ImARam2

My grandmother and uncles lived on Douglas Street, Normanton, which is about 800 yards from the BBG, and whenever I stayed with her I'd watch the fans walk to the ground in the 1950's, sitting on the Grange Pub wall with my bottle of pop & packet of crisps, and I could hear the roar of the crowd from that distance and wondered what it was all about.
Well, it's 60 years, this year, (January 1962) since I first stood in the Boys End/corner of the BBG, aged 9 years old and although it was only a reserve game against Bolton Wanderers, I can remember it as if it was yesterday.
My Dad was was an ex-Polish para, who came to live in Derby in 1947, and along with his other Polish mates, and they didn't have much money for entertainment, so the only thing they could afford was the pub or going to the match and although he didn't go to every game he always enjoyed his football. So, it was my Dad who took me and my brother a few months later, in April 1962, to my first team game and I was hooked for life, and, subsequently, wherever I've worked in the world (Middle East; S.E. Asia; America), I've taken The Rams with me, always looking for their results, especially difficult in the USA where all the results they publish are baseball, basketball or American 'football'.
Working in the middle of a Saudi Arabian airfield was fun (!!) and trying to pickup the BBC World Service game and results, through the atmospherics, on a Saturday afternoon, wasn't always clear, especially when you was listening for the Derby result and it went something like,... 'Derby 2, Forest .......and all you then heard over the airwaves for the next few minutes was static and crackle!!!!
I've worked with many nationalities, especially in the middle east, and football is a main topic of conversation amongst many of the Arab men, and whenever I've mentioned that I'm from Derby and a Rams fan, many of them knew of the Clough & Taylor teams and players, as well as the Jim Smith teams, as by then satellite television was beaming the Premier matches overseas.
Over the 60 years of supporting my only club, I've seen the very highs and the lowest of lows, particularly now; I've watched some of the very best of English football with amazing players of international standards, and some awful 'duffers' and 'has-beens' who should have never been bought.
Whatever happens this week, and surely to God, Derby County Football Club will survive and eventually go on to better days, I am so proud to have supported my home town/city club who have given me so much pleasure (and despair) over the past 60 years.
'Come On You Rams'

Continuing the above rather long post...
I can't believe the statements/interviews still coming from Parry/the EFL and the new liquidation/league 2 rumour from Nixon.  I suppose we should be congratulating the EFL on thinking outside the box for the latter, but I think they've lost the plot or at the least dropped their moral compass.  Why can't they see that litigation is not good for the game and this trumps the interests of two clubs?  Why can't they see that the losers of administration are the non-football creditors, why pursue an outcome that damages those creditors even more?  
It seems so obvious to me that they should be discouraging the two claims against Derby.  This is the best route for the real creditors.  If I were the EFL I'd release a statement along the lines of:
The EFL are saddened by the disputes that have arisen in relation to Derby County's Profit and Sustainability (P&S) submissions.  Derby County have been through an extensive and thorough disciplinary procedure lasting over several years.  This has culminated in the 9 point deduction this season.  The EFL consider this a suitable outcome and would like to now draw a line under this matter.  We expect clubs to respect the leagues disciplinary procedure for on-field events.  We ask that clubs do the same for off-field events.
P&S was never intended to give a level financial playing field for clubs.  It is a limit and deterrent for reckless spending by owners and is there to protect the future of clubs, fans and the many creditors.  When the P&S rules are broken it is the fans, staff and creditors of the offending club who potentially suffer.  This unfortunately can currently be seen in Derby County's administration.  P&S was not intended to be a reason for litigation between clubs.  The disputes that have arisen against Derby County are currently a significant hurdle to securing the future of the club, the very opposite of the P&S aims.
Many fans have expressed their concerns about football being decided in the courtroom and the EFL share those concerns.  EFL club disputes are resolved through an arbitration process, but we recognise this is still not the beautiful game.  The EFL will review and if necessary amend their policies to discourage disputes that harm the interests of the league as a whole.
 
If I can write the above in five minutes, why are the EFL finding it so hard to do the same?

Personally I don't think fans should be focusing on what is and isn't a football creditor.  Few of us have the legal expertise to make solid arguments about this or the finer points of insolvency law.  Besides it is moving the focus away from where it should be.
This whole mess started because the EFL gave the green light for Middlesbrough to sue Derby.  When they did this they lost control of the league.  The pragmatic solution is for the EFL to regain control.
Presumably Middlesbrough presented evidence to the EFL about our "cheating".  If the EFL didn't act on that then I have no problem with Middlesbrough threatening to sue the EFL.  But what should never have taken place, was for the EFL to say you can sue Derby on the back of our investigation.  That was effectively saying the punishment - and crucially the recompense - would not be appropriate.  
Middlesbrough are suing Derby because they don't think they've been compensated.  However, that isn't true and we need to be making this point a lot louder.  Firstly, Derby have been hit by transfer embargos for 3 seasons (or more?) now.  That has severely weakened us and consequently helped every other club (including Middlesbrough) in the league over those seasons.  The original transfer embargo was for the stadium sale which we were ultimately cleared of, so we have been wrongly punished too. 
The Tevez saga has been quoted a few times in reports and there are similarities to our case, but there are significant differences.  West Ham knowingly broke and hid their illegal registration of Tevez.  They were fined for this during the season, but continued to play Tevez.  Sheffield Utd had a collapse of form and were relegated on goal difference.  Sheffield Utd were able to demonstrate that the fine was not appropriate (it should have been a points deduction) and by continuing to play Tevez West Ham earned a minimum of three points.  It was settled out of court because the West Ham owners were desperate to sell the club (the owners had financial issues).
Unlike West Ham we have received a points deduction and therefore the appropriate punishment.  Like the transfer embargos it has weakened us and helped all other clubs, giving them a 9 point head start on us.  If this was a normal season it would have ended our playoff hopes.  Surely removing a promotion rival is compensation?
A points deduction is the most appropriate punishment for FFP/P&S breaches as far as I can see.  Fining clubs would only mean they'll breach P&S again in subsequent seasons.  The Middlesbrough and Wycombe claims if paid in instalments would screw us for years and we'll be hit with P&S breach after breach with of course other clubs potentially suing us on the back of those breaches should we interfere with their promotion/relegation.  What a mess!
Middlesbrough's action is implying that they were uniquely wronged by us in the Lampard season, but of course that isn't true if the basis of their claim is that our squad was stronger than it should have been.  Bristol City for example would have an equal grievance.  This is why the EFL should never have agreed to Middlesbrough suing.  If they win their claim they have a competitive advantage over Bristol City unless they sue us too.
If Middlesbrough's claim is that we should have received a points deduction in the Lampard season for previous season's breaches, then their claim is on similar grounds to Wycombe's, but the two clubs are asking for points deductions to be applied differently.  Middlesbrough are asking for points deductions on a season following a breach.  Wycombe are asking for a points deduction to be applied on the same season as a breach.  They cannot both be right.  There is no guarantee in the rules on when a points deduction would be applied, and if a proper investigation and appeals process are to happen then it would be impossible to do so.  If these are the basis of the claims it should be the EFL who is being sued if anyone.
What happens if Middlesbrough reach the playoff final and loose controversially, for example a deliberate (unpunished) handball scoring or stopping a goal? Are they then going to sue the opposition or the EFL for the rules not being properly applied and the other club cheating?  Where does this litigation end?
When a manager or player questions (particularly using threatening language) how rules are being applied by referees they are fined.  Presumably on the grounds of bringing the game into disrepute.
Middlesbrough and Wycombe through their legal cases are bringing the game into disrepute.  Their claims are clearly vexatious.  The EFL need to call this out and it is staggering after Tuesdays grilling in the House of Commons that they don't do this!  There is nothing controversial in saying we stand by our own disciplinary procedures. It is what people would expect them to say.  This should be the pragmatic solution.
Yet their latest statement still rules this out.  So on that basis the idea of getting Tracey Crouch or somebody else in as an independent opinion (not necessarily arbitration) seems the next best option. 

Lovely picture of the fountains, which I believe are outside the Burj Al Khalifia in Dubai.
I've had many a great night in the bars, clubs & restaurants in this part of the city , and the building on the far left of the picture is where I lived for 9 years when I resided in Dubai.

I was 18 years old in 1970, football mad and went to every home game, and many away matches, which were great days out, usually on the train.
Six of us from Allestree FC went to Newquay in 1970, which was just brilliant - sun, sand, surfing and girls - what a time to be alive, but we all came back on the Friday evening to ensure we got to the Rams vs Man. Utd Watney Cup Final, at the BBG, which we won 4-0.
Memories which cannot be taken back - wonderful days

I was in the Toyota hospitality today, and the main match sponsors gave Jason Knight the man-of-the-match.
Roger Davies in his interview asked how good was it to play in and Knight said, "it was not bad but I felt great".

I'm in the Toyota hospitality suite - can I shout and make a noise from the 'posh seats'?

Would there be as many moans if we had lost to Fulham, where they battered us with shots, and got a draw vs QPR?
Of course not, and the points would have been the same : 4.

Would there be as many moans if we had lost to Fulham, where they battered us with shots, and got a draw vs QPR?
Of course not, and the points would have been the same : 4.

Me too. If you don't know much about them, watch this uplifting video.
 

Great to see the Punjabi Rams awarded with the Fans for Diversity Award tonight at the FSA. ????
 

Well I'm back after a torrid week - more on that in another thread.
It was a great game of football last night, but we ended up being beaten because of 4 key moments. Number 1: A wayward clearance was turned into an attack by a brilliant flick of the ball in the centre circle by Max Bird, with the ball then being crossed to Tom Lawrence in the box. And not for the first or last time he lost his footing. Put that chance away and its game over. Number 2: their first goal came because of very sloppy defending. Their counter attack was very quick and effective, but they had been playing like that in the first half without really threatening. Shinnie backing off was the issue. Number 3: Ebosele threatening down the right, tussling with two defenders was being pulled back for what seemed like 10 or 15 yards, and was a blatantly clear free kick, and a yellow - I can't remember if any QPR defenders could have got to him, but some were saying it could have been a red. That was a major point in the match. Number 4: This one hasn't been mentioned, as far as I know. We attacked down our left and Tom was running onto the ball right near the corner flag when the QPR defender simply bumped into him, and gave him a two handed shove which put him off balance. The defender ran off with the ball and its game over for us. We should have defended properly, but there shouldn't have been an attack to defend.
Surprising for me, (and to me!) the ref had a great game in the first half, despite him missing two or three clear handballs, and he lasted until about the 50th minute before he flipped into EFL purge mode. Knight was threatening down the right and was dispensing with the challenges of the defender when the player behind him simply took Jason's feet away. Definite free kick, definite yellow card, given the threat Jason was posing. The ref let it go. From then on he kept reminding us that no matter how good QPR may be, they are still a bunch of Southern Softies who dive and whinge at every opportunity, and they got most of the decisions from then onwards. 
Ultimately if we defend like we did for those two goals, then we aren't likely to win, and without a consistent striker the struggle continues. Tom had his chances, and took one, but could and should have done better with the other two. But Morrison excepted the lads busted a gut yet again, but it was a match too far. Its not so much the number of games played in a short space of time, more that it was 3 games against arguably the best in the division. If we had played QPR before the others we may well have fared better, but the other two matches took too much out of us, particularly mentally, which is why we saw so many sloppy passes. I can only assume that Ebosele didn't start because Wayne is looking after him - play him too much and he could burn out and throw his future away. The same probably applies to Watson and to a degree Sibley, although both of those could have shown Morrison what is required of him. 
Right.  Brush our hands together, dust ourselves down and go again. If we play like we have been doing, we should see start bringing some points in, then who knows? 
 

Just because an organisation stonewalls and gets defensive doesn't mean that those kind of questions should not be asked.  The questions are perfectly fair and the answers speak for themselves, and would lead many fans to conclude that the real answer to both questions is YES and NO respectively.  
What this amounts to is that the EFL took a personal dislike to MM and used all the regulatory tools at their disposal in order to duck him up.  They would have done this whichever club he happened to own.  Not that they will ever admit it of course.
In most workplaces this stuff goes on all the time.  If your boss wants rid of you all they have to do is set you up to fail, subject you to endless 'performance reviews', forensically trawl your expense claims etc etc in order to find something, anything, that can be used as an excuse to then invoke the disciplinary process, and eventually most people will see the writing on the wall and just leave.  This is just a variation on that theme.  It's all about power. 
 

I know mate.
The situation is absolutely dire and we may yet go out of business, but strangely, attending the games is brilliant atm. The 20,000 or so that are there, want to be there, I stand in the middle of the South Stand and look left and right at people out of their seats in the West and East stands joining in the singing. Its never been so loud and proud.
The looks on the faces of the players after the final whistle applauding the fans was incredible. One or two on here have mentioned they had a tear in their eye leaving the ground, its what football is all about imo. When your backs are to the wall, you fight back, give everything and don't give a duck what anyone else says.
Away matches will be sold out, many are booking Blackpool hotels for the last away game already.
We will probably go down, but we'll go down kicking and screaming.
?

Hi
Bournemouth supporter here and congratulations on the win yesterday. Should have been a draw but that's not what I came on here for.
In 2008-09 we were on zero points after 19 games - having started on -17. We were also under a transfer embargo, were struggling to pay players and had a  team with several on-league and out-of-contract recruits. For us the rest is History as Eddie Howe stepped up from youth team coach on 1st  January, lost his first 2 games but we stayed up on 46 points. 
OK! OK! I know it was League 2, and you don't want a Bournemouth history lesson. My point simply is - it can be done. Your home support may just help -it was pretty impressive yesterday.
Hope you manage it.
Good luck.

The majority of matches on a Saturday afternoon with 3.00 pm kick-off's.
As someone has already mentioned, football is football, and if it's played by Derby County, and you support them, then you'll follow them in whatever division they will be playing in.
You might not think some of those clubs are "big clubs", but there's Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesaday & Ipswich, who were, not too long agao on par with us in the Championship and higher. And the "smaller clubs" will surprise us as they up their game and try to rough you up if you don't have some muscle and stand up to them.
At times it won't be pretty but if we've had an injection of money for new players, then we'll see some good games, and besides. we'll be going to grounds and see other teams that we've never played against before.
Their fans will give us some stick but we can take it and give it back - Come on you Rams!!

The majority of matches on a Saturday afternoon with 3.00 pm kick-off's.
As someone has already mentioned, football is football, and if it's played by Derby County, and you support them, then you'll follow them in whatever division they will be playing in.
You might not think some of those clubs are "big clubs", but there's Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesaday & Ipswich, who were, not too long agao on par with us in the Championship and higher. And the "smaller clubs" will surprise us as they up their game and try to rough you up if you don't have some muscle and stand up to them.
At times it won't be pretty but if we've had an injection of money for new players, then we'll see some good games, and besides. we'll be going to grounds and see other teams that we've never played against before.
Their fans will give us some stick but we can take it and give it back - Come on you Rams!!

The majority of matches on a Saturday afternoon with 3.00 pm kick-off's.
As someone has already mentioned, football is football, and if it's played by Derby County, and you support them, then you'll follow them in whatever division they will be playing in.
You might not think some of those clubs are "big clubs", but there's Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesaday & Ipswich, who were, not too long agao on par with us in the Championship and higher. And the "smaller clubs" will surprise us as they up their game and try to rough you up if you don't have some muscle and stand up to them.
At times it won't be pretty but if we've had an injection of money for new players, then we'll see some good games, and besides. we'll be going to grounds and see other teams that we've never played against before.
Their fans will give us some stick but we can take it and give it back - Come on you Rams!!

The majority of matches on a Saturday afternoon with 3.00 pm kick-off's.
As someone has already mentioned, football is football, and if it's played by Derby County, and you support them, then you'll follow them in whatever division they will be playing in.
You might not think some of those clubs are "big clubs", but there's Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesaday & Ipswich, who were, not too long agao on par with us in the Championship and higher. And the "smaller clubs" will surprise us as they up their game and try to rough you up if you don't have some muscle and stand up to them.
At times it won't be pretty but if we've had an injection of money for new players, then we'll see some good games, and besides. we'll be going to grounds and see other teams that we've never played against before.
Their fans will give us some stick but we can take it and give it back - Come on you Rams!!

The majority of matches on a Saturday afternoon with 3.00 pm kick-off's.
As someone has already mentioned, football is football, and if it's played by Derby County, and you support them, then you'll follow them in whatever division they will be playing in.
You might not think some of those clubs are "big clubs", but there's Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesaday & Ipswich, who were, not too long agao on par with us in the Championship and higher. And the "smaller clubs" will surprise us as they up their game and try to rough you up if you don't have some muscle and stand up to them.
At times it won't be pretty but if we've had an injection of money for new players, then we'll see some good games, and besides. we'll be going to grounds and see other teams that we've never played against before.
Their fans will give us some stick but we can take it and give it back - Come on you Rams!!

The majority of matches on a Saturday afternoon with 3.00 pm kick-off's.
As someone has already mentioned, football is football, and if it's played by Derby County, and you support them, then you'll follow them in whatever division they will be playing in.
You might not think some of those clubs are "big clubs", but there's Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesaday & Ipswich, who were, not too long agao on par with us in the Championship and higher. And the "smaller clubs" will surprise us as they up their game and try to rough you up if you don't have some muscle and stand up to them.
At times it won't be pretty but if we've had an injection of money for new players, then we'll see some good games, and besides. we'll be going to grounds and see other teams that we've never played against before.
Their fans will give us some stick but we can take it and give it back - Come on you Rams!!

Although I watched every home game between 1967 and 1975, how the 'ell did he play in the mud of the BBG, with such skill and accuracy of crosses?
His strength of shooting was fantastic, and I believe they had a competition who had the hardest shot - was it won by Peter Lorimer?

Although I watched every home game between 1967 and 1975, how the 'ell did he play in the mud of the BBG, with such skill and accuracy of crosses?
His strength of shooting was fantastic, and I believe they had a competition who had the hardest shot - was it won by Peter Lorimer?