I thought I’d never get to PP again. However, I’ve recovered really well over the summer, especially worked hard to improve physically and my partner is letting my son take me to the match - he’s much more worried than I am!
So, Rams, I’d appreciate a good performance and a win - though whatever happens I’ll feel like a winner just getting there.

The good thing about our defence is that we can make changes and still keep clean sheets.
We changed 3 of the back 4 today & looked solid, changed it a few times vs Swansea & looked solid too, also changed GK without any disruption.
Start scoring some goals & continue with our strong defence we will soon rise up the table.

The good thing about our defence is that we can make changes and still keep clean sheets.
We changed 3 of the back 4 today & looked solid, changed it a few times vs Swansea & looked solid too, also changed GK without any disruption.
Start scoring some goals & continue with our strong defence we will soon rise up the table.

Good to have CKR back!

Good to have CKR back!

Rooney stating there is an outside chance of CKR being involved vs Coventry next Saturday,  if he isn't able to play until Jan I don't think Rooney would say this

The problem here is that most of the people who've formed an opinion of us know very little about what's actually gone on, and are basing their views on sensationalist headlines, untrue and/or misleading write-ups telling only half the story, and what they read on that poo stain of the internet known as Twitter.
All they read is that we've broken some rule or other, that's enough to condemn us. Never mind that we've only broken a rule because the terms of engagement have changed, or that ultimately it's boiled down to one person's opinion overruling multiple others on a technicality.
I think it's summed up by your line about us being viewed as seeking an unfair advantage, we simply haven't - we've sought a competitive advantage, which isn't the same thing at all.
A lot of our actions have been an attempt to even out the genuinely unfair advantage gained by teams in receipt of parachute payments, that gained by those who've blatantly set out to make a mockery of spending limits - clubs like Villa who basically just bought every single sought-after midfielder in the division at one stage - or that gained by a club like Wolves signing Champions League quality players & managers from a closed market (and as such at well below market value) while deferring a massive chunk of their wages until such a point they achieve the inevitable promotion signing those players/that manager would bring. Throw in those with owners of two clubs in separate counties trading between themselves for good measure.
We've doubtless gone too far with it, of course, hence ending up in this position. Nobody is saying we're blameless or that Mel Morris hasn't well and truly messed it up, but an unfair advantage, really? It's nonsense.
In saying "The EFL and its constituent clubs currently view your club with so much suspicion" you make it sound like there are far more clubs who are emotionally / morally invested in our situation than there really are.
The only people to really speak up are Boro, Wycombe & Rotherham. There's little evidence that there's a whole host of clubs baying for some sort of justice - plenty of evidence of fans of other clubs doing so, but they're mostly hypocrites who've forgotten their own club's past misdeeds.
Nobody really seemed to have a problem with us until one chairman went running to them to complain about us after we pipped his team to a play-off spot (because our £4m striker gave us an advantage over them that their £15m striker didn't give them over us!).
Without that and the Kieran Maguire writing letters to the EFL about our amortisation policy it's debatable whether or not the EFL would ever even have opened a case against us.

I can see how it might look to an outsider, but I'm simply applying logic to the catalogue of things that the EFL have said and done since the whole saga started with Gibson announcing he was intending to sue Derby and the EFL, 2 days before the 2019 play-off final. I can't blame either of them for the decision to start the game with Mason Bennett instead of an in-form Jack Marriott (thanks Frankie!), but since that day it's been clear that they want to destroy Derby, by hook or by crook, because it suits their agenda to a T. It's worth reminding all visitors to this forum that no EFL (or other) rules were broken in respect of the stadium sale or the method of player amortisation adopted. The EFL finally nailed us on a technicality, for which the punishment will far exceed the 'breach'. It's worth remembering that, while clubs like DCFC and SWFC are regarded as 'cheats' who "deserve everything they get", successful cheats happily ply their trade in the Premier League, raking in hundreds of millions of pounds, and face no sanction in the event of their relegation back to the EFL, not even the cancellation of their Parachute Payments!! It's perverse.
I note your general good wishes and don't want it to sound like I'm berating you, but there really is more to this than the EFL simply "upholding the rules" - it's highly political and it will have implications for other clubs whose fans are currently sticking the boot into DCFC at every opportunity, though they don't realise it yet.
 

You’re applying hindsight, which is not rational or reasonable. The club’s mindset at start of 20/21 season would’ve been to be competitive whilst still reducing wages etc. At the point of pre-season, the govt indicated lockdown was ending, some London clubs had fans back in and most clubs would’ve been expecting fans back in by start of season. Only for Euro 2020 to be delayed and lockdowns managed by tier and region before going nationwide.
 
Selling Bogle and signing Byrne for a much smaller fee would indicate a measurement of cost saving work. Selling players on the cheap is sign of bad business, not good business, if you’re giving away Lawrence and Buchanan for £4m, you may as well shut the club down for good.
 
Not making rubbish decisions is not punishable. Similarly, those sales would represent losses in P&S! 
 
having a professional squad is a minimum expectance, and had we had a normal/standard year of turnover, administration would NOT have happened. How can you not understand this? 
 
do you think the club should’ve not bothered trying to build a team on the off chance they’d miss a whole year of gate receipts?? How would they have known? 

I’m glad the administrators are appealing the deduction, it may not work, but I think it has a good chance when I read the rules on the EFL site.
If they have the proof of the bits in bold being true, and I’d have thought the accounts would show this very clearly, then why wouldn’t you appeal it?
This is different to Wigan’s situation that keeps being mentioned, their owner bought the club during Covid, you cannot argue they did their due diligence when we were already in lockdown when they purchased the club, they at the very least would have known the possibility of it continuing at that point.
I think you have to ask yourself, prior to Covid would you ever have anticipated what happened? Around 18 months of no one being in Pride Park, losing two thirds of your income but still having to try and cover all of your outgoings? I know I wouldn’t. How can you possibly have a contingency plan that covers that large an amount?
Yes, other clubs have lost money too due to Covid, but this isn’t about them, this is about how it affected us and us only, and is subject to the rules above. I think it’s best to ignore the noise from fans of other clubs.

I am very pleased that we are appealing this - we have suffered a £20 million loss directly and factually from ticket sales due to covid from loss of sales of tickets - we were never in danger of administration prior to that - the EFL have stopped us from spending money because they know we simply didn’t have it coming in and they were constantly looking for guarantees of who is going to pay our bills before Administration. Our losses are provable due to Covid and what other clubs do is of no relevance to our appeal.
if the administrators believe we should appeal then they clearly believe we have a case and they are the money men! 
if the the EFL believe no one should ever win an appeal against administration then why have one available ?

Hopefully the embargo can change its type by January then

The huge difference is that the administrators opinion is based on them being experts in the field and with all of the financial information to hand.
The medias opinion is based on nothing other than guesswork. 

Quoting my own words here . 
Think about this !! ??
Why would you sack 20 people saving on wages then spend 300k on the possible outcome of a negative appeal on the -12 . 
You wouldnt would you .
There is alot going off behind closed doors . Believe me we will win the appeal and it will be either 0 points deducted or -6 . But its going to come at a cost of accepting the 2nd one so we cant appeal it . There is a possibility we could just end up with -9  or get 2 x -6  . Somethings cooking behind the scenes as you dont spend 300k without knowing the result having sacked around 20 jobs . If you dont believe this then your probably in the same group as who believe Diana Spencer was accidently killed in that car crash .........wakey wakey people . 

The thing is that it's not really a loophole - the clause is there to make allowances for unprecedented things impacting a club's ability to operate - they don't come much more unprecedented than a global pandemic that has killed millions and caused football matches to be played witthout crowds for over 12 months.....

The independent panel won’t really care (or at least they shouldn’t really care) whether or not other clubs will try to do the same thing. All they will care about is the rules.
If the rules don’t allow any wiggle room, then on what basis would the panel be able to find in our favour?  If the rules do allow for it, and we are successful, I imagine the fist thing the EFL will do is close the loophole so that nobody else can exploit it.
FWIW I can’t see us being successful, but if you don’t ask you don’t get. 

I think we have a case here. If we didn’t the administrators wouldn’t be trying it. It also to some degree explains the emphasis on Covid in Mel’s statements and interviews. 
The argument against is - no other club has gone into administration. Very true at the moment, but pretty much every other club at this level runs on a benefactor model. If the benefactor pulls out and there is no buyer then administration is inevitable. If Maranakis pulled out Forest would be in admin, likewise Gibson and Boro etc etc. Therefore this IMO can’t really be used as an argument. Who are we to know Mel’s situation, he could’ve had his other investments devastated by Covid. 
What they will be looking at is would we be unsustainable if Covid had not happened. We were taking steps to reduce the wage bill pre-covid, with our wage bill where it is now then there is a strong argument to suggest we would be sustainable had we not lost £20m in revenue. Wigan couldn’t use this argument, Covid had barely happened and their situation clearly would have arisen with or without Covid - their issue was the legitimacy of the people buying the club. If this had been Forest and not us, then they wouldn’t succeed either due to the transfer window they had last summer and maintaining a wage bill of £30m+. If we had been continuing to spend at 17/18 and 18/19 levels then we would undoubtedly fail this argument - we may yet as we don’t know what the accounts say. 
The other factor to consider is would we have sold the club without Covid. We would certainly be more attractive as we wouldn’t have the debt that has been accrued to keep the club going without £20m loss in revenue, the club had been sold as well prior to Covid only for the EFL charge to destroy that deal. Selling the club would have avoided administration and that is usually the get out benefactors use when they’ve had enough. There is a legitimate argument to say the uncertainty created by Covid restricted Mel’s ability to sell the club, and administration is an inevitable consequence.
The other thing that goes in our favour is we’re not asking for a complete reversal of the points deduction, we are saying Covid is a mitigating factor in our administration but not the sole cause. Mel’s running of the club is most definitely a contributory factor to us going into administration but not the sole factor, and the clubs argument will be that we would have coped and traded through if not for a Covid causing a 2/3 drop in revenue.
This isn’t vindication for Mel Morris by any stretch but the Covid impact is undeniable and as a result I think we have a case. Be interesting to see if we succeed. 

It will be also interesting to see how the EFLs actions on the £8m loan are viewed, Derby didn’t meet the criteria means a multitude of things, but one being any club under an EFL disciplinary procedure is ineligible, a disciplinary action against Derby on P&S which we have long debated the legitimacy and validity of. 

I think this is a waste of time, but if by some absolute miracle we get the deduction removed or reduced the boiled piss from the rest of the teams and their fans in the division would be absolutely glorious.
Mr Pop would explode like a stick of dynamite.

Who is to say the appeal may not be being funded by one of the potential buyers?
For Derby to stay in the Championship would be high on a list of priorities for any potential buyer.

I think a buyer would be happy to spend 300k trying to reduce the points so we have more chance of staying up which will result in more income being in the Champ over League 1

I think a buyer would be happy to spend 300k trying to reduce the points so we have more chance of staying up which will result in more income being in the Champ over League 1

May as well appeal, the worst is 12 for admin + 9 for p&s, so new possible owners will know that already.
An appeal means it could go from 21 overall to 15, which we have overtuned 14 of already.
There is no doubting covid has had a huge impact on our income, whether that is 5m or 20m, had we received that money we may have stayed out of admin, how much we were losing a month/year before covid is irrelevant as the club still didnt go into administration then.
Good to see 4 groups (Evans, Moxey consortium, Brit abroad & then Carlisle Group) mentioned with then maybe Ashley & possibly the Gary Cook group who have been sniffing around since Alonso. Shows we are still an attractive club to buy.

I think a buyer would be happy to spend 300k trying to reduce the points so we have more chance of staying up which will result in more income being in the Champ over League 1