NottsRam77

Friendly schmendly

It’s about minutes, fitness and building relationships on the pitch and avoiding injuries 

nothing else is of importance win , lose of draw 

44 minutes ago, MK-Ram said:

Whoever is playing Forest that week

This lol 

18 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Such is the negativity on here by some if we were in the pub discussing dcfc I'd have to move tables in all honesty. 

Or realistic perhaps ?

given how last season transpired and how we are meandering through the close season with no clearer indication to our ownership, financial future or efl embargo 

if we finished mid table with some more academy talents broken in I’d be delighted … I’m hopeful and perhaps optimistically thinking maybe Rooney can Create a lovely blend of old and young (assuming we can sign them)

but I’m sure as hell a little worried as to how this season may pan out

so much uncertainty surrounding us to not be worried imo  

48 minutes ago, KBB said:

Get CKR and super Curtis Davies to take him under their wings. Job done.

It’s actually a very fair and valid point 

U would hope at 28 he may have learnt a few life lessons and as u say with some proper senior pros around him in what is hopefully a tight knit squad he could be quite something if we can be the club to unleash that obvious ability 

36 minutes ago, San Fran Van Rams said:

No - there a different between blind optimism (which resulted in Derby County not having enough liquidity to pay players' wages) and going into this blind. This is the point I'm trying to make. And looking at your other posts you are too? Not quite sure what your gripe is.

Mel and Pearce et al put far too much faith into BZI coming in and saving the day. The same then happened when Del Boy Alonso came in. I've even read recent articles that state that Mel never even met BZI. Any due diligence that was done on the prospective buyers during the process obviously wasn't good enough.

Why run a business so close to the wire on the presumption that an investor with a track history of pulling out of deals will magically come in pay your players? COVID definitely didn't help and I'm sure he was being told all the right things but the fact of the matter is, the club didn't have sufficient cash flow to pay its wages. 

I’m merely playing devils advocate 

1 hour ago, San Fran Van Rams said:

Completely disagree. There were historical examples of BZI not pulling through on similar deals. We should have made sure we had sufficient liquidity in the event that happened again. 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. But that wasn't hindsight, it was blind optimism.

Do U think Mel went into this totally blind then ? 
I highly doubt it 

1 hour ago, ColonelBlimp said:

I'm sure Mel, younger and in full health, was a most excellent businessman, you don't get 500m being lucky do you? Do you?

People get older, they get unwell, they take their eye off the ball, they get scammed (usually old people get scammed).

Could be any number of reasons why the Mel of 2013/14 ain't the Mel of 2020/21.

FWIW, I like Mel, I think he's done everything for our club with the best of intentions, what is it the saying about that?

 

Oh I agree his intentions can’t be questioned IMO 

2 hours ago, ColonelBlimp said:

Seriously?  We had warnings from day one from members of other clubs.  If you chose to ignore them, that's on you.

Both were more likely chancers than not, hindsight not required.

 

Are we saying Mel did zero due diligence then?

think what u want of him and yes it’s gone sour but I think as a businessman of more years than half of us are in age I’d well imagine he saw enough to have some level of confidence that this was going to happen ?no? 

9 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I think there was a lot of scepticism in the fan base right from the get-go. The same goes with Alonso.

Oh totally …but we’re all experts with hindsight arnt we lol

14 hours ago, San Fran Van Rams said:

Mel's issue was liquidity at the time we didn't pay the wages, hence why we had to get a short term loan to pay them. 

In an acquisition you normally agree a networking capital position that the acquiring company will furnish the target with once the deal closed, and is taken into account in the purchase price. Before that, the target has to pay all creditors as per normal. If Mel was short on liquidity he should (and probably did) ask for a loan from the acquirer. This obviously didnt come through as expected which left us scrambling. 

The cash flow projections we're obviously considered in light of the acquisition and being provided the net working capital at a point in time. I can't remember the timeline but it seems whatever cash buffer there was, it was eroded too early. COVID obviously didn't help matters. 

Not paying wages shouldn't happen. It was a naive business move to trust that dodgy sheikh. It should not happen again. Being that close to the wire is poor financial management and I hope the CEO has learnt from that. How he still has a job is anyone's business. Must be a family friend of Mels.

We’re all very wise with hindsight arnt we … the dodgy shiek only become dodgy retrospectively 

29 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

To use your analogy, surely the seller (of a business or private property) is liable for things like gas, electric, rates (business or domestic) until such time as you hand the keys over. I.e. completion not exchange of contracts. That why you read the meters on the day you move out. You don't do on the day you exchange contracts or project/estimate them forward to you proposed or agreed completion date. 

That’s a Fair point 

although selling a football club I’m sure I’d imagine is a wee bit more complicated than a house sale 

especially when your dealing with people’s salaries and a dodgy / fake sheik/ potential owner 

but it’s a valid point ?

5 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Who froze the assets and monies exactly?

Cannot remember the timing, will look back and find out.

There must be a point in time surely where monies are frozen ?? No ?

to allow for exchange of contracts and liabilities and so on and so forth

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Having been involved in numerous business acquisitions and disposals, I can genuinely not remember a single time where assets and monies have been frozen.

Also this is not the first time we have paid the wages late.

Really ?

Iv only bought one business and that was exactly the process 

why would u commit to paying the next mortgage payment .. DD on the next gas ,next electricity , next  business rates instalment after the date of an agreed deal ?

In my case it was all plain sailing but I wasn’t trying to pull the wool over someone’s eyes and do a runner at the last minute  

someone else pointed out this with the example of a simple house sale? 

Also When was the other time we didn’t pay ?

10 hours ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

So if you are selling your house and contracts are being exchanged you would pay the next instalment of your mortgage , council tax bills etc just in case even though legally you are not obliged to do so ? 

This … totally utterly this 

the efl have just taken the first opportunity to stick is one

sorry but anyone on business who’s bought and sold a business will tell u the same 

your example above is the prefect example mate 

2 hours ago, San Fran Van Rams said:

On its own, I actually agree with the 3 point suspended penalty. Not paying staff should never happen unless administration has been entered and even then it should be a last resort. 

The issue here is that there are historical examples of other clubs doing similar and going un punished, and Sheff Wed getting a seemingly a lesser penalty for a more severe crime. That doesn't sit right.

The fact this also impacts two clubs who have been in the EFL spot light in the last season speaks volumes too. This is the EFL waving it's 'big' (read small) dick around.

I also think Derby didn't appeal this as they probably didn't know what the Wednesday punishment was when they accepted it to get some breathing space. 

Out of interest, was it the EFL or the DC that set the punishment?

Wasn’t this purely because we were about to be taken over ? and like all company’s that change hands there has to be a period in time where assets and monies are frozen to enable the transaction to be completed 

with something as complicated as a football club sale .. and with what turns out to have been a damp squib of a potential new ownership group it’s seems to me the the efl have taken the first possible opportunity to slap their dicks in our face ?

have we a history of not paying our players ? No 

have we not paid our players before ? No 

was this because of factors outside of our control ? Yes 

if the bzr hadn’t taken Mel and the club for a ride then this would never have happened

think it’s a fricking P take quite frankly and part of their “with regret” couldnt contest the DC and their 100k fine 

think they’re being utter ********* towards us quite frankly and won’t rest til they have what they want out of this whole situation 

32 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

The easiest way to avoid a suspended points deduction for not paying players on time is to pay the players on time.

The BZG takeover falling through was simply not an excuse. Until Mel no longer owns the club its his responsibility, simple. 

Think your being a bit harsh mate 

if the club were as close t a takeover as possible then like any business changing hands accounts and have to be frozen in a period in time to enable a transfer 

someone with greater knowledge on this than we I’m sure will be able to explain it better 

6 hours ago, richinspain said:

I think you've misunderstood me. I was saying that he did let managers manage, unless the original comment was about the dressing room incident? I can't think of any other occasion where Mel publicly interfered with the manager 

*just putting this in before someone else does

 

I think I did … my apologies 

Just with regard to our current state of play 

is anybody else a little more worried today ?

IF there’s a takeover happening … and IF they had money .. and IF our new  reinstated accounts were ok 

why would we be shopping for the likes of stearman and jags.

donr get me wrong I’m not writing anyone off before they’ve even signed or kicked a ball for us 

and I certainly don’t expect fireworks and marquee signings again .. but u know what I mean 

or are we that desperate to get some bodies in 

7 minutes ago, richinspain said:

You're perfectly entitled to your opinion, however I do think that much of our problem is due to Mel letting managers manage, ie sign pretty much whoever they wanted. 
I also have no idea what you are referring to with your last statement?

A chairman letting a manager manage ??

isn’t that what’s supposed to happen ?

I know what ur getting at but I don’t think we can have a go at Mel for backing his managers .. he trusted their judgment with his money 

he just put his faith in the wrong people sadly 

18 minutes ago, Igor Igor Whats the Score? said:

Ryan Allsop is a very good keeper. He took Stockdales place in the Wycombe team after coming back from injury. Big strong keeper and would be a solid signing. I would be happy to have him instead of Marshall with the potential saving on wages if we let Marshall go.

Thanks for the info 

I won’t lie I’m sure like many I had to google and was still not much the wiser 

from what u say sounds like a potentially shewd move 

9 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I noticed him in a training video earlier today, but had no idea who he was.

Free agent, be interesting to know if this is with a view to him being 3rd choice or if we're selling Roos or Marshall

Both please lol…….. no seriously both 

13 minutes ago, sage said:

Ok. One at a time. Stefano Eranio

Game set and match 

well played that man lol

2 hours ago, TooFarInToTurnRed said:

Suspect Forest will be one of the clubs as I checked their accounts for season ending 2020 and they include a value of £5,961,000 for amortisation of intangible assets but it doesn’t stack up:

Carvalho £13.5m 5yr = £2.61m

Grabban £6m 4yr = £1.5m

Figuereido £2m 4yr = £0.5m

Jenkinson £2m 3yr = £0.66m

Samba £2m 4yr = £0.5m

Da Costa £1.8m 3.5yr = £0.51m

Sow £0.6m 2yr = £0.3m

Bong £0.45m 2.5yr = £0.18m

Total = £6.76m without including any signing on fees for players signed on a free (Ameobi & Adomah to name a couple). Anyone got an email address for Steve Gibson?

 

Yer it’s 

sgibson@Ahol.com

Maybe I didn’t emphasise the IF 

it’s probably the biggest IF imaginable lol

Oh that’s how I envisage it playing out ?