Birmingham relegated.

[CBX1985]

4 hours ago, ram59 said:

It's nothing like the Mel Morris situation, he gambled what he couldn't afford to, these sums are pocket money to the Birmingham owners and with the Lg1 rules the owners have to inject the cash into the club to cover the costs and not loan it, even if they chose to walk away from the club, they'd leave them in a fairly healthy state. Running costs would be high, but they would be able offload some players to cover those costs.

No, MM could afford he did not wish to keep shouldering the loss; he is worth £515m.  MM was at least from the City and supported them - however nominally previously.

BCFC owners are not supporters.  They are interested in furthering in profit (in the future).  Should they lose interest or desire to shoulder losses, then those sums are totally unaffordable.

just because someone is rich does not mean they will still wish to pay; the two are not mutually exclusive.

[ram59]

3 hours ago, CBX1985 said:

No, MM could afford he did not wish to keep shouldering the loss; he is worth £515m.  MM was at least from the City and supported them - however nominally previously.

BCFC owners are not supporters.  They are interested in furthering in profit (in the future).  Should they lose interest or desire to shoulder losses, then those sums are totally unaffordable.

just because someone is rich does not mean they will still wish to pay; the two are not mutually exclusive.

You miss the point of the financial rules in Lg1, for Blues to be able to sign these players over and above their 70% of turnover, the owners need to inject funds, not loans, to cover the purchase and wages of the extra signings for the length of their contracts, so as to protect the financial status of the club. If the owners do lose interest and walk away, they can't take back these funds, that is the intention of the rules.

My neighbour spoke to the owner on the day of the relegation last season, who was still quite upbeat and told him that they were prepared to pump in £50m into the club for this season. The problem comes if they get back into the championship where the rules change. The sums that they have put in are totally unaffordable for people like Clowes, but not for some owners whose wealth is measured in the multiple billions. Mel Morris lost around half his wealth with the Rams, if the Blues owners lost the same amount, it would be a couple of percent of their wealth.

[Boycie]

So, if they get promoted do they start off on a clean slate on the FFP as league 1 has different rules?

[nottingram]

15 hours ago, ram59 said:

You miss the point of the financial rules in Lg1, for Blues to be able to sign these players over and above their 70% of turnover, the owners need to inject funds, not loans, to cover the purchase and wages of the extra signings for the length of their contracts, so as to protect the financial status of the club. If the owners do lose interest and walk away, they can't take back these funds, that is the intention of the rules.

My neighbour spoke to the owner on the day of the relegation last season, who was still quite upbeat and told him that they were prepared to pump in £50m into the club for this season. The problem comes if they get back into the championship where the rules change. The sums that they have put in are totally unaffordable for people like Clowes, but not for some owners whose wealth is measured in the multiple billions. Mel Morris lost around half his wealth with the Rams, if the Blues owners lost the same amount, it would be a couple of percent of their wealth.

The owners can’t walk away and take the wages and instalments due with them though. 

They seem quite committed now. Let’s see if they’re committed if they fail to get promoted this season, or more likely, get promoted then realise that the players willing to drop to L1 for ridiculous sums are probably at best mid table Championship quality. 

[ram59]

1 hour ago, nottingram said:

The owners can’t walk away and take the wages and instalments due with them though. 

They seem quite committed now. Let’s see if they’re committed if they fail to get promoted this season, or more likely, get promoted then realise that the players willing to drop to L1 for ridiculous sums are probably at best mid table Championship quality. 

You're missing the point, the owners have to put the money into the club first, to cover the wages and instalments for the whole of the players' contracts. Take the signing of Stansfield which will be over and above their 70% of turnover which was exceeded ages ago, £12m transfer plus a contract worth about £8m over 4 years, means that the owners would need to give the club £20m before the signing could be made. Then if they chose to walk away next year, that £20m would stay with the club, to cover the instalments and wages of that player.

In addition to this they have had to put in funds for other signings which have been part of the 70% of turnover, I heard that they were prepared to throw £50m at the team this season and with Stanfield using up around half of that on his own, they'll probably be not far off the £50m injection this season.

I don't know how clubs like us are affected when we get promotion from lg1 to the Championship, with regard to FFP rules.

[therealhantsram]

4 hours ago, Boycie said:

So, if they get promoted do they start off on a clean slate on the FFP as league 1 has different rules?

No same rules apply. Rolling 3 year period.

[Ghost of Clough]

5 hours ago, ram59 said:

You're missing the point, the owners have to put the money into the club first, to cover the wages and instalments for the whole of the players' contracts. Take the signing of Stansfield which will be over and above their 70% of turnover which was exceeded ages ago, £12m transfer plus a contract worth about £8m over 4 years, means that the owners would need to give the club £20m before the signing could be made. Then if they chose to walk away next year, that £20m would stay with the club, to cover the instalments and wages of that player.

In addition to this they have had to put in funds for other signings which have been part of the 70% of turnover, I heard that they were prepared to throw £50m at the team this season and with Stanfield using up around half of that on his own, they'll probably be not far off the £50m injection this season.

I don't know how clubs like us are affected when we get promotion from lg1 to the Championship, with regard to FFP rules.

70% relates to wages. Transfer fees don't come into it.

[Bobby]

11 hours ago, Boycie said:

So, if they get promoted do they start off on a clean slate on the FFP as league 1 has different rules?

As far as I know,if they go up then the previous season in league 1 becomes the first year of the FFP cycle, they could be in serious doo doo if they go up this season.

Edited September 1 by Bobby
Spelling

[therealhantsram]

7 hours ago, Bobby said:

As far as I know,if they go up then the previous season in league 1 becomes the first year of the FFP cycle, they could be in serious doo doo if they go up this season.

I dont agree. Championship FFP is all about allowable losses. If , as the earlier poster said, owners have been putting in money to cover wages and purchases, there will be no losses. Net zero.

[Crewton]

2 hours ago, therealhantsram said:

I dont agree. Championship FFP is all about allowable losses. If , as the earlier poster said, owners have been putting in money to cover wages and purchases, there will be no losses. Net zero.

Where they might come unstuck is on wages. They've obviously been offering wages far above L1 norms, which they'll presumably have to increase after promotion. Now clubs have to submit their projected accounts for the season just completed if they're promoted, they might come up very early on the EFL early warning system?

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, Crewton said:

they might come up very early on the EFL early warning system?

The EFL have a very early warning system? 😬 would it be the arse ed at Boro by any chance?

[Crewton]

3 minutes ago, Ram-Alf said:

The EFL have a very early warning system? 😬 would it be the arse ed at Boro by any chance?

To be fair to them (and I say that reluctantly) they're focusing on prevention as well as punishment now.

[uttoxram75]

On 01/09/2024 at 16:56, ram59 said:

You're missing the point, the owners have to put the money into the club first, to cover the wages and instalments for the whole of the players' contracts. Take the signing of Stansfield which will be over and above their 70% of turnover which was exceeded ages ago, £12m transfer plus a contract worth about £8m over 4 years, means that the owners would need to give the club £20m before the signing could be made. Then if they chose to walk away next year, that £20m would stay with the club, to cover the instalments and wages of that player.

In addition to this they have had to put in funds for other signings which have been part of the 70% of turnover, I heard that they were prepared to throw £50m at the team this season and with Stanfield using up around half of that on his own, they'll probably be not far off the £50m injection this season.

I don't know how clubs like us are affected when we get promotion from lg1 to the Championship, with regard to FFP rules.

They are planning to build a new stadium just down the road from the current pit i believe. One day they'll be as big as West Brom.

[TomTom92]

The Stansfield deal is completely bonkers and in my opinion is very short sighted and self serving.

Do they need Stansfield to go up? I hold Derby's squad last season as evidence your honour. 

Can't fault them for having a go, but assuming they go up it'll be interesting to see whether they throw the war chest at it again next season and hope they can go up within two seasons or whether they'll consolidate.

FWIW I think its in pretty poor taste that they've splashed all this cash when League 1 is a pretty poor standard. Got to feel for the well run teams this season.

[Crewton]

7 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

The Stansfield deal is completely bonkers and in my opinion is very short sighted and self serving.

Do they need Stansfield to go up? I hold Derby's squad last season as evidence your honour. 

Can't fault them for having a go, but assuming they go up it'll be interesting to see whether they throw the war chest at it again next season and hope they can go up within two seasons or whether they'll consolidate.

FWIW I think its in pretty poor taste that they've splashed all this cash when League 1 is a pretty poor standard. Got to feel for the well run teams this season.

Aye, some of them will look back wistfully to last season when all they had to moan about was Derby's EFL approved wage structure.........