That Conor Washington Fella

[RoyMac5]

9 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

He's been very average to below average so far so let's not get carried away, but last night was a much better performance from him. Let's hope that's the real Washington. Deserves to keep his starting place for Sunday.

Could it be that we played it to feet and didn't just have him running the channels? No blame is meant anywhere and I hardly dare ask obvs.

[Day]

1 minute ago, TomTom92 said:

Define good person? 
 
I imagine Taraabt at QPR was a pain in the arse but he single handedly fired them up. Now he may be an exception and whilst I agree that team spirit is important, i don’t think our summer business was as good as it should’ve been. Whether that’s on recruitment or Warne is pure speculation.

Do we really need to define a good person in terms of a footballer in a dressing room? I thought that would be kinda obvious.

Some managers take a risk on these grenades, otherwise the grenades of the game wouldn't ever be signed. Rooney gave Ravel an opportunity and that paid off for him.

I listen to Undr The Cosh podcast and many have been on and spoke about rules not applying to certain players and yeah it paid off.

Myself in Warne's position, wouldn't touch them with a barge pole and I can fully understand why Warne wouldn't want to take the risk either.

You have to remember, he's been given a 4 year deal, for him he has that comfort to build a team he wants, this is a boom or bust take the gamble season.

 

[S8TY]

When Collins came on last night the ball was passed to Wilson or Ward I can’t remember who was in the rwb position few yards into there half …Collins turned and run into the area …encouraging an aimless punt into the box …Washington mixed it up and came short drawing defenders with him and occasionally looked for a longer ball 

On last nights performance Washington has more variation to his game therefore starts ahead of Collins ….no brainer 

[jimtastic56]

I thought Washington was good last night . His work ethic put the Cobblers to shame and made them look downright lazy . He was even popping up to help fullbacks out.Although he only got 5 goals for Rotherham in the Champ last season , he got 22 in 71 games for Charlton at this level. Hope he keeps it up. 

[VulcanRam]

13 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Could it be that we played it to feet and didn't just have him running the channels? No blame is meant anywhere and I hardly dare ask obvs.

Yes, maybe and possibly. Equally, he was allowed to do whatever he wanted as for the first half it was the equivalent of a training game. We didn't need to play it into the channels because everyone was unmarked all the time. Will we have the courage to do the same against better teams?

[TomTom92]

11 minutes ago, David said:

Do we really need to define a good person in terms of a footballer in a dressing room? I thought that would be kinda obvious.

Some managers take a risk on these grenades, otherwise the grenades of the game wouldn't ever be signed. Rooney gave Ravel an opportunity and that paid off for him.

I listen to Undr The Cosh podcast and many have been on and spoke about rules not applying to certain players and yeah it paid off.

Myself in Warne's position, wouldn't touch them with a barge pole and I can fully understand why Warne wouldn't want to take the risk either.

You have to remember, he's been given a 4 year deal, for him he has that comfort to build a team he wants, this is a boom or bust take the gamble season.

 

Maybe easier to play it safe if you have money to throw at it. Seeing as we don’t, maybe a couple of risks especially in the final third might have been worth it. 
 
Warne must be confident to believe he’ll still be here in 4 years. Plan for the here and now and let the academy manager think of the future. 
 
Famous last words but if we go up with the 4 strikers currently on our books under Warne’s stewardship then I’ll be astounded.

[VulcanRam]

40 minutes ago, David said:

Is insisting they are a good person a bad thing?

You don't want to throw a ticking time bomb into the dressing room surely, regardless of individual talent. 

It's got to be number 2 on the checklist.

1) Can we afford him

2) Are they a good person

3) Are they good enough for the team

Probably goes more in depth than that, but yeah, good person is super important. 

A good character is important but no way would I put it ahead of a player's impact on the team.

The job of this manager is to put together and manage a team to get promoted. Limiting that to nice guys ahead of football capability might make your job easier (or not as has been apparent), but would I want a bit of a dick if he was likely to score 30 goals? Absolutely I would, and it would be my job to manage him and his behaviour.

I really hope we've not lost decent players, better than the ones we have, because they're not deemed to be a good enough person. 

[Day]

1 hour ago, VulcanRam said:

A good character is important but no way would I put it ahead of a player's impact on the team.

The job of this manager is to put together and manage a team to get promoted. Limiting that to nice guys ahead of football capability might make your job easier (or not as has been apparent), but would I want a bit of a dick if he was likely to score 30 goals? Absolutely I would, and it would be my job to manage him and his behaviour.

I really hope we've not lost decent players, better than the ones we have, because they're not deemed to be a good enough person. 

Fair enough, I mean it's a personal choice which can't be wrong or disagreed with.

Some would, some wouldn't. I would imagine it will be close to a 50/50 split.

For me the job is difficult enough as it is to be dealing when a footballer's tantrum/demands. 

[oodledoodle]

Fantastic debut last night. Begs the question, why hasn't he played before?

[Magicman]

2 minutes ago, oodledoodle said:

Fantastic debut last night. Begs the question, why hasn't he played before?

Who ? 

[oodledoodle]

12 minutes ago, Magicman said:

Who ? 

Washington.

[Magicman]

5 minutes ago, oodledoodle said:

Washington.

 

5 minutes ago, oodledoodle said:

Washington.

He has played before .... 15 times this season. 

[oodledoodle]

2 minutes ago, Magicman said:

 

He has played before .... 15 times this season. 

Pretty sure I'd have noticed a player like that if he'd played before.

[Ellafella]

4 hours ago, David said:

Just on that Rotherham thing, you know when you create a topic and later think why didn't I say that at the time? Maybe trying to avoid an essay, who knows but....

I never quite understood the turning up the nose of any Rotherham player that was linked, with any signing all background checks on their character on and off the pitch, if work hard in training etc. is all gathered by references, via third parties.

What's better than previously working with a player and wanting to bring them with you?

I can only put it down to that we're bigger and better than Rotherham to be signing any of their players, which kind of ignores the current league status of both clubs, or is it a Warne = crap so Rotherham players = crap assumption?

Don't get me wrong, there is a limit to how many former players you can bring before it looks like you're recreating Rotherham at Derby and that has to be a worry, this wasn't the case. As we've seen today with the Eustace link, these former connection links are always made, can't go bursting blood vessels over each one.

It's funny really as when Lampard was here everyone was asking where all the Chelsea superstar youngsters were, like Mount and Tomori were never here.

We're not too big for Rotherham players, need to lose that snobbery as he looks a useful player for us that many appear to be warming to now.

You're quite right @David but it isn't just an element of snobbery. I can expand (Oh May-tron! etc). 

1. Initially, I have been underwhelmed with PW's transfer business. Admittedly, as has been debated, we don't know the detail {budget-constraints, EFL cap, mal-influence of agents, state of the market etc} but nevertheless underwhelmed. Apart from pre-season Stoke and last night, Sonny Bradley looked "shot/jelly-legs" and accident prone. Elder, injured and invisible when played. Ward, not mobile. Fornah I like and he has a future, but J-J injured. Nelson looked iffy to begin with (but now a tank) and Washington initially looked quite mobile but off the pace still and with no obvious skill-set above being a squad-man. Last night Washington looked 15 yards quicker; that drop of the shoulder as he outpaced their defender was sublime, an expression from a footballer very much "in the zone" and his finish proved it. Was it a flash-in-the-pan - we'll see. 

2. So the "Rotherham" thing was a question-mark about PW's horizon really; not an expression of snobbery {though there may be that from some fans}. Some, including myself, have questioned whether Warne has been somewhat institutionalised by his Rotherham background and that he may have a tendency not to see beyond what he experienced/learned and believes as a result. His outward appreciation of Steve Evans last week {not a problem per se} was also a Rotherham link but in hindsight not good given what his team then did to us; His warm-words then looked obsequious and starry-eyed especially given the view that most fans have of Steve Evans from his rather "Neanderthal" dealings with Nigel Clough. 

3. Having been a big supporter of PW, my jury is now out and it is since Stevanage ; last night really helped me to begin to re-evaluate again and more consistent displays of good team-based football playing through midfield will put PW back in with me. 

4. That said - I don't like to hear PW say words to the effect of "fans must accept and "get real" that Derby County is a mid-table Third Division side". That and words to that effect obviously suit his agenda of building realism but are very ill-advised to use because it implies that he is accepting of that deep down when he is the one chap who should, of all the people in Pride Park stadium, least accept it and convey to the players that being a mid-table 3rd division side is NOT at all acceptable.  Again, it implies that his horizons don't extend beyond 45.5 miles north of Derby. Derby County is a big club, with a huge history and has a defining place in the history of football in England. It's not conceited to say it, and to lead it in 2023 requires a Big Club mentality. I have questioned of late, if PW has a big enough "vision" to understand that. In contrast, I warmly remember a young, handsome Peter Taylor, circa 1968/9 looking in to the camera and saying "I'm Peter Taylor and I'm going to the very top with Brian Clough and Derby County". He didn't say "Derby County fans must realise that they are a mid-table 2nd Division side and wind their necks in because I'm not used to being criticized, because back in Rotherham I won 3 promotions and they think I'm Pep". 

It's a privilege and an honour to manage Derby County; the current atmosphere of tension is actually positive if it drives the Club/team forward - and it can be the catalyst short-term to do that. If it produces more games like last night, then it will have been a very healthy week indeed.  

  

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Ellafella

[Magicman]

20 minutes ago, oodledoodle said:

Pretty sure I'd have noticed a player like that if he'd played before.

Check the Rams website 15 games 3 goals 1 assist ... then go to Specsavers 😂

[Mucker1884]

Any Rams fan who considers the likes of Rotherham as being "beneath us" should remember (or read up on) previous dealings with the likes of Bradford Park Avenue, Halifax Town, Durham City, and Nuneaton Borough, to name a few... before giving their heads a wobble!

 

 

[Rich3478]

Have been really underwhelmed with him personally, however by all accounts was excellent last night! Am all for it. 
 

Was a very well taken goal.

[IslandExile]

He played well and took his goal well - certainly in a more composed manner than NML who, in a similar position, just blazed it high and wide.

However the assist for Washington's goal has to go to the Northampton defenders who parted like the waves.

As enjoyable as last night was, I am still struggling to get over just how poor the Cobblers lot were..... Very poor.

[vonwright]

6 hours ago, David said:

Just on that Rotherham thing, you know when you create a topic and later think why didn't I say that at the time? Maybe trying to avoid an essay, who knows but....

I never quite understood the turning up the nose of any Rotherham player that was linked, with any signing all background checks on their character on and off the pitch, if work hard in training etc. is all gathered by references, via third parties.

What's better than previously working with a player and wanting to bring them with you?

I can only put it down to that we're bigger and better than Rotherham to be signing any of their players, which kind of ignores the current league status of both clubs, or is it a Warne = crap so Rotherham players = crap assumption?

Don't get me wrong, there is a limit to how many former players you can bring before it looks like you're recreating Rotherham at Derby and that has to be a worry, this wasn't the case. As we've seen today with the Eustace link, these former connection links are always made, can't go bursting blood vessels over each one.

It's funny really as when Lampard was here everyone was asking where all the Chelsea superstar youngsters were, like Mount and Tomori were never here.

We're not too big for Rotherham players, need to lose that snobbery as he looks a useful player for us that many appear to be warming to now.

The question when someone goes back to their old club - particularly when they do it time after time - is whether they are using their connections to get us something better than we could otherwise get for the same money (which is good!)**, or whether they are being lazy/conservative/have terrible scouting and saddling us with something worse that we could have got for the same money (which is bad).

In general I imagine the wider you cast your net, the more likely you are a catch a good one. 

I'm personally reserving judgement on Washington for a bit because he's not got a stellar record, and he hasn't looked great before last night. But yes: really good performance, gave us something different (and something we need), fingers crossed its the start of a impressive run against good defences as well as bad ones.

My controversial take on "character" in football is that it's a bit overblown, largely because the 5% of bad characters get a lot more than 5% of the headlines. I think most professional players - if they are well coached and managed - aren't going to be a problem, particularly at this level. In which case, ability beats character nine times out of ten.

**Or in the case of Mount or Tomori, something that we would never have been able to get at all.

Edited November 1, 2023 by vonwright

[TheTinMan]

My issue with Wash is he hasn't been fit until recently which isn't necessarily his fault its Warne's and the recruitment side. Why was a player who was so short on fitness a priority signing? Same with Bradley. Its set us back months into the season and was obvious from very early on in the season when Wash didn't feature during pre-season. Northampton were very poor, like couldn't even be bothered poor not just lack of talent. One of the worst sides I've ever seen us play against.