Joey Barton sacked

[Ram-Alf]

28 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

Humans are garbage, and too prone to accept the laws and ways of the land even when it is clear to see they are horrifically biased. Sadly, this is still inherently true today.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, Returning ram said:

As I alluded to earlier, when I moan about them, the response I get (in addition to say I moan about everything), is what difference does it make to me and that football is about opinions and if therefore she (my daughter) hasn't played at this level, would hers not count or be wrong ?
 

She would agree and she plays, that women's football is nowhere near the standard of the men's, she would also never watch the women's as she doesn't like it, however asking her if a male or female commentator is better, the response is, what does it matter and why ask that in the first place ?

The thing is, your daughter is not being paid to give, what should be, an expert opinion. 

As I said in another post, whether people like it or dislike it will be reflected in viewing numbers.

Personally, I turned off from most televised football a long time ago because I don't like pundits full stop.

[Mucker1884]

1 hour ago, Alty_Ram said:

... Perhaps I should have a word with my bosses and demand that they keep women out of my department in case any of them are overwhelmed with desire on account of me being so attractive and all ? I'm a line manager don't you know !

I hear you buddy. 👍

... Nearly midday, and the fluffy mare hasn't lifted a finger as yet...

[Returning ram]

4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

The thing is, your daughter is not being paid to give, what should be, an expert opinion. 

As I said in another post, whether people like it or dislike it will be reflected in viewing numbers.

Personally, I turned off from most televised football a long time ago because I don't like pundits full stop.

So what are you determining as an expert opinion, someone who has played the game at what level ?
 

Richard keys, Chappers for example, both made successful careers out of football media yet are they expert's, did we have the same outcry for them ?
 

For me, they are being paid to entertain the viewer, which going back to my original point, has changed and is no longer male dominated, therefore I'm not sure I get the problem and even though I don't like it, I totally understand the need for it.

[YorkshireRam]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Nope, its called an opinion.

Do you have any hard evidence that they are there on merit and not just for filling quotas?

If not....actually I won't even bother going there 😂

The burden of proof is on you here if you're making the assertion that their inclusion is purely tokenistic.

You don't need to be an ex-pro to be a good pundit. It isn't usually down to experience, it's down to preparation. Personal insight can be useful, but most pundits don't know how to weave it into commentary effectively, which sort of negates gender as an important factor in whether someone does a good job.

I'm not a huge fan of Fara William's punditry, but I am of Courtney Sweetman-Kirk's. Fara William's earlier inclusion in BBC programming will be part of the reason I get to hear from CSK, which is a positive for me. Without equality of opportunity, meritocracy isn't the fairly-weighted system it's described as being, and sometimes that needs to be forced a little bit to change overall for the better.

 

[G STAR RAM]

21 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

The burden of proof is on you here if you're making the assertion that their inclusion is purely tokenistic.

You don't need to be an ex-pro to be a good pundit. It isn't usually down to experience, it's down to preparation. Personal insight can be useful, but most pundits don't know how to weave it into commentary effectively, which sort of negates gender as an important factor in whether someone does a good job.

I'm not a huge fan of Fara William's punditry, but I am of Courtney Sweetman-Kirk's. Fara William's earlier inclusion in BBC programming will be part of the reason I get to hear from CSK, which is a positive for me. Without equality of opportunity, meritocracy isn't the fairly-weighted system it's described as being, and sometimes that needs to be forced a little bit to change overall for the better.

Well obviously its not something that can be proved, I think just applying common sense and looking at what's before you will give you the answer though. 

[YorkshireRam]

4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Well obviously its not something that can be proved, I think just applying common sense and looking at what's before you will give you the answer though. 

''What's before'' was a generational playing talent in Alan Hansen saying ''you'll never win anything with kids'' and then getting proved wrong repeatedly... I want tactical and analytical insight, you don't need to be an ex-pro to provide that. I've heard more of it from Alex Scott than I ever did from Mark Lawrenson- so you also don't need to be a man to provide it. You just have to know the game. 

[Mucker1884]

13 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

the other problem is, people are too quick to say ‘I didn’t get that job, some black lady with one arm got it because they had to tick a box, I’m against positive discrimination.’ It doesn’t work like that. The black lady with one arm is just better at the job, but people are too willing to blame society for their own deficiencies.

Maybe she was the best qualified ("on paper")?
Maybe she had more actual/real life on-the-job experience in her field?
Maybe she was the only candidate without halitosis?
Maybe she was the only Rams fan amongst the candidates?
Or the most polite?
Or maybe she was the only "black lady with one arm" to have applied?

Only those dishing out the job would know how true your statement was, and yet you deliver it as if it's fact... for all vacancies the world over!  But it is no more fact than many other opinions on here.

I strongly suspect (imo!) some folk are as quick to claim the post has been given purely on merit, as there are those who are "too quick to say "I didn’t get that job, some black lady with one arm got it because they had to tick a box, I’m against positive discrimination."

I'm not naïve enough to assume that all the employed one armed black ladies in the world are employed for the right reason... whatever the "right reason" may be!  

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, YorkshireRam said:

''What's before'' was a generational playing talent in Alan Hansen saying ''you'll never win anything with kids'' and then getting proved wrong repeatedly... I want tactical and analytical insight, you don't need to be an ex-pro to provide that. I've heard more of it from Alex Scott than I ever did from Mark Lawrenson- so you also don't need to be a man to provide it. You just have to know the game. 

I meant look whats before you on your screens...

Agreed re Hansen and Lawrenson, both awful.

[Stive Pesley]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Agreed re Hansen and Lawrenson, both awful.

Hansen was only ever hired as a box-ticking exercise to ensure representation of Scottish pundits

Ditto Lawrenson for Irish pundits

Makes you sick eh?

[ram59]

Many ex-pro male footballers are being paid extortionate sums of our money to talk absolute rubbish and/or state the bloody obvious. I tend to watch MOTD from a recording and fast forward through the so called experts. We are expected to value their opinions because of their successful careers, but we've seen very few top players become top managers, likewise becoming top pundits.

I could recommend one person to be a top pundit, she is a female and didn't play football to a high level I believe, but talks more sense than most of the ex-pros, so step forward......

 

 

ANGIERAM

[G STAR RAM]

36 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Hansen was only ever hired as a box-ticking exercise to ensure representation of Scottish pundits

Ditto Lawrenson for Irish pundits

Makes you sick eh?

As I'm sure you're aware, both played at the top level of MENS football during the 80s.

When their views became outdated and irrelevant to the modern game they were cast aside, but at least they were relevant and a point in time.

I daresay the same would happen to Lineker had he not joined in with the box ticking. 

[TigerTedd]

Ultimately, the great decider is the ratings. If the ratings tank, then the producers will change the pundits and presenters. If the ratings continue, then they won’t. Maybe there’s just not enough men that are bothered enough to switch off, but lots of women are bothered enough to switch on, so the ratings go up. Joey Barton is a vocal minority. But maybe the majority don’t actually mind, or care. 

[G STAR RAM]

15 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

Ultimately, the great decider is the ratings. If the ratings tank, then the producers will change the pundits and presenters. If the ratings continue, then they won’t. Maybe there’s just not enough men that are bothered enough to switch off, but lots of women are bothered enough to switch on, so the ratings go up. Joey Barton is a vocal minority. But maybe the majority don’t actually mind, or care. 

Id say its just as likely that there are a large number of people with the same view as Barton but they are sensible and realise airing their view isn't worth the repercussions. 

[AndyinLiverpool]

10 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Id say its just as likely that there are a large number of people with the same view as Barton but they are sensible and realise airing their view isn't worth the repercussions. 

'repercussions' - you mean having your feelings hurt on a football forum?

[G STAR RAM]

5 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

'repercussions' - you mean having your feelings hurt on a football forum?

No, I'm talking about famous people who would no doubt have the usual pile on.

[TigerTedd]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Id say its just as likely that there are a large number of people with the same view as Barton but they are sensible and realise airing their view isn't worth the repercussions. 

Point still stands though, as long as the ratings are up, the producers are happy. And it certainly implies that the majority of the viewers are happy. Don’t like it, don’t watch it. 

[Seaside Ram]

2024 😳

Just get me back to 1984 !! 😃

[Anag Ram]

10 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Id say its just as likely that there are a large number of people with the same view as Barton but they are sensible and realise airing their view isn't worth the repercussions. 

The same view perhaps in feeling that equality has become tokenism but surely only Barton has the headspace for the kind of ill-informed vitriol he has produced?

I’m worried about his mental health and what he might do next.

[Gaspode]

9 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

Point still stands though, as long as the ratings are up, the producers are happy. And it certainly implies that the majority of the viewers are happy. Don’t like it, don’t watch it. 

There were reports before Christmas that the Beeb are considering ditching Football Focus due to a huge drop in viewers - I wouldn't hazard to guess what have may prompted this sheedding of the traditional audience...