DerbyRam! Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Where were we when he was sacked? If it was for something other than footballing reasons then fair enough, but madness in my opinion. One thing you could say is that if he was trying to copy the top level style where the top players always create something out of nothing. He got us playing in a way which gave us a good chance of getting out of the championship....had we a bit of luck and mel gives him 40m-50m to spend in the premier league to buy significantly better players to do exactly what he wants...who knows where we could be now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Dressing room in dissaray ? Players at each others throats? the only evidence for that is the recent comment by Mel. how would Mel have known what was going on from the directors box, and that he needed to go into the changing room for that reason? he went into the changing room room because it was a poor performance; " to carpet everybody" was the phrase he used at the time. In other words to tear a strip off the management too for not delivering lovely football and 'a rising tide of performance'. it was a home draw btw - we didn't even lose. And it was a new formation trying 4231 with Ince in the no10 role, which didn't really work. The decision to sack PC is in sharp contrast to the effusive praise dished out at the fans forum at the end of october. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 What's the point of arguing over speculative historical events? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 16 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: What's the point of arguing over speculative historical events? Seasons over people have time on their hands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 23 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: What's the point of arguing over speculative historical events? I refer you to the Nigel Clough thread...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, Mafiabob said: I refer you to the Nigel Clough thread...... Yes but his dad was Brian Clough, big difference.....ahem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester Ram Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 6 hours ago, Angry Ram said: What the same players who ended as dog ***** under Mac? The obsession of passing it around at the back that subsequent managers still did. Boring football that had to us top at one point. Dressing room in disarray? Hmmm nothing new there with this bunch of pussies. He was new, first job of that type for him. What did you bloody expect? Perfection. Of course he was going to make mistakes. His appointment was the only good shout that Morris has made. But alas he lost his bottle after a couple of poor results, panicked and here we are. I t was bold move to appoint Paul. The bloke had absolutely everything he needed to do really well. He was backed the most out of any manager this century with money, when he had injuries he had players bought for him as replacements, he had a large squad brimming with talent. Not only dud he have that squad, he had all the mistakes and lessons to be learnt from the season before to take on board. But we got worse as time went on. Right, we got some of the sort of stuff I'd expect from a first time manager, but that's not what got him fired. He decided to give the players an extra week off and we then had a really poor start to the season. Fair enough live and learn. Gave the captaincy to Baird, only then to switch to Christie at RB, leaving Baird out the side. Then swapped the captaincy around the squad a load, seemed an unnessecary distraction. Might have had something to do with squad disunity, who knows. But easy enough mistake to make. But that's where those mistakes end, the rest is awful stuff that you have to be on top of, regardless whether you're the manager or assistant coach. Mel said at a meeting with the breakfast club (Or whoever) that Johnson was the fittest player at the club when he joined, but by January/February he was unfit. His performances really dropped off after then. Unnacceptable, whether that's the player or manager's doing, Clement should never have got to that stage. Also came out from one of those meetings that the only team he bothered to go and scout was United for the FA Cup. Not the sort of commitment I'd expect so far, letting players get unfit and not scouting our opponents. I'm not seeing the commitment to learn you'd expect from a first time manager there, I'm seeing an arrogance. Between Oct 13-March 15, Derby County accumulated the most points of any team in the country by playing a certain style. Failings made it clear that a few tweaks needed to be made to the style. Clement started off with that style, adding a few tweaks and we were brilliant. Only top at one point, but well in the race. But the more the season went on, the further we got from that style, the worse we got. The more we reflected Clements image, the worse the team played. And he looked to lose the dressing room because of that. Whether that was through footballing matters, personal matters or allegedly shagging whoevers missus, there'd clearly been a deterioration as the season went on. He lost the dressing room in 6 months, despite having every advantage, something no Derby manager has had since. He looks good next to Pearson and what Mac II became but he bottled it more than they did. For what Pearson and McClaren wanted to do, they didn't have the same resources that Clement did. Macs team played football around the back because they didn't have anyone to hold it further up field, Clements team played it round the back because that's what he liked; safe football. And the players being pussies point has been done to death, but I'll mention that half the players were brought in by the 'notoriously soft' Nigel Clough and almost all of them were kept by 'I'm a lovely softy' Nigel Pearson. A lots gone on with this group of players which is the problem in itself. A lot has gone on. We need freshening up but that doesn't mean the players are pussies. Clement seems like the messiah to some in hindsight but I'm not convinced he saw a long term future at Derby or a way to get us up. But if you think the manager that had Chris Martin chasing punts down field and Jason Shackell as a playmaker out the back was the one, then fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 5 hours ago, DerbyRam! said: One thing you could say is that if he was trying to copy the top level style where the top players always create something out of nothing. He got us playing in a way which gave us a good chance of getting out of the championship....had we a bit of luck and mel gives him 40m-50m to spend in the premier league to buy significantly better players to do exactly what he wants...who knows where we could be now Good lord no. How can you say we had a style of play that would have gotten us out of The Championship when you yourself insinuate that the players we had weren't good enough to execute his style of play? We weren't going anywhere. Teams had worked us out and he couldn't deal with it. Mark Keogh and Thorne and press Christie, Butters and Johnny and we were dead. As long as BJ, Shacks or Warnock had the ball we weren't going to hurt you. He tried to solve it by playing Hendrick up-front with the increasingly isolated Martin… horrifying. Fulham away was just a throw of the dice, stick all of our runners in and see what happens. And would you really trust Clement with £40-50 million when he spent half of that and made us worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malagaram Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 I would like to congratulate Paul and his team for finishing the league strongly unlike Hull who went out with a wimper,just wished he was still with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 40 minutes ago, Leicester Ram said: The bloke had absolutely everything he needed to do really well. He was backed the most out of any manager this century with money, when he had injuries he had players bought for him as replacements, he had a large squad brimming with talent. Not only dud he have that squad, he had all the mistakes and lessons to be learnt from the season before to take on board. But we got worse as time went on. Right, we got some of the sort of stuff I'd expect from a first time manager, but that's not what got him fired. He decided to give the players an extra week off and we then had a really poor start to the season. Fair enough live and learn. Gave the captaincy to Baird, only then to switch to Christie at RB, leaving Baird out the side. Then swapped the captaincy around the squad a load, seemed an unnessecary distraction. Might have had something to do with squad disunity, who knows. But easy enough mistake to make. But that's where those mistakes end, the rest is awful stuff that you have to be on top of, regardless whether you're the manager or assistant coach. Mel said at a meeting with the breakfast club (Or whoever) that Johnson was the fittest player at the club when he joined, but by January/February he was unfit. His performances really dropped off after then. Unnacceptable, whether that's the player or manager's doing, Clement should never have got to that stage. Also came out from one of those meetings that the only team he bothered to go and scout was United for the FA Cup. Not the sort of commitment I'd expect so far, letting players get unfit and not scouting our opponents. I'm not seeing the commitment to learn you'd expect from a first time manager there, I'm seeing an arrogance. Between Oct 13-March 15, Derby County accumulated the most points of any team in the country by playing a certain style. Failings made it clear that a few tweaks needed to be made to the style. Clement started off with that style, adding a few tweaks and we were brilliant. Only top at one point, but well in the race. But the more the season went on, the further we got from that style, the worse we got. The more we reflected Clements image, the worse the team played. And he looked to lose the dressing room because of that. Whether that was through footballing matters, personal matters or allegedly shagging whoevers missus, there'd clearly been a deterioration as the season went on. He lost the dressing room in 6 months, despite having every advantage, something no Derby manager has had since. He looks good next to Pearson and what Mac II became but he bottled it more than they did. For what Pearson and McClaren wanted to do, they didn't have the same resources that Clement did. Macs team played football around the back because they didn't have anyone to hold it further up field, Clements team played it round the back because that's what he liked; safe football. And the players being pussies point has been done to death, but I'll mention that half the players were brought in by the 'notoriously soft' Nigel Clough and almost all of them were kept by 'I'm a lovely softy' Nigel Pearson. A lots gone on with this group of players which is the problem in itself. A lot has gone on. We need freshening up but that doesn't mean the players are pussies. Clement seems like the messiah to some in hindsight but I'm not convinced he saw a long term future at Derby or a way to get us up. But if you think the manager that had Chris Martin chasing punts down field and Jason Shackell as a playmaker out the back was the one, then fair enough. So basically you are shooting him for being new and making some mistakes. I don't agree with some of the points but others yes. If anyone needed time, it was him. Was he afforded all you said, were the transfers all his? I believe he was not even here when some came in. We don't really know. I give no substance to what Mel says at any point.. I agree it needed a tweak but Morris wanted more than that hence the appointment of PC. That was radical, risky and forward thinking. Was he just meant to be a puppet and when he refused to be, he was out quick time? We don't know. The rest about the changing room is just hearsay.. The players are weak though, not mentally strong enough but as you said, done to death. Swansea don't seem to play in his image though do they.. Or do they? I take it you mean he is a bit dour.. Could he have learnt from a mistake?? Might he have learnt while he was here? He was a bold move, one that I thought was a good move. Most of the points you have raised above could have been pointed at other managers as well.. Playing players out of position etc. Time will tell if Clement makes a good manager. To be fair it's all a bit of a lottery having success at one place does not guarantee it at another club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 I'm one of those who didn't think he stood a chance, in fact I was probably one of the loudest shouters during his ill fated time at Derby. It doesn't take me long to recognise when I've got something wrong and I must be honest and say the last few times I've heard him speak, he's totally changed my opinion of him. Was especially impressed with what he had to say on the Aaron Lennon issue, thought he came across brilliantly well. Add that to his results, his demeanour and the players response to him at Swansea, I'm more than happy to chalk that one down as a bad call from me. Not right for Derby at the time but does look like he has the makings of a decent manager. I doubt him or anyone connected to him reads this place but if they do then Mr Clement, I'm sorry. I'm another one of those football fans who knows bugger all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 1 hour ago, ronnieronalde said: I'm one of those who didn't think he stood a chance, in fact I was probably one of the loudest shouters during his ill fated time at Derby. It doesn't take me long to recognise when I've got something wrong and I must be honest and say the last few times I've heard him speak, he's totally changed my opinion of him. Was especially impressed with what he had to say on the Aaron Lennon issue, thought he came across brilliantly well. Add that to his results, his demeanour and the players response to him at Swansea, I'm more than happy to chalk that one down as a bad call from me. Not right for Derby at the time but does look like he has the makings of a decent manager. I doubt him or anyone connected to him reads this place but if they do then Mr Clement, I'm sorry. I'm another one of those football fans who knows bugger all. I think he was exactly right for Derby at the time Ronnie; imo it was others that were wrong in terms of their attitude and thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 On 5/13/2017 at 11:56, eddie said: Apologies @MuespachRam - it was @Ram a lamb a ding dong who didn't rate him. its ok.....I don't think I ever said it but I am sure I thought it... (and I still don't think he will by the way) having said that...as I have said on numerous occasions, I was at Ronaldos first ever game for Manchester United and I told anyone who would listen that he would never make it and that I could mark him out of any game...so seems like I am not always right..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zag zig Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 Interesting comments on transfer targets at Swansea. Quote It is very important the club and myself work together on identifying and recruiting the right target. There is nothing worse than when - and this has not happened here, but in other situations - a player just arrives and it is a case of there you go, here he is http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41054406 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 2 minutes ago, Zag zig said: Interesting comments on transfer targets at Swansea. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41054406 Could be abroad, happens a lot over there. He's been assistant to some big clubs as well as Derby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tibbs Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 Considering we were signing players before he even arrived it's more than likely aimed at us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therealhantsram Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 10 minutes ago, Mr Tibbs said: Considering we were signing players before he even arrived it's more than likely aimed at us. Yes, because Clement's record in the transfer market when he was given full control was the wonderful wasn't it. Olson, Camara and Blackman. Enough said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy Ram Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 41 minutes ago, Boycie said: Could be abroad, happens a lot over there. He's been assistant to some big clubs as well as Derby. Mel is to blame for our transfers policy and the state of the squad. Pretty much nailed on. Yet people want to manufacture a different reality. So yes, he was really just an assistant here - even getting a telling off or two from the big boss in front of the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zag zig Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 50 minutes ago, Boycie said: Could be abroad, happens a lot over there. He's been assistant to some big clubs as well as Derby. Could be, also makes you think after a few buys here (mentioning no names) will he ever be totally trusted by anyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tibbs Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 21 minutes ago, therealhantsram said: Yes, because Clement's record in the transfer market when he was given full control was the wonderful wasn't it. Olson, Camara and Blackman. Enough said. One (current) first choice left back, an absolute shitter and a striker that didn't get a chance. Could have been much, much worse. Not sure 3 players and one full window is conclusive enough to go around bashing PC tbh, each to their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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