Cruz Allen

[jono]

10 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

He may well not do, but we can only speculate on the evidence available to us - and the fact he’s openly admitted to not even knowing who some of the youth players are, suggests he doesn’t hold much interest.

Or to speculate again whoever is running the youth set up hasn’t been banging on his door saying “this boy is special, you have to use him now, he’s ready” 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

Bit off a weird one with young players.  Don't really know how good they'll turn out.  Derby let Paul Blades 'go' for a few hours as they thought he might not be good enough to play Division 3 level.  Till Man Utd said if you don't want him we'll have him.  That paperwork never got finalised.  Rooney was letting Cashin go to bring in another player under embargo.

At the other end I remember us signing Moukako who was wanted by half the big sides in Europe.  Think he wound up at Accrington or somewhere.

Best bet is to give as many as possible 10 mins if they look reasonable to maximise an already paltry development fee.

[rammieib]

If we still had a Rosenoir they’d be a pathway for these kids…

[Caerphilly Ram]

20 minutes ago, rammieib said:

If we still had a Rosenoir they’d be a pathway for these kids…

And it still wouldn’t prevent the likes of Premier League Manchester United and Chelsea from expressing and pursuing an interest in talented 16 year old international footballers at clubs lower down the football pyramid….

Edited November 27, 2023 by Caerphilly Ram

[Crewton]

We seem to have suddenly gone from "the Academy has been cleared out, it'll take years of rebuilding before we see any talent coming through" to "why aren't we playing 16 year olds in the first team" within the space of 4 months? Do you think, perhaps, that some fans are getting a little carried away?

[Ghost of Clough]

6 hours ago, Crewton said:

We seem to have suddenly gone from "the Academy has been cleared out, it'll take years of rebuilding before we see any talent coming through" to "why aren't we playing 16 year olds in the first team" within the space of 4 months? Do you think, perhaps, that some fans are getting a little carried away?

Yes. The people stating "the Academy has been cleared out, it'll take years of rebuilding before we see any talent coming through" got carried away and were being over dramatic. We didn't lose all of our star talent from what would be our current U18 and U21 squads.

We lost a number of academy graduates in and around our first team - Buchanan, Ebosele, Ebiowei, Williams. We also lost Delap and Gordon who would have been in the first team at this point before we entered administration.

Even if we include the 3 who went to Man Utd before we went into admin, we're missing just 6 players who would have been in the U21 and U18 squads (4 year groups). What you also have to remember, is that when we lose a player, we will also gain a player from elsewhere to fill the gap. For example, we lost Kellyman and Sharpe but signed Wheeldon and Gough shortly after.

[Returning ram]

21 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

He may well not do, but we can only speculate on the evidence available to us - and the fact he’s openly admitted to not even knowing who some of the youth players are, suggests he doesn’t hold much interest.

But he didn't say that, he has as much an interest in the academy as any of the previous managers. If a player is deemed ready to contribute to the first team as determined by a number of factors, that pathway is available.
 

As I said in another post though, it is not his job to oversee the academy, that would be detrimental to the club for any manager to be given that remit imo.

[Ghost of Clough]

1 minute ago, Returning ram said:

But he didn't say that, he has as much an interest in the academy as any of the previous managers. If a player is deemed ready to contribute to the first team as determined by a number of factors, that pathway is available.
 

As I said in another post though, it is not his job to oversee the academy, that would be detrimental to the club for any manager to be given that remit imo.

From the Fan Forum, Academy talk started at 14:30 and lasted around 10 minutes.

Q1: Pathway - Wants more through the academy as it means a larger part of the budget goes towards. Talks with other staff regularly regarding the academy. Attended an U21 game earlier that day, didn't know the score, and didn't know the name of the player who scored the hattrick (Weston). He spoke about the upcoming EFL Trophy game against Lincoln and giving academy players game time, but then left DBrown and DRobinson on the bench, bringing only Radcliffe on in the 79th minute. He also said he has always brought players through at other clubs, despite only 3 league players in 6 years Rotherham, with 2 sold before they even established themselves.

Q2: Watching U18/21 games - says he has watched them, even specifies he watches U21 games on Saturdays prior to first team games, even though it's actually the U18s (U21s had only had 2 Saturday games in the past 2 seasons). U21s regularly train with the first team. Buxton feeds him information on who is playing well, and suggested it's Buxton who helps choose who should step into first team training.

Q3: Use of academy - doesn't regret the lack of academy use last season. Says his mistake was not signing players in the January window. Felt no academy players weren't any who were "strong enough to come in". He thinks it's dropping players in to the slaughter rather than viewing it as a key part in their development. His general viewpoint is that a player has to be top half League 1 standard just to get an opportunity in the first team. He highlighted DRobinson struggling vs Chesterfield in pre-season, ignoring how their squad is good enough to be challenging for promotion in League 2 - several players struggled against Crewe over our 2 games agaisnt them.

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Yes. The people stating "the Academy has been cleared out, it'll take years of rebuilding before we see any talent coming through" got carried away and were being over dramatic. We didn't lose all of our star talent from what would be our current U18 and U21 squads.

We lost a number of academy graduates in and around our first team - Buchanan, Ebosele, Ebiowei, Williams. We also lost Delap and Gordon who would have been in the first team at this point before we entered administration.

Even if we include the 3 who went to Man Utd before we went into admin, we're missing just 6 players who would have been in the U21 and U18 squads (4 year groups). What you also have to remember, is that when we lose a player, we will also gain a player from elsewhere to fill the gap. For example, we lost Kellyman and Sharpe but signed Wheeldon and Gough shortly after.

There was also a big clear out from the U21 squad at the end of the season, including some perhaps surprising ones like Cybulski, Solomon , Dixon, Ibrahim and Aghatise who'd had a fair amount of involvement with the first team. We also lost the two Browns and others during and at the end of the previous season. I get your point that we stocked up with replacements fairly rapidly, but I get the sense that some are of the view that the first team squad should be stacked with teenagers and that feels a bit premature.

[Ghost of Clough]

Just now, Crewton said:

There was also a big clear out from the U21 squad at the end of the season, including some perhaps surprising ones like Cybulski, Solomon , Dixon, Ibrahim and Aghatise who'd had a fair amount of involvement with the first team. We also lost the two Browns and others during and at the end of the previous season. I get your point that we stocked up with replacements fairly rapidly, but I get the sense that some are of the view that the first team squad should be stacked with teenagers and that feels a bit premature.

Whilst I was surprised we release those players due to a lack of depth in the U21 squad, it made sense as they were at an age where they needed regular football which they weren't going to get here, and despite a lot of early promise injuries perhaps limited that potential.
JBrown was sold in Jan 2022 whilst ABrown chose to go abroad at the end of the previous season (summer 2021).

I don't get the impression that anyone is suggesting the first team is filled with untried academy prospects. However, a lot of people are frustrated that they aren't used more. This was especially apparent in the striking department, when we had a lack of fit forwards who were performing well at the start of the season, with DBrown impressing in pre-season. This was then followed up after Weston had just scored and assisted on his debut, but then not used again despite only having 1 fit forward who is a yellow away from a 1 match ban. On other occasions its when we're 2 or 3 goals up with subs to spare, then we opt to bring experienced players like Bradley on rather than giving experience to youth.

[rammieib]

10 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

And it still wouldn’t prevent the likes of Premier League Manchester United and Chelsea from expressing and pursuing an interest in talented 16 year old international footballers at clubs lower down the football pyramid….

Of course it wouldn't - but I'm be curious if parents of 16/17 years old's in the DCFC academy believe there is a genuine pathway to the first team under Warne?

[Returning ram]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

From the Fan Forum, Academy talk started at 14:30 and lasted around 10 minutes.

Q1: Pathway - Wants more through the academy as it means a larger part of the budget goes towards. Talks with other staff regularly regarding the academy. Attended an U21 game earlier that day, didn't know the score, and didn't know the name of the player who scored the hattrick (Weston). He spoke about the upcoming EFL Trophy game against Lincoln and giving academy players game time, but then left DBrown and DRobinson on the bench, bringing only Radcliffe on in the 79th minute. He also said he has always brought players through at other clubs, despite only 3 league players in 6 years Rotherham, with 2 sold before they even established themselves.

Q2: Watching U18/21 games - says he has watched them, even specifies he watches U21 games on Saturdays prior to first team games, even though it's actually the U18s (U21s had only had 2 Saturday games in the past 2 seasons). U21s regularly train with the first team. Buxton feeds him information on who is playing well, and suggested it's Buxton who helps choose who should step into first team training.

Q3: Use of academy - doesn't regret the lack of academy use last season. Says his mistake was not signing players in the January window. Felt no academy players weren't any who were "strong enough to come in". He thinks it's dropping players in to the slaughter rather than viewing it as a key part in their development. His general viewpoint is that a player has to be top half League 1 standard just to get an opportunity in the first team. He highlighted DRobinson struggling vs Chesterfield in pre-season, ignoring how their squad is good enough to be challenging for promotion in League 2 - several players struggled against Crewe over our 2 games agaisnt them.

Where does that say he didn't know who the player was ? All I can see is that he didn't know his name ? 

As I said before, often see him around the training ground, not sure why not knowing a players name means he doesn't know who he is, do you think he should know everyone's name at all levels, or do you think he puts trust in others to manage that side.

[Ghost of Clough]

57 minutes ago, Returning ram said:

Where does that say he didn't know who the player was ? All I can see is that he didn't know his name ? 

As I said before, often see him around the training ground, not sure why not knowing a players name means he doesn't know who he is, do you think he should know everyone's name at all levels, or do you think he puts trust in others to manage that side.

I'm sorry but knowing someone's name is one of the first things you learn about someone. At the very least it shows how much interest a person has in someone.There are only 65 players in the first team, U21 and U18 squads. If I can recite them all, then the first team manager who works with them on a regualr basis, sees them in training and watches them in matches should also know their names too. These are people Warne should be hoping are ready for his first team squad in the near future so should be getting to know them already.

As others have said in another thread. It's only a recent occurance where the first team staff have been seen to take a more active interest in the U18s and U21s.

[Returning ram]

28 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I'm sorry but knowing someone's name is one of the first things you learn about someone. At the very least it shows how much interest a person has in someone.There are only 65 players in the first team, U21 and U18 squads. If I can recite them all, then the first team manager who works with them on a regualr basis, sees them in training and watches them in matches should also know their names too. These are people Warne should be hoping are ready for his first team squad in the near future so should be getting to know them already.

As others have said in another thread. It's only a recent occurance where the first team staff have been seen to take a more active interest in the U18s and U21s.

You mean it's your criteria, in five words you have determined that him not knowing a players name, without knowing why, have taken that as not knowing who the player is.
 

That's fair enough, your view, but based on what I have seen and heard, mine is that is an unfair accusation to be labelled at him, he doesn't know my sons second name, probably not his first either but he has acknowledged him in passing a couple of times. 

[admira]

You can guarantee we will give him away for peanuts, like we always do.

[The_Sheriff]

59 minutes ago, admira said:

You can guarantee we will give him away for peanuts, like we always do.

At his age we don't have a choice to 'give him away'  it's out of our hands.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I'm sorry but knowing someone's name is one of the first things you learn about someone. At the very least it shows how much interest a person has in someone.There are only 65 players in the first team, U21 and U18 squads. If I can recite them all, then the first team manager who works with them on a regualr basis, sees them in training and watches them in matches should also know their names too. These are people Warne should be hoping are ready for his first team squad in the near future so should be getting to know them already.

As others have said in another thread. It's only a recent occurance where the first team staff have been seen to take a more active interest in the U18s and U21s.

I agree with the highlighted point here and it doesn't look great that he's struggling to find the name (pretty sure any fan commenting on this thread would have known it, even then, if they'd watched the game in question) but to be fair I think someone in the audience calls out "Weston" to which Warne replies "hat-trick", so his ability to remember Weston's name wasn't pushed to the limit and - since Warne has had a handful of years longer on this earth than I have - I must accept that we all have dozy moments when it comes to names and memory generally!

42 minutes ago, Returning ram said:

You mean it's your criteria, in five words you have determined that him not knowing a players name, without knowing why, have taken that as not knowing who the player is.
 

That's fair enough, your view, but based on what I have seen and heard, mine is that is an unfair accusation to be labelled at him, he doesn't know my sons second name, probably not his first either but he has acknowledged him in passing a couple of times. 

I don't understand your point on this one. On the one hand if I'm watching a game of youth football and one lad is astonishingly good and stands out from the rest, it doesn't follow that I should know his name, because I'm no-one. On the other, if I manage the first team and a player like that stands out (for example by scoring a hat-trick) - in my opinion - I probably should know his name, or get round to learning it pretty quickly. As I said above though, it's very possible Warne did know his name and just had a moment with his memory. (Is your son in the academy? I'm inferring that he is from the second part of your comment).

[Returning ram]

10 minutes ago, jameso said:

I don't understand your point on this one. On the one hand if I'm watching a game of youth football and one lad is astonishingly good and stands out from the rest, it doesn't follow that I should know his name, because I'm no-one. On the other, if I manage the first team and a player like that stands out (for example by scoring a hat-trick) - in my opinion - I probably should know his name, or get round to learning it pretty quickly. As I said above though, it's very possible Warne did know his name and just had a moment with his memory. (Is your son in the academy? I'm inferring that he is from the second part of your comment).

You answer my point, no one knows why he didn't know his name but based on what I have seen, it's just been blown totally out of context. (IMO)

Yes, I also take teams to various academies in the area on a regular basis, along with "recommending" players for trials etc..I not a scout, I'm defo not an expert in this area or management although I have a few badges and I have no inside knowledge whatsoever other than second hand information most of the time. I wouldn't definitely not take anything as I say as gospel, I can and often am wrong 😏

[ram59]

We don't know why he didn't know the player's name, it may have been through lack of interest, a momentary memory block or if he's anything like me, he may be terrible with names and faces. Over the years it's led to many embarrassing moments for me and is all the more frustrating as I have an excellent memory for many other things.

It's not a good look in his position, but some people seem to be too keen to pick out every tiny problem with the club and management at the moment and make a mountain out of a mole hill at every opportunity.

[jono]

On 27/11/2023 at 23:20, rammieib said:

If we still had a Rosenoir they’d be a pathway for these kids…

The pathway widened because we were restricted in our signings. I am not looking for an argument, I like to see young ones blooded and think there should always be a place on the bench for an academy player but sometime when the swamp is full of alligators you have to remember the objective is to drain it - hence managers playing tried and tested.