Poppygate

[VulcanRam]

5 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

The ram took a dump.

I'll make sure I'm there next time.

[Carl Sagan]

I live beside the war memorial to the merchant navy, which is effectively my front garden. We all gather there for 11am on Armistice Day, wearing our poppies. It must be a terrible thing, perhaps below deck at sea, when torpedoed and the freezing water rushing in, in the darkness. Later in the day yesterday, I had to go into the West End and I was struck that hardly anyone in London was wearing a poppy. I think it's important that the poppy, just as other symbols like the flag, are cherished by everyone, precisely so they do not become "owned" in some way by extremists. 

I get the white poppy for peace thing, but the money from red poppies goes to the Royal British Legion which supports military veterans. My take is that service personnel are often treated appallingly and need our support. They have lived through terrible things that no one should have to, and then are expected to assimilate back into ordinary society - no wonder many have problems. Also, they are sometimes unscrupulously recruited from poorer communities where the only opportunity of social mobility and escape, is to join the services. We probably all hate the politicians who send other people's children off to fight and die in wars, but wouldn't dream of letting their own kids near any danger. But I would say, don't use that as an excuse not to buy a poppy to support those who did go.

Yes it should never be compelled and there should never be peer pressure to make people feel they must comply, but I'm just giving some reasons why I think it's important.

[Anag Ram]

7 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

I'll make sure I'm there next time.

I’ll always remember the phew!

[SirBrian]

3 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

I live beside the war memorial to the merchant navy, which is effectively my front garden. We all gather there for 11am on Armistice Day, wearing our poppies. It must be a terrible thing, perhaps below deck at sea, when torpedoed and the freezing water rushing in, in the darkness. Later in the day yesterday, I had to go into the West End and I was struck that hardly anyone in London was wearing a poppy. I think it's important that the poppy, just as other symbols like the flag, are cherished by everyone, precisely so they do not become "owned" in some way by extremists. 

I get the white poppy for peace thing, but the money from red poppies goes to the Royal British Legion which supports military veterans. My take is that service personnel are often treated appallingly and need our support. They have lived through terrible things that no one should have to, and then are expected to assimilate back into ordinary society - no wonder many have problems. Also, they are sometimes unscrupulously recruited from poorer communities where the only opportunity of social mobility and escape, is to join the services. We probably all hate the politicians who send other people's children off to fight and die in wars, but wouldn't dream of letting their own kids near any danger. But I would say, don't use that as an excuse not to buy a poppy to support those who did go.

Yes it should never be compelled and there should never be peer pressure to make people feel they must comply, but I'm just giving some reasons why I think it's important.

Very well said. The worsted  PM to send the troops to war in my life time so far is Blair, and he will not meet the famlies of the fallen, what a Coward.

[Crewton]

2 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

I live beside the war memorial to the merchant navy, which is effectively my front garden.

I find that place incredibly humbling. Most of those commemorated there were simply doing their usual jobs, but in wartime, bringing vital provisions to Britain and transporting similarly to other countries, including the USSR when they had their backs to the wall. 

[MadAmster]

18 hours ago, SirBrian said:

Netherlands are still so grateful and proud of the allies, for liberating them, sadly our own country do not share the same vibes.

Lest we forget the poppy appeal is to raise funds for ex servicemen and women, who are in need of help, and there are many, if you do not wish to wear a poppy, please put a donation into the tin.

When was the last time England played in red and white the flag colours, this is a total disgrace.

Yes i am an ex serviceman and proud of the flag and country.

Looking after Veterans is important. There was an article I donated auctioned at the Neppy on Sunday.

When I was  kid, England played in white shirts and royal blue shorts

[MadAmster]

15 hours ago, VulcanRam said:

Why, what happened at ten to 3? 

It's about getting to your seat early for the Remembrance game so you don't need to get others moving to let you get to your seat during the silence and its preamble.

It's a thing called respect.

[VulcanRam]

46 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

It's about getting to your seat early for the Remembrance game so you don't need to get others moving to let you get to your seat during the silence and its preamble.

It's a thing called respect.

Oh ok, well I got there as usual at five to, nothing happening so no problem. I know when the remembrance stuff takes place and was in place for the teams coming out and the commemorations. I hope that's ok, but if you want me to get to my seat earlier in future because it suits your agenda, do let me know.

Sorry for the sarcasm and the bite but I can't abide this sort of preachy attitude. 

 

 

[MadAmster]

18 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

Oh ok, well I got there as usual at five to, nothing happening so no problem. I know when the remembrance stuff takes place and was in place for the teams coming out and the commemorations. I hope that's ok, but if you want me to get to my seat earlier in future because it suits your agenda, do let me know.

Sorry for the sarcasm and the bite but I can't abide this sort of preachy attitude. 

 

 

My original post expressed an opinion. You came back with a sarcy reposte. I explained. 

[ariotofmyown]

Royal British Legion helps ex-service people.

Not sure how true it is, but you often hear that a large % of homeless people are ex-military.

But we now know that homelessness is a lifestyle choice.

I hope that the disgusting Royal British Legion don't give any homeless people tents!

As a nation, maybe we could be a little less enthusiastic about all these displays of respect and focus on putting the resources and money into actually helping people.

Really interesting posts from ex-military people on here too, thanks for your thoughts.

[Simmo’s left foot]

Had to smile when I saw this, poppy not allowed due to a perceived slip risk, but several thousand fans standing in a seated area with the seat in front at shin level is fine. 

[YorkshireRam]

22 hours ago, SirBrian said:

When was the last time England played in red and white the flag colours, this is a total disgrace.

Yes i am an ex serviceman and proud of the flag and country.

To answer your question, 2018. Not sure I quite understand why the national team's kit needs to match the flag colours though? Especially since that colourway has historically been associated with the away kit, and the only reason it's not been seen recently is they're trying out matching red shorts. Even then, between the home and away kit, both colours are present, not like they're trying to move away from them?

[SirBrian]

35 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

To answer your question, 2018. Not sure I quite understand why the national team's kit needs to match the flag colours though? Especially since that colourway has historically been associated with the away kit, and the only reason it's not been seen recently is they're trying out matching red shorts. Even then, between the home and away kit, both colours are present, not like they're trying to move away from them?

1966 World Cup red shirt, white shorts, red socks, it is a lovely memory to have witnessed England winning the World Cup.

Almost all countries play there home matches in the colours of there flag, one who does not is Italy, who are the only one i can think of. The fans always turn up to games with red and white flags, hats etc, for myself the team should be in our flag colours at home.

Thank you for finding the date of 2018, wonder if it is woke related, or just money by the greedy FA, via shirt sales.

[Mick Harford]

2 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Not sure how true it is, but you often hear that a large % of homeless people are ex-military.

............

Really interesting posts from ex-military people on here too, thanks for your thoughts.

This is true, to go from having literally everything done for you,/deducted from pay to having to your own stuff out can be a culture shock, sounds weird but that's true.

Also lots of ex Service Personnel at AA, NA and suffer with substance abuse.

The RBL/Poppy Appeal are fantastic and offer all kinds of services from counselling, Care Homes, Training, Networking, physical help, meetings/activities they are even doing cost of living grants.

And if you've drawn one days pay from the Military, then you are eligible for help/support.

It really is a truly fantastic charity.

 

[Mick Harford]

New England kit is R/W/B, no info on shorts though, hope they are navy. I'd like a Red/White/Red away shirt, but as the current away is that then I can't see them keeping the same colour scheme 2 cycles running.

 

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, Mick Harford said:

This is true, to go from having literally everything done for you,/deducted from pay to having to your own stuff out can be a culture shock, sounds weird but that's true.

Also lots of ex Service Personnel at AA, NA and suffer with substance abuse.

The RBL/Poppy Appeal are fantastic and offer all kinds of services from counselling, Care Homes, Training, Networking, physical help, meetings/activities they are even doing cost of living grants.

And if you've drawn one days pay from the Military, then you are eligible for help/support.

It really is a truly fantastic charity.

 

It also feels like ex-service people should not really have to rely on a charity to look after them either. 

I know that could be said of many different charities, but feels like people who have risked their lives for the country should be looked after properly as a given.

[YorkshireRam]

2 hours ago, SirBrian said:

1966 World Cup red shirt, white shorts, red socks, it is a lovely memory to have witnessed England winning the World Cup.

Almost all countries play there home matches in the colours of there flag, one who does not is Italy, who are the only one i can think of. The fans always turn up to games with red and white flags, hats etc, for myself the team should be in our flag colours at home.

Thank you for finding the date of 2018, wonder if it is woke related, or just money by the greedy FA, via shirt sales.

You really think whether the England national team's away shorts are red or white could be ''woke-related''??

Isn't it far more likely to just be Nike trying to create a unique kit that people will buy because it's different than the pre-covid ones? Bear in mind the partial aim of these designs is to sell replicas; when you're trying to get people to buy them year after year, slightly altering the colourway is an easy way of differentiating them to pick up sales...

[LazloW]

2 hours ago, SirBrian said:

1966 World Cup red shirt, white shorts, red socks, it is a lovely memory to have witnessed England winning the World Cup.

Almost all countries play there home matches in the colours of there flag, one who does not is Italy, who are the only one i can think of. The fans always turn up to games with red and white flags, hats etc, for myself the team should be in our flag colours at home.

Thank you for finding the date of 2018, wonder if it is woke related, or just money by the greedy FA, via shirt sales.

Not a lot of orange in Holland’s flag. No green in Northern Ireland’s flag.  Germany play in predominantly white but no white in their flag…. And that was giving it 60 second’s thought. I’m sure there are many others.  I’m not really sure what point you weee making but probably not a very good, or accurate one? There will be lots of reasons for different colours being used and unlikely anything to do with being ‘woke’ (whatever that means in this context).

 

 

[TuffLuff]

I’m generally quite curious about this on Saturday, but I do wonder where the organisers had seen this display before, because I was only aware of Rangers ever doing it. A quick search shows Leicester did it once too, but wouldn’t it be slightly dodgy territory considering why Rangers might do it in the first place. Im sure those organising had the best of intentions but I do hope they thought about this thinking it would look good. 

Also yeah, H&S gone mad and whatever, but I’m kinda glad we didn’t have a load of plastic about with no way of thinking how it would be disposed (as this wasn’t communicated I’m presuming here admittedly). It probably would be a slip hazard on a damp day, but if they won’t biodegrade then it’s a bit of waste considering they will be single use. 

The whole thing to me seemed a bit ill thought out by all involved and hope there’s lessons learnt all round. Obviously we want good, positive things that contribute to our atmosphere, and I’m sure those involved in organising had good intentions, but also I think the club are pretty good themselves at marking remembrance weekend and there was other things that money could have gone to.

Edited November 13, 2023 by TuffLuff

[GboroRam]

2 hours ago, SirBrian said:

1966 World Cup red shirt, white shorts, red socks, it is a lovely memory to have witnessed England winning the World Cup.

Almost all countries play there home matches in the colours of there flag, one who does not is Italy, who are the only one i can think of. The fans always turn up to games with red and white flags, hats etc, for myself the team should be in our flag colours at home.

Thank you for finding the date of 2018, wonder if it is woke related, or just money by the greedy FA, via shirt sales.

Carry on waging war over the woke flags, fantastic stuff.